Aspies Who Live Like Or Perhaps Are NT's + My Unwanted Envy

[Slithytoves]

You perhaps inadvertently got me thinking and suddenly I was brainstorming ideas and creating knowledge and understanding of myself, something I realised I haven't actually done in many months or possibly a year or more (I used to enjoy doing this whilst going for a walk around town during the evening).

I’m very happy to hear that this thread has been so productive for you!

I was reminded today as to just how complex (perhaps overly so) I am........my problem is that some of the things I come up with are so complex that even councilors have been seriously challenged by me........Whilst no-one (or at least I don't think so) can really get to grips with the things I could mention........For better and worse I'm by no means your average aspie at all

Work and relationships are the only two areas that my self-esteem is probably low, outside of this it seems that I am and always have been a rock with belief in myself that nothing and no-one can challenge (which without being more specific, is just one of the many known sources of strength I have).

Hmmmm. Keeping in mind that we have already established I’m fond of you, I’m starting to worry that you might inadvertently come off to women as a little too arrogant. It’s true you’re an interesting mix, in part for being so uncomfortable in some areas while being exceptionally confident in others. When talking with women, or anyone really, confidence is best mixed with an equal measure of humility. I’ve seen your humble side so I know it’s there, but if you focus on presenting the kind of confidence demonstrated in some of your statements here, you could really overshoot the mark.

When a person who has insecurities makes a display of their intellect, complexity, or whatever other qualities they do feel good about, the result can seem questionable. I’m not saying you do this, but it is a natural thing to try to do. If you tend to act very authoritative or super-secure when you talk to women you meet, my guess is they can see it’s not the whole story. Smart women know when somebody is overcompensating. I won’t try to make suggestions for this here, but this is something you would be wise to explore in counseling.

Other things that are ideal for discussing in counseling are your thoughts about feeling guilty, sleazy, unworthy, etc., your concerns about a hypothetical partner finding someone better, and the likelihood that any relationship you find may fail and leave you alone forever after. This is all common stuff for men who have a hard time meeting/dating people. A therapist can help you get it all in perspective and stop projecting worst-case scenarios.

Back to your quotes, above: It's worth saying that you may not be as special as you think. A very common defense among Aspie men seems to be the stance that they are more complex or in some way superlative than they actually are. This is a forum full of high IQs and many-layered people, and there are plenty of those in the NT world as well. Understand your strengths on a more human scale, with everyone else, and you may have an easier time solving the mystery of your inertia in the social and business worlds.

Unfortunately I see rejection as being a way of them implying "how dare you, what makes you think you can look at me in that way or that you have the right to say those things to me, I never once implied I did or asked you to".

I see words like “right” and “challenge” come up in your posts a lot. It gives me the impression that you have developed an almost contentious view of interaction with people. This may sound like nitpicking, but the language we use shapes our reality, so I think this is important to point out. Human relationships aren’t a contest or a battle, though it’s understandable that it could seem that way after years of struggle trying to connect with others.

Try looking at it this way: When you approach a woman, it’s not because you have the right to, it’s because you have the opportunity to, and would like her to accept the opportunity to know you. If she isn’t interested, she isn’t denying you a right or diminishing you personally in any way; she’s merely not interested in taking you up on the opportunity, for reasons you won’t know and shouldn’t make any assumptions about. This stuff is all much more neutral than your preferred language suggests. Seeing it for what it is, neutral, may help you feel better about declined attention. Which, by the way, isn’t quite the same thing as “rejection”, a very loaded word that implies you have been scrutinized more closely than you probably have been, and that a major value judgment has been made against you. Things just aren’t that dramatic in casual circumstances.

The bottom line is, allowing yourself to see everything as so critical and urgent is only going to exacerbate your problems and guarantee self-sabotage. I know it’s very hard to take the long, slow view when you’re lonely and sick to death of being so. Right now you’re in need of perspective and balance, and anything you attempt before you have those will likely see the same result. I don’t suggest shutting down, the way you said you wanted to in another recent thread. But putting yourself on “pause” until you can get some personal work done would probably be healthiest for you right now.

After writing all of this, I have to wonder if you're not going to end up in Feedback Overload, which won't really help you. Maybe we should wrap this up and let you focus on socializing here on other subjects for a while, while you're waiting to see a professional?

I really want you to succeed in every way that you do. I genuinely empathize, and am cheering you on as you continue your journey. You can get there. You just need time and a little assistance.

 

[Slithytoves]

This, what Slithytoves has said is really important stuff to take in and reflect on The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy. This is some of the best real, genuine advice you might ever get, you seem to respond really positively to straight up, cut to the chase advice and well, i have been mulling what Slithytoves has said here and have found it very insightful and helpful myself.

Thanks, Qwerty. Glad I could help. I think you've given some truly spot-on advice here, too.

 

[Hopeless_Aspie_Guy]

You may know from other threads that I have been a personal assistant to both well-known recording artists and film actors. My last relationship before Harrison was with an iconic character actor with a large cult following, and in my travels with him to genre conventions, I had the opportunity to see a number of single male stars interact with women for days at a time. I also had a chance to converse at length with many of these men, and got a good sense of their personalities.

From my experience, I don't think male stars/sex symbols are good examples for learning what attracts women.

'You may know'.....um no I didn't, not at all. Thats quite a feat/fact to throw out there, but it possibly explains a few things which would otherwise have left me wondering.

Nadador, formerly a very active member of AC whose TV career keeps him away from here much of the time, is known as an incredibly appealing man among female fans who have met him in person. I came to AC through him, when he was dating a good friend of mine, and I have seen him interact with people in person. What makes him so appealing is his gentleness, his humility, his courtesy, his tendency to listen more than/as much as talk, and the crystal-clear impression that he is self-secure and intelligent without having to act like he is.

This I do remember hearing about from him, his acting career and what not.

What I will say (following another of those enlightening sessions of self discovery, brainstorming and a recorded monologue in my car on the way home....which I enjoyed doing) is this. I realize that for myself love was and is (in most ways) never truely wanted (no suprise there though) but here's the bigger one (nor needed, ever). I found myself in a position of vulnerability many years ago (which will never go away) and it occurred to me that in actuality it is/was my own curiosity (the one and only thing that genuine gives me cause to want to be in a relationship and the only part of me that can claim to want to know) coupled with the absence of any proper viable solution to challenge/overthrow the low feelings that is most likely the reason why an interest in romance was all that was left as a solution and why it'll always prove inescapable. If I was never so curious then there'd be nothing to put me through the humiliating process of trying to get a lover (an instinct/skill that never really developed in me as it does in virtually all NT's and to a lesser extent within the more atypical aspies). The most honest intention I can ever have (with zero opposition from any other part of me) is to simply better understand why I fail (desp[ite realising that actually I've not been rejected often because in fact I've rarely risked asking them) and how and why the differences in the mindset of me vs most NT women are so vast (more than I was ever previously capable of imagining). I can thrive on and enjoy the power gained from broadening an understanding in an area that I know so little about and can use that feeling of safety to address the low feelings and lack of sense of purpose and at the same time I won't rule out the possibility (no matter how unlikely it currently seems) that I could try to progress my relationships with women in a social or romantic sense ( especially as I know that I could perhaps enjoy that too).

Why not try and put it on the back burner for now and try to have some
fun instead of dwelling on this issue you have?
Try to talk with other people here and get used to feeling accepted and
enjoying the time with people who have similar interests and stuff.
Try getting to know some people, maybe talk about some of your interests and stuff
you mentioned that you enjoy philosophy, technology, films/TV etc.. well there are
many people here who enjoy the same things and there are threads that you will
hopefully really enjoy on these topics.

Yup, it's been said before and I can't stop agreeing. I'll be giving that a go when I can.

I think it is fantastic that you have your name on a waiting list for some
counselling as from reading some of what you have written i think it would
be a good idea to stop torturing yourself over this until you can get some
good help with working on healthier ways to approach your issues.

Agreed, however this plays into a tactic I forgot that I've been using to modest success to prevent too much lust for relationships (or any desire at all if I'm lucky). It goes like this;

Ironically (as a result of me having learnt a few years back how to actually tap into my subcobnscious with the the M.O being to try and manipulate it as oppose to it doing that to me) I realised a few months back that I can trick myself into thinking or feeling things which don't actually exist (I can actually do this to the point where I genuinely can't tell if I'm lieing or telling the truth about something) or with the intent on creating the illusion that a problem is gone which in turn becomes trueover time purely because you've tricked yourself into thinking it is). Here's how- in short I know that me trying and me not trying can often inadvertently end up being one in the same and that I can feel so much towards women simply through what I've been thinking or imagining (even though in reality nothing has changed in me interacting with them or someone showing interest in me etc). So long as I tell myself (and others, though only when asked) that I'm trying, I'm learning, I'm not closing doors even though I'm not actively looking to open them. It's funny because ultimately by not putting a timeframe of any kind on when I expect or hope to have p[rogressed in a relationship, it basically means I can string that other annoying part of me along and let it think that one day something will happen (even though really, without going to great lengths to try or being lucky enough tio have someone approach me instead) knowing full well that it never will but that it can't call me out and say "hey you're not trying" because I can easily argue that I am trying, just by learning, or that I was getting no-where when I was trying so why should you/it feel any worse just because I'm not.....same endgame.

I think that while you stop obsessing over the interactions and how it could all go pear shaped with every female you meet, that sounds exhausting to me and
will definitely not be helping your situation any, it could even be part of the
problem. So take a few deep breaths and give yourself permission to enjoy
yourself, get to know yourself, improve your social skills and promise yourself
to wait till you can really get to the bottom of your issues with a psychologist
before you even think of starting a relationship.

I have a real problem, a real problem with you using the words 'pear shaped' lol, why? Because ironically I came (through too much looking and feeling) to the conclusion that it's the 'pear-shaped' women (if purely on a physical level, the only one I could judge on in such short spaces of time) that really float my boat in terms of physical attraction. Anyway (eyes rolling...whistle whistle and what not......).

Hmmmm. Keeping in mind that we have already established I’m fond of you, I’m starting to worry that you might inadvertently come off to women as a little too arrogant. It’s true you’re an interesting mix, in part for being so uncomfortable in some areas while being exceptionally confident in others. When talking with women, or anyone really, confidence is best mixed with an equal measure of humility. I’ve seen your humble side so I know it’s there, but if you focus on presenting the kind of confidence demonstrated in some of your statements here, you could really overshoot the mark. When a person who has insecurities makes a display of their intellect, complexity, or whatever other qualities they do feel good about, the result can seem questionable. I’m not saying you do this, but it is a natural thing to try to do. If you tend to act very authoritative or super-secure when you talk to women you meet, my guess is they can see it’s not the whole story. Smart women know when somebody is overcompensating. I won’t try to make suggestions for this here, but this is something you would be wise to explore in counseling.

I get why you're saying this, but in reality, barring things like certain video games or knowledge regarding technology and some other things, I a modest person often too scarred to toot his own horn for the fear of being regarded as arrogant. Sometimes I hide things too well, other times I show them too much. The truth when chatting with other women is that at worst it's simply perhaps that lack of atypical social skills or way of speaking that I am aware separates me from the NT guys they can interact so much more fondly and seamlessly with.

I see words like “right” and “challenge” come up in your posts a lot. It gives me the impression that you have developed an almost contentious view of interaction with people. This may sound like nitpicking, but the language we use shapes our reality, so I think this is important to point out. Human relationships aren’t a contest or a battle, though it’s understandable that it could seem that way after years of struggle trying to connect with others.

Nope you've got it right on the money and unfortunately I just so happen to have the memory and skills to know exactly when, where and why this is what it is. An over-awareness for things if you will.

Try looking at it this way: When you approach a woman, it’s not because you have the right to, it’s because you have the opportunity to, and would like her to accept the opportunity to know you. If she isn’t interested, she isn’t denying you a right or diminishing you personally in any way; she’s merely not interested in taking you up on the opportunity, for reasons you won’t know and shouldn’t make any assumptions about. This stuff is all much more neutral than your preferred language suggests. Seeing it for what it is, neutral, may help you feel better about declined attention. Which, by the way, isn’t quite the same thing as “rejection”, a very loaded word that implies you have been scrutinized more closely than you probably have been, and that a major value judgment has been made against you. Things just aren’t that dramatic in casual circumstances.
Other things that are ideal for discussing in counseling are your thoughts about feeling guilty, sleazy, unworthy, etc., your concerns about a hypothetical partner finding someone better, and the likelihood that any relationship you find may fail and leave you alone forever after. This is all common stuff for men who have a hard time meeting/dating people. A therapist can help you get it all in perspective and stop projecting worst-case scenarios.

Thats probably the best and most useful statement you've came out with to date, simple yet effective. Are you sure you're not going to go onto say something like "I've seen this many times with my other patients" ?????

After writing all of this, I have to wonder if you're not going to end up in Feedback Overload, which won't really help you. Maybe we should wrap this up and let you focus on socializing here on other subjects for a while, while you're waiting to see a professional?

I hear you, but it's good because it is the very challenge to my thoughts (kinda CBT- COGNITIVE BEHAVIOURAL THERAPY) that I needed to hear. But yes I imagine this thread will slowly dry up into the pages of aspie central history for further reasearch by myself and others.


You know I kinda see myself as the Annakin skywalker of Star wars episode III, brilliant, yet flawed and heading down the path of evil (ok not quite this dramatic but it's kinda me).

I'm tired and need to go to bed, but hopefully that all made enough sense to those who read it.

 

[Slithytoves]

I hear you, but it's good because it is the very challenge to my thoughts (kinda CBT- COGNITIVE BEHAVIOURAL THERAPY) that I needed to hear.

Fair enough. If it helps, it helps.

'You may know'.....um no I didn't, not at all. Thats quite a feat/fact to throw out there, but it possibly explains a few things which would otherwise have left me wondering.

I didn't mean to sound like I was bragging, by the way. I needed to frame my experience with the two actors. It wasn't much of a feat, really. I got into the field in my late teens when I ran off with a tour roadie who was in town with Jethro Tull to get away from my hometown. A female roadie has limited flexibility if they're physically small, so I fell into personal assistant work. I burned out on the constant travel, eventually, but got back into the biz with actors a few years back by going to a film festival and pitching my services to one who obviously needed a handler for public appearances. Anybody can do it, if they know how to sell themselves. No special background required. You can meet prospective employers at sci-fi/horror conventions (in particular) pretty easily, since the "talent" spends the weekend at the same hotel the ticket-holders do, and they often mingle with the crowd at night in the hotel bar. Since I did the job, two other people I met along the way, just regular fans who liked to volunteer at conventions, have gotten similar gigs on my advice (though only on an intermittent basis).

Thinking about it, it may actually be an interesting option for you. It's a fun job with lots of perks and frankly, tons of people will want to talk to you because you're a gatekeeper. I got to travel quite a bit and had some very memorable experiences. I was also involved with the making of a film, from Day One of shooting through the festival phase to DVD release (the producers couldn't get the film distributed to theaters, sadly), though that would only happen if you managed to become a full-time assistant to an individual actor. The "secret": Don't act like a fan. Just talk to the celebs like normal people and seem respectful, perceptive and helpful.

I found myself in a position of vulnerability many years ago (which will never go away)

If I was never so curious then there'd be nothing to put me through the humiliating process of trying to get a lover

What an intriguing teaser. I can't help but be curious about the mystery situation. I hope it wasn't too traumatic.

The most honest intention I can ever have is to simply better understand why I fail and how and why the differences in the mindset of me vs most NT women are so vast.

I know a lot of NT guys who find women equally unfathomable. If there's a God, He has a sense of humor.

I read an interesting 2013 study out of the Autistic Research Centre at Cambridge, finding, among other things, that the brains of female autistics are much more similar to male brains than those of female NTs. Maybe finding a nice Aspie girl would be a better bet, if you can crack the code. We're a tough crowd. This thread might scare the pants of the ladies here, though, to be blunt. You tend to reveal quite a lot by your honesty. AC isn't really a dating site, anyway. It's better off being pressure-free for all. And of course it's best not to risk messing up a good hangout with dual motives, unless of course you naturally click with someone without trying.

I won't rule out the possibility that I could try to progress my relationships with women in a social or romantic sense.

As opposed to...? What? Sex? For that, there's always Craigslist UK.

I get why you're saying this, but in reality, barring things like certain video games or knowledge regarding technology and some other things, I a modest person often too scarred to toot his own horn for the fear of being regarded as arrogant. Sometimes I hide things too well, other times I show them too much. The truth when chatting with other women is that at worst it's simply perhaps that lack of atypical social skills or way of speaking that I am aware separates me from the NT guys they can interact so much more fondly and seamlessly with.

Understood.

Are you sure you're not going to go onto say something like "I've seen this many times with my other patients" ?????

Hahaha! Nope. I don't have the patience for patients. Learned that in my counseling internships.

Hang in there, Anakin. You will find the knowledge you seek.

 

[Hopeless_Aspie_Guy]

I got to travel quite a bit and had some very memorable experiences. I was also involved with the making of a film, from Day One of shooting through the festival phase to DVD release (the producers couldn't get the film distributed to theaters, sadly). Thinking about it, it may actually be an interesting option for you.

Hmm, well my youngest sister is involved (at an amateur level) in film making as it's something she's involved with now at degree level. It sounds like an interesting job you have, though I can't see an opportunity ever being available for me (good or not).

As opposed to...? What? Sex? For that, there's always Craigslist UK.

Um no I meant everything below that (friendships, general chit chat or a relationship). Somehow I don't think aspies get on so well with adult dating (not that I haven't been curious and probably wouldnt fail to impress if just from an ideas/roleplaying standpoint) but in general I think it's just pie in the sky, no matter how curious I could see myself being of this beyond the one sexual encounter I had in my sham/joke of a relationship. Besides, these sites are rife with scammers leaving one to wonder how much success can ever be had.

What an intriguing teaser. I can't help but be curious about the mystery situation. I hope it wasn't too traumatic.

I'm afraid it was very traumatizing for me yes, after-all it has mostly changed/ruined me for life and sadly I was responsible for 60ish% of the many individual strands of this problem. I was once immeasurably mentally strong, but sadly I had to beware of myself (the only one who could ever take me down like it/I did). But it is a long story best saved for a time where I'm not still desperately trying to fight off the horrific effects of being dangerously tired/sleepy. My head's throbbing and I'm getting intense chip flashes (or that's what I call them anyway). Grr I must get plenty of sleep now or I'm gonna start getting too angry/irritable (hearing and seeing myself in this state is rather comical lol).

I always thought you were an NT, huh must have mistaken you for someone else.