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Asperger's may change in new manual
- Thread starter whyborn
- Start date
I know! this is horrible
*sorry for the short post, my computer...grub bootloader. that's all I have to say xD
gamers1700
Well-Known Member
I don't think this will stick for some reason, there's already enough differences as it is the autistic spectrum. Kind of seems like what they did with Schizophrenia though (it was a broader range of disorders at one time, right? I can't remember) if I remember correctly so I guess there's arguments for both sides (in which I mean it shows they're not above it. I think it's just to create an easier platform for diagnosis.
I think it might be an idea to see if there's some sort of petition going on on other aspie sites, though I don't have an account on any other but Psych Forums. Can someone check this out?
*edit*
CNN on the proposed DSM changes
Official DSM website page stating the proposals
Oh here's something interesting. I think I would have been diagnosed with psychosis risk syndrome, but have since managed my way out of it. I highly suspect that I was bipolar too tbh, but I've developed strategies to avoid the same problems those that are bipolar seem to suffer from. I think it's mostly about perspective to be frank, but I'm drifting off topic here. :whistle:
Proposed Asperger's subsume page
I think it might be an idea to see if there's some sort of petition going on on other aspie sites, though I don't have an account on any other but Psych Forums. Can someone check this out?
*edit*
CNN on the proposed DSM changes
Official DSM website page stating the proposals
Oh here's something interesting. I think I would have been diagnosed with psychosis risk syndrome, but have since managed my way out of it. I highly suspect that I was bipolar too tbh, but I've developed strategies to avoid the same problems those that are bipolar seem to suffer from. I think it's mostly about perspective to be frank, but I'm drifting off topic here. :whistle:
Proposed Asperger's subsume page
krisi
Well-Known Member
As far as I can recall, in my four years of studying communication disorders, Asperger's was under the same category as autism: as a Pervasive Development Disorder, or Autism Spectrum Disorder. However, all PDD's (ASD's) were somewhat interrelated, including Rett's syndrome and Childhood Degenerative Disorder (both of which are far more bleak diagnoses than autism). I believe the reason for that grouping were the qualitative psychological similarities of AS, Autism, CDD, Rett's, and PDD-NOS (Pervasive Development Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified). In other words, a diagnosis of any of these meant that you were on the Autism Spectrum, but it did not mean that you had "classic autism."
Also, one qualitative difference, used for differential diagnosis of Autism, AS, and PDD-NOS was that a person who has AS has had NO UNACCOUNTED FOR LANGUAGE DELAY. (i.e., if you had ear infections while you were little that resulted in language or phonology (speech sound) delay, you still could be diagnosed with AS rather than Autism or PDD-NOS, but if your language was delayed without any known reason, AS would not likely be the diagnosis). If we lose the diagnostic difference between Asperger's and Autism, children who have AS and need services may not get the right kind of services, and become frustrated at working at a level far below their capacity, especially when it comes to language.
However, if what they are saying is that Asperger's, as it's own diagnosis, would be listed under "Autism Spectrum Disorders" rather than listed in isolation, or under "Emotional Behavioral Disorders/Disturbances", then I think it is a move in the right direction. I would rather be seen as a subgroup of "high functioning autistic" than "emotionally and behaviorally disturbed." I am not as familiar with the DSM as I should be, so I don't know how they are currently listed. I only know the groupings of language impairments that I have been taught, and Speech-Language Pathologists don't necessarily work from the DSM.
Also, one qualitative difference, used for differential diagnosis of Autism, AS, and PDD-NOS was that a person who has AS has had NO UNACCOUNTED FOR LANGUAGE DELAY. (i.e., if you had ear infections while you were little that resulted in language or phonology (speech sound) delay, you still could be diagnosed with AS rather than Autism or PDD-NOS, but if your language was delayed without any known reason, AS would not likely be the diagnosis). If we lose the diagnostic difference between Asperger's and Autism, children who have AS and need services may not get the right kind of services, and become frustrated at working at a level far below their capacity, especially when it comes to language.
However, if what they are saying is that Asperger's, as it's own diagnosis, would be listed under "Autism Spectrum Disorders" rather than listed in isolation, or under "Emotional Behavioral Disorders/Disturbances", then I think it is a move in the right direction. I would rather be seen as a subgroup of "high functioning autistic" than "emotionally and behaviorally disturbed." I am not as familiar with the DSM as I should be, so I don't know how they are currently listed. I only know the groupings of language impairments that I have been taught, and Speech-Language Pathologists don't necessarily work from the DSM.
gamers1700
Well-Known Member
I concur, being Canadian and all. But really, how long would it take to trickle through?
To be honest I don't think it would over here. I know someone (who's son has AS) that runs F.A.C.T Northants - an Aspergers charity around where I live. She says we don't need to worry about DSM and that they wouldn't merge Aspergers with Autism and get rid of the diagnoses completely.
I hope she's right.
gamers1700
Well-Known Member
Well, if there was ever was something to unite the Aspie websites, this would be it. I think after further research this would seem like something that could rally pretty well everyone if it isn't a favorable step.
Emor
Well-Known Member
The ICD sucks. Sorry. It needs to be said.
Anyway.
I personally think it's a good thing. I didn't bother reading Gamers' arguments because I know he doesn't agree on diagnostic criteria at all so I don't see why it would make any difference on what he said, and I do, and I don't think neither of us will change each other's mind.
Just because you don't like the negative connotation that comes with Autism('cause anything that ends with syndrome doesn't, right?) doesn't mean you don't have it or aren't on the spectrum.
I just think it's stupid people think such trivial things like people's ignorance should influence a reputable diagnostic manual like the DSM.
Oh yeah. BTW. In the ICD, AS is already classed as an ASD.
It's just that in the DSM it's classed as a PDD.
So why people are saying you've got it better off outside of the US(fyi, a lot of diagnosticians use the ICD anyway), IDK.
They're also removing PDD-NOS, which I think is good because it's simply not specific enough.
Seriously, there's a lot of flaws in the DSM when it comes to AS(the criteria is like 10 years old), for example, it's listed as a child-hood disorder, IIRC, which obviously isn't true.
But yeah. I think they're going the right way.
HFA and AS are the same thing. They were just discovered at two different times by two different people. The only difference in diagnostic criteria really is the speech and language delay, which a lot who claim to be Aspie here have anyway.
I just think the name Asperger's should be recognised as another term for HFA. Rather than being an obsolete term. Because we've got too much recognition. A lot better than Autism- which is terribly misrepresented.
EMZ=]
Anyway.
I personally think it's a good thing. I didn't bother reading Gamers' arguments because I know he doesn't agree on diagnostic criteria at all so I don't see why it would make any difference on what he said, and I do, and I don't think neither of us will change each other's mind.
Just because you don't like the negative connotation that comes with Autism('cause anything that ends with syndrome doesn't, right?) doesn't mean you don't have it or aren't on the spectrum.
I just think it's stupid people think such trivial things like people's ignorance should influence a reputable diagnostic manual like the DSM.
Oh yeah. BTW. In the ICD, AS is already classed as an ASD.
It's just that in the DSM it's classed as a PDD.
So why people are saying you've got it better off outside of the US(fyi, a lot of diagnosticians use the ICD anyway), IDK.
They're also removing PDD-NOS, which I think is good because it's simply not specific enough.
Seriously, there's a lot of flaws in the DSM when it comes to AS(the criteria is like 10 years old), for example, it's listed as a child-hood disorder, IIRC, which obviously isn't true.
But yeah. I think they're going the right way.
HFA and AS are the same thing. They were just discovered at two different times by two different people. The only difference in diagnostic criteria really is the speech and language delay, which a lot who claim to be Aspie here have anyway.
I just think the name Asperger's should be recognised as another term for HFA. Rather than being an obsolete term. Because we've got too much recognition. A lot better than Autism- which is terribly misrepresented.
EMZ=]
gamers1700
Well-Known Member
Emor, I never said that this was for certain a bad thing. I haven't really had the drive to read up on all the proposed changes so I merely stated that once I know more about them I'll decide on what I think. From what I gathered they're going on the 'scientific' route, but are not considering the negatives, like people possibly getting frustrated due to way too easy work in modified classes, gov't support issues (if applicable), self identity concerns, that sort of thing.
How about getting low self esteem because you are treated like you're retarded but really, you are normal, or worse, above average. It's not just FRUSTRATION at too easy work. It's HUMILIATION and ANGER too, that someone would treat you like a low-functioning head-banger when you're a high-functioning Aspie who can build his own server or whatever.
Emor
Well-Known Member
And I meant from our previous debate/argument/w.e on the shoutbox. You said you didn't agree with diagnostic criteria, so I don't see why anything that happens in the DSM would matter to you, so I didn't bother reading your post.
TBH. I find it hard to comprehend why people are bashing people with other disorders when we're on a support forum for a disorder :S.
And a lot of people who have PPD-NOS, Ana, are actually mentally retarded. That's the problem with it. It's too broad and unspecific. I personally hate the diagnosis because it leaves parents where they started, with no real diagnosis.
'Child-hood disorder NOS' is the worse though.
EMZ=]
TBH. I find it hard to comprehend why people are bashing people with other disorders when we're on a support forum for a disorder :S.
And a lot of people who have PPD-NOS, Ana, are actually mentally retarded. That's the problem with it. It's too broad and unspecific. I personally hate the diagnosis because it leaves parents where they started, with no real diagnosis.
'Child-hood disorder NOS' is the worse though.
EMZ=]
I don't think that there is anything wrong with Aspergers being recognized as a separate condition/syndrome. There is a negative connotation attached to the word "Autism" and most associate it with being very low-functioning. Or, at best, with being like the Dustin Hoffman character in "Rain Man". If we want to separate HFA and Aspergers, I'd like to see HFA given a cool name. The lack of a cool name is probably a big part of the reason why some people who most likely have HFA are so keen to identify ourselves as Aspies.
If I look at the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers vs the diagnostic criteria for HFA, I pretty much fit all of the criteria for HFA (especially the language/speech delay and the poor gross motor skills). And yet I very much think and act like, and have similar problems to, those who are definitely Aspies.
So now that I've got the differences sorted out, I can say with about 99% certainty that my youngest brother is an Aspie. One dead giveaway is that he has recently started "diagnosing" random people as having mild Aspergers, so I suspect that he has tweaked onto it as well. As a kid I think he had the biggest private collection of herbs in Australia (not the smoking kind before anyone asks), an enormous glasshouse full of them. And he was obsessed with Citroen cars, which were far from common in Australia. He did a lot better in the structured environment of academia than I ever could, he scored in the 99.6th percentile in his final exams in High School, he had an academic scholarship and finished his masters degree. But whereas I've done well (at times) in the workforce, he (at 40 this year) is still thinking about perhaps getting a job some day. He picks up languages with ease, whereas I have never managed to pick up more than a few words even when working in non-English speaking countries for years at an end. I think that there is plenty of room for the two of us to be classified as having separate syndromes... although both syndromes having the same or similar genetic trigger/link is obviously pretty likely.
If I look at the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers vs the diagnostic criteria for HFA, I pretty much fit all of the criteria for HFA (especially the language/speech delay and the poor gross motor skills). And yet I very much think and act like, and have similar problems to, those who are definitely Aspies.
So now that I've got the differences sorted out, I can say with about 99% certainty that my youngest brother is an Aspie. One dead giveaway is that he has recently started "diagnosing" random people as having mild Aspergers, so I suspect that he has tweaked onto it as well. As a kid I think he had the biggest private collection of herbs in Australia (not the smoking kind before anyone asks), an enormous glasshouse full of them. And he was obsessed with Citroen cars, which were far from common in Australia. He did a lot better in the structured environment of academia than I ever could, he scored in the 99.6th percentile in his final exams in High School, he had an academic scholarship and finished his masters degree. But whereas I've done well (at times) in the workforce, he (at 40 this year) is still thinking about perhaps getting a job some day. He picks up languages with ease, whereas I have never managed to pick up more than a few words even when working in non-English speaking countries for years at an end. I think that there is plenty of room for the two of us to be classified as having separate syndromes... although both syndromes having the same or similar genetic trigger/link is obviously pretty likely.
Ruby_Aspergic
Well-Known Member
My doctor explained this to me on Monday, and he said all these disorders are already considered to be on the autistic spectrum, and now rather than having separate disorders for different severities they are just going to have different severities of the same disorder-- autism.
I resent that someone said, "I don't want someone to think I'm a retard!" I have HFA, and I am not even remotely a "retard." My IQ is in the very superior range, I attend a top 20 university, and I am so high functioning that my disorder went unnoticed until into my 20's and nobody would have ever discovered it had I not figured it out myself. The idea would not be to merge you with severe autistics, but to merge you with the other high functioners on the autism spectrum. I got the HFA diagnosis despite not having had a speech delay. Some doctors make that the defining point, some do not-- mine considered other types of behaviors in the communication category of symptoms that I did have even if I hadn't had the speech delay. These discrepancies in diagnostic practices are part of the reason they want to simplify the diagnosis. If your only argument is that you don't want people to think you're retarded, that makes NO SENSE because people with HFA aren't retarded, either. They are pretty much the same as you.
"There is a negative connotation attached to the word "Autism" and most associate it with being very low-functioning."
Which is COMPLETELY FALSE. Do we want our doctors making medical decisions based on completely false assumptions made by the public? I don't think that serves us well at all.
I resent that someone said, "I don't want someone to think I'm a retard!" I have HFA, and I am not even remotely a "retard." My IQ is in the very superior range, I attend a top 20 university, and I am so high functioning that my disorder went unnoticed until into my 20's and nobody would have ever discovered it had I not figured it out myself. The idea would not be to merge you with severe autistics, but to merge you with the other high functioners on the autism spectrum. I got the HFA diagnosis despite not having had a speech delay. Some doctors make that the defining point, some do not-- mine considered other types of behaviors in the communication category of symptoms that I did have even if I hadn't had the speech delay. These discrepancies in diagnostic practices are part of the reason they want to simplify the diagnosis. If your only argument is that you don't want people to think you're retarded, that makes NO SENSE because people with HFA aren't retarded, either. They are pretty much the same as you.
"There is a negative connotation attached to the word "Autism" and most associate it with being very low-functioning."
Which is COMPLETELY FALSE. Do we want our doctors making medical decisions based on completely false assumptions made by the public? I don't think that serves us well at all.
C
Chris
Guest
If it's not broken don't fix it, I'm content with a diagnosis of Aspergers. Although ASD's are on the same spectrum, I don't think it's fair to just classify them as 'autism' with levels of severity, since the range of effects and traits autism can portray are so wide.
Ruby_Aspergic
Well-Known Member
If it's not form of autism, why is it on the spectrum at all?
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