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Aspies and Unwritten Rules

Sportster said:
Ah, (sigh of relief) my point is understood. Yes, I was hoping to compare notes, not rehash a poker game from thirty years ago. One thing about that, is perhaps I should entertain gambling as a vocation since I did so well my first and only time out.:rolleyes:
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These days if someone seriously quoted "unwritten rules" to me, I think I'd burst out laughing.

Really. ;)
 
Sportster said:
True. I think the problem I have, are those things in life that elicit the response, "Don't you know you [should/shouldn't] . . ." I wish I could explain it better. Frankly, I'd be thankful to hear what the unwritten rules are so I can decide whether or not I wish to obey them rather than find out later that I "shouldn't leave the freakin' poker game early.":confused:
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I suspect you're onto something well beyond just poker. Perhaps you or others can come up with very different scenarios involving other alleged social conventions that some people may claim to be "universal" that may- or may not be.

Things that may or may not be obviously within the realm of common sense.
 
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I think I did it! I think I broke an unwritten rule! Would rather not go into the explanation that recounting it would involve. Plus I'm a little embarrassed at the moment about it.

Let's just say that if a particular online NT dominated community says the section they've given you for asking questions is meant for asking questions which you couldn't ask someone in real life...they don't really mean questions you couldn't ask in real life.
 
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Ste11aeres said:
I think I did it! I think I broke an unwritten rule! Would rather not go into the explanation that recounting it would involve. Plus I'm a little embarrassed at the moment about it.

Let's just say that there are certain things that can be discussed in some NT circles, but not even mentioned in others. Even online. At least that's what seems to be the deal.
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I can only surmise that it must have involved one of those fairly "universal" social conventions. I just get perplexed at times trying to discern universal social conventions versus say, something I suspect is limited to a culture or specific group of people. And even then there's no telling if you unwittingly might offend one's individual sensibilities.

At times it's very confusing, especially if someone asks you a question and you attempt to answer it as best (and honestly) as you can. And they don't like your answer! Go figure...that's happened to me before.
 
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Written rules are often incorrect, so are unwritten rules. I let my own knowledge guide me in that. Since immigrating into this country I have found that many of the rules do not make any sense and are often skewed to favor crooked people. That is just my opinion though.
 
Unwritten rules are also assumptions. If two or more people have the same assumptions the unwritten rules work. If one or more people do not assume the same things, the unwritten rules fall apart and there is conflict. Why do you think there is so much conflict in the world? Misunderstandings galore!
 
Sportster said:
I think I've totally failed in making my point. The poker game is not the issue. That was 30 years ago. I just used it to illustrate my point. All I wanted to know is if other Aspies have difficulty in seeing or understanding unwritten rules; those things that NT's seem to know instinctively. Forget about the bloody poker game!!!
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I get what you are saying. I have the same problem. Those unspoken rules that everyone seems to know instinctively yet we don't unless it is explained to us, which they are not!
I get it a lot at work. Things that I've been pulled up on by work mates that are unspoken but that everyone who is a NT seems to already know and do. It is frustrating and annoying, because it is not written into the job description yet I'm expected and meant to do all these other things. I'm not a mind reader, but it pointless explaining. NT's always think that its an excuse or an attempt to no do something.

I cant speak for everyone here... but yes it happens to me, all the time. And yes I find it very frustrating and annoying and it gets me very stressed.
 
Autism said:
Written rules are often incorrect, so are unwritten rules. I let my own knowledge guide me in that. Since immigrating into this country I have found that many of the rules do not make any sense and are often skewed to favor crooked people. That is just my opinion though.
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Yes I agree. The injustice of society drives me irate!!!
 
Sportster said:
I’ve been contemplating events in my life in light of learning I’m an Aspie and looking at my difficulty in reading people, situations, etc. One of the things with which I have difficulty is understanding “unwritten rules.” Allow me to site an example.

Many years ago, I consented to participate in a social function at a friend’s house. I had known him a couple years and worked directly with him; I also got to know his family quite well. Because of that, I was relatively comfortable being there. He invited me to a get together to play poker with a couple other fellows, eat burgers, and spend time “as men do.”

The evening went well and I enjoyed playing poker for the first time. They explained the game and how to bet. I arrived with $2.00 and finished with $12.00. My normal time to be home was approaching, so I concluded, thanked them for a good time, and started to leave. Much to my dismay, a riot almost broke out. They informed me that they wanted to get their money back. As far as I was concerned, I won, so I failed to see the problem. Was not the purpose of the game to win? My friend got me out of there in one piece, but lectured me the next day about leaving with everyone’s money. To this day, almost thirty years later, I still do not see what I did wrong.

So, am I just stupid, or is this an Aspie thing? I did not see the unwritten rule, nor did I understand why they were upset because I had broken the unwritten rule. Had I known that there would be a problem if I won, I would not have played. It has been like that my entire life. It’s as though there are things that I am supposed to know instinctively, as though I have to be clairvoyant or something. Does anyone else have this same problem? I’d like to hear what others think.
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This is why I stay away from playing games that don't rely strictly on luck with people I'm not close to. People tend to be sore losers, and once I've got a games system worked out I become quite the formidable opponent. Poker is definitely an Aspie friendly game, black jack even more so... Actually, most card games are. As is war strategy games like battlefield, chess, checkers, etc. Anything with a predictable pattern.
 
Sportster said:
I thought it was rather silly how they acted, especially in the "context of gambling." Still, I've since learned that outside of a casino setting, one does not leave the table with others' winnings. By the way, but I have not played cards since then.

The thing I've noticed over the years is how I have never grasped, noticed, caught, or whatever those unwritten rules are regardless the situation. You've done an excellent job of theorizing; it makes sense to me. It's interesting how you used the phrase, ". . . treated similar to a criminal," because I have been treated like a criminal because of a violation of some social convention. The really disturbing thing is when I ask those offended to explain, they either won't or can't. I wish there was a book somewhere that I could carry around like a foreign language dictionary that I could refer to in certain situations.
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If only I could write that master manual... I'd be so filthy rich going by how many times I've seen Aspies saying they wished there was a book that explained it all or asking if there's any resources that can help explain it, LOL.
 
rollerskate said:
If only I could write that master manual... I'd be so filthy rich going by how many times I've seen Aspies saying they wished there was a book that explained it all or asking if there's any resources that can help explain it, LOL.
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I've never read "The Field Guide To Earthlings". Maybe someone here likely has. Makes me wonder what those 62 Neurotypical behavior patterns are.
 
This thread has got me to chuckling quite a few times. Especially realizing we were all discussing someone's poker game from 30 years ago. :-D

I would love to have an example of unspoken rules to give you. Unfortunately I forget these events almost as soon as they happen because I've gotten so darn used to being the imbecile with that stuff all the time and also because as someone else noted people react to it without ever telling me what exactly I did wrong. I do have one example I can think of, but it's not normal at all and kind of crazy. OK, completely crazy....

Last year I went to stay with my niece that I've never met before. I kept asking her what I could do house work wise and she kept telling me not to worry about it. Well, I'm kind of OCD. So when I noticed something needed cleaning, I would sneak around to do it so I could avoid any conflicts over having gone against their wishes that I not help out with that stuff. Of course, I never said anything about it. Just if I saw it needed to be done, I did it.

Well she got all mad at me for not helping with that stuff. She said that the polite thing to do would have been to do it anyway no matter what she said. Which I DID do but she didn't know it because I didn't tell her I was. So how on earth was she supposed to know if I did or not if her expectation was for me to do it behind her back, unless she expected me to tell her about it or something....?

Something else that happened with her was I kept asking her to have a pow wow whenever she had time because she was always working or entertaining guests and obviously didn't want to be disturbed during those times. She would never do it. Then she got mad over our lack of communication.... ?

What's interesting is she swore up and down I lacked manners, but I know for a fact I have impeccable manners from having been groomed to be a lady from an early age, right down to an etiquette camp. Sure I may not catch unspoken rules, but no one has ever accused me of that when I was on my best behavior, which I was there. In fact, I can make people pretty uncomfortable by being too formal when I put my best foot forward. I suspect when I have issues over that a lot of times it's because they feel I'm upstaging them in a sense, but that's another story....

Anyhow that's the best I've really got. Now days I try to avoid people that go on the whole unspoken rule agenda anyway. It's moronic. I'm not a mind reader and our society is such a melting pot of cultures and beliefs and experiences that such unspoken expectations of others is downright silly because not everyone grew up with the same stuff.
 
rollerskate said:
Anyhow that's the best I've really got. Now days I try to avoid people that go on the whole unspoken rule agenda anyway. It's moronic. I'm not a mind reader and our society is such a melting pot of cultures and beliefs and experiences that such unspoken expectations of others is downright silly because not everyone grew up with the same stuff.
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Uh huh. That's why I really do think I'd crack up laughing at someone wagging their finger at me about some unwritten rule. If they didn't bother to write it down it couldn't have had much significance! Ya think? :rolleyes:
 
Sportster said:
Okay, I sort of understand. You may want to post something on the computer forum to see if someone can give some insight. I'm using a machine that's at least 10-years-old, so I'm not much help on the newfangled devices everyone is using. Brent, King, or one of the others know a whole lot more than I ever will, so I'm sure one of them can help.
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It's the app period. Unless the media is attached, it always does that. Can't watch videos either. There's the website but since I signed up through Tapatalk getting a password for my account is going to be a bit of a pain I haven't felt like bothering with yet. I was just hoping you had a link you could post.
 
This topic is interesting, in so many ways.

There are several reasons that "unwritten rules" aren't written down. The first reason, and by far the most prevalent, is that all of us, by being immersed in a culture, probably make several dozen assumptions a day, it would be difficult to interact otherwise. Since most people that the average person deals with on a daily basis have a similar cultural frame of reference, writing down rules of interaction would probably take a great deal of time and effort.

That's assuming that all parties involved in an interaction are working at the same levels of intercommunication and have no additional interests in play. That's a situation that is not always the case.
 
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