Autism and ADHD

[Progster]

I am diagnosed with Aspergers, but also suspect ADHD. This is how it goes for me:

I seek out novelty and stimulation (ADHD), and then when I have it, I can't handle it (ASD), so stop and spend a while calming down. Then I get bored and the same cycle happens over and over again. I also often also decided to do things on impulse, and then couldn't handle the result. In practical terms, this means:

I really want to try that new dish at the restaurant, sounds yummy, but once in the restaurant I can't stand the loud music or there are people smoking, so I have to leave.

I really want to visit the museum because it sounds really interesting, I want to go out, got to get out of the house, but when I get out, I hate the traffic, there are kids shouting and screaming, I can't concentrate, etc.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

I am officially diagnosed with both and I think you do, in fact, have Autism and ADHD. Mostly because I relate so much to what you've said so far.

 

[Full Steam]

I am diagnosed with ASD, and ADHD combined.

To me ASD is my brain type with both positives and negatives, ADHD is a layer on top that mostly just gets in the way.

It possibly has made me more social than if I were ASD alone though.

ADHD is more controllable as it's more about (in my opinion) brain chemistry right now, rather than brain type and brain development.

I can control my ADHD through diet, supplements and a bit of meds.

 

[Full Steam]

Here's a few bits I did on the war between ASD & ADHD.

ADHD-vs-ASD-lets-go-shopping

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ADHD-vs-ASD-do-it-fast.final.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-bored-bored-bored.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-who-wants-to-work.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-lets-go-shopping.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-i-love-you.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-i-hate-you.resized

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ADHD-vs-ASD-do-it-fast.final.resized

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[An Arctic fox]

I am diagnosed with ASD, and ADHD combined.

To me ASD is my brain type with both positives and negatives, ADHD is a layer on top that mostly just gets in the way.

It possibly has made me more social than if I were ASD alone though.

ADHD is more controllable as it's more about (in my opinion) brain chemistry right now, rather than brain type and brain development.

I can control my ADHD through diet, supplements and a bit of meds.

Yeah I get that. Though for me since I also have anxiety it makes it so I dont socialize unless I let myself be impulsive and when I'm overwhelmed I struggle to not be impulsive. I dont get ADHD meds since im not diagnosed and I struggle with food because of anorexia so that wont happen and I've looked for supplements and cant find any that are vegan and 0 calorie. But when I am able to eat I try and eat healthily but I do struggle with ADHD stuff a lot and have mostly figured out ways around it..when not in school that is. So I get that

 

[An Arctic fox]

Those pictures are amazing and very relatable

 

[Full Steam]

Yeah I get that. Though for me since I also have anxiety it makes it so I dont socialize unless I let myself be impulsive and when I'm overwhelmed I struggle to not be impulsive. I dont get ADHD meds since im not diagnosed and I struggle with food because of anorexia so that wont happen and I've looked for supplements and cant find any that are vegan and 0 calorie. But when I am able to eat I try and eat healthily but I do struggle with ADHD stuff a lot and have mostly figured out ways around it..when not in school that is. So I get that

I don't take the normal stimulants - I've tried and they didn't work well.

Also NOT a long term solution. I read somewhere that almost all studies where over just months or a few years for stims.

They are virtually guaranteed to downregulate dopamine receptors, making the problems worse in the long run. The fact that they are the front line treatment is stupid.

FYI, in case it helps, here's what I take;

I take Memantine which blocks glutamate at the brain receptor. I have a gene defect in the enzyme which recycles glutamate, so taking this protects my brain, and reduces ADHD symptoms. Doesn't work for every one though. There's heaps on Reddit about it.

That's the only med.

Supplements;

I am very picky. I only buy vege ones, and I tend to only buy Now Foods, Doctors Best or other high-quality stuff. Supplements are usually regulated by food authorities not pharmaceutical authorities, so bad companies can put any old crap in.
Look for stuff labelled GMP - Good Manufacturing Process. This means they have been accredited.

• I take Now Foods zinc picolinate every day, which helps over time.
• Jiagulan tea also blocks glutamate and really helps a lot.
• St Johns wort tea means no need for SSRIs, which never worked well anyway.
• I take a Now Foods B complex which supports methylation - I have a few methylation genetic problems.
• I take Now Foods NAC which also support methylation.
• Now Foods Candida support - I had persistent brain fog and prone to depression, which is cured by taking this. When I stop it comes back, so maybe still some underlying problem.
• Valerian tea before bed - only just started that - increases glutamate enzyme, increases GABA.

Diet;

I don't eat gluten which has made an enormous difference. I actually think that both my ASD & ADHD may have been born out of an inability to digest gluten, which then causes gut damage and contains morphine-like substances that get into the brain.

Gluten causes depression, fatigue, anxiety, brain fog in me (and I've tested repeatedly because all my favourite things contain gluten )

I also take a few nootropics as well, but they are not really needed - icing on the cake.

My solution was to take responsibility for everything, and then never settle for anything.

If I don't like something I try to change it, and I don't ever give up - that's one good aspect of ASD

 

[Full Steam]

Just noticed I missed a few;

ADHD-vs-ASD-get-out.resized

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[An Arctic fox]

oh ok

so stims arent a long term solution then?

the stims are or regular ADHD meds?

Thank you!

Yeah it is a nice aspect of ASD {:

Those are so cool {:

 

[Full Steam]

Well, doctors might think they are.

I don't though, and if you read on ADHD forums you'll find people coping with tolerance, which is down regulated receptors.

It can be managed by only taking them occasionally, or cycling them, but most people get told to take them every day.

 

[An Arctic fox]

Ok.

So is tolerance good or bad?

Oh ok

 

[Fino]

I don't take the normal stimulants - I've tried and they didn't work well.

Also NOT a long term solution. I read somewhere that almost all studies where over just months or a few years for stims.

They are virtually guaranteed to downregulate dopamine receptors, making the problems worse in the long run. The fact that they are the front line treatment is stupid.

Which ones did you try?

There are a number of studies which follow people over decades, up to 40 years.

I've never been able to find anything about downregulation or tolerance other than people on forums and reddit, and they're all ridiculous.

 

[Fino]

Ok.

So is tolerance good or bad?

Oh ok

Tolerance is good. Stimulants are taken daily in order to purposely have some tolerance because the goal is not pleasure or a "high," it's to achieve a new normal. People take them, feel amazing initially, stop feeling amazing very quickly, then complain on the internet about their lack of euphoria.

Adderall is easily the most helpful medication I've ever been prescribed.

 

[Fino]

so stims arent a long term solution then?

the stims are or regular ADHD meds?

I agree with doctors. They are a long-term solution, they are a miracle.

And stims are the regular ADHD meds, unless you're just using "regular" to mean "non-stim"

 

[Full Steam]

Bad.

It means that you need more to get the same effect as time goes on.

Your body is in homeostasis. This is basically like a see saw that is always perfectly balanced with weight on each side.

If you add a drug that increases something like dopamine (Ritalin, Adderall etc), then one end of the see saw goes down and you get an effect.

Your body "sees" this, and stops making as much dopamine so the balance is restored. So now you have less to start with and you need to take more to upset the balance again.

Over time, this gets worse and worse. Opiates, barbituates and stimulants are particularly bad.

They are also addictive.

The main targets for ADHD treatments are;

• Dopamine & norepinephrine (Ritalin, Adderall, Stims). Best solution is to upregulate the receptors, not just release dopamine/ norepinephrine.
• Acetylcholine ( Huperzine, Alpha GPC, lecithin etc). Can add choline, or reduce the enzyme that removes acetylcholine from your blood.
• Nicotinic receptors (Nicotine). Not sure the best method. I take nicotine gum sometimes, and it works well, but there's tolerance and addiction potential - got to be careful and cycle it. Nicontine is not known to cause cancer by itself, but there's some evidence it can turn into cancer causing agents in some people. Tabacco contains many other terrible chemicals that work together to kill people.
• Glutamate (NDMA receptor antagonists (blockers), like memantine, alcohol etc). Can be blocked at the brain receptor, or maybe increase GAD1 enzyme which turns it back to GABA.
• GABA - the balancing opposite of glutamate. Calms you down. Anything that directly or strongly increase GABA will probably cause tolerance, and I believe this can be very bad. (phenybut is supposed to work very well, but can mess people up badly if not cycled). Alcohol's main action is also to add GABA. Makes you feel nice a chilled but the next day, homeostatis kicks in - much less GABA and feeling bad. I take valarian, Fennel seed, Anniseed tea, maybe a bit of Gotu Kola or Melissa (Lemon Balm).

Over time and lots of testing/tweaking you can start to figure out what each feels like in excess or not enough, then you can do something to treat it.

On the ASD side, I treat my over load shutdowns by increasing BDNF. I do that with a few things ( all proven to work)

• Noopept - smart drug that increase BDNF. I keep in small, light and occaisonal.
• Hold your breath. Starving your brain of oxygen by holding your breath increase BDNF. I take a breath (3/4 lung capacity), hold it until it just starts to get uncomfortable, and release. Works every time, but not always enough to get rid of shutdown completely.
• Increase bifido bacteria. Bifido release masses of butyric acid in your gut that increases BDNF. I take green banana flour & potato starch every day. Takes a few days, but big effect.

 

[Full Steam]

Which ones did you try?

There are a number of studies which follow people over decades, up to 40 years.

I've never been able to find anything about downregulation or tolerance other than people on forums and reddit, and they're all ridiculous.

I've had Ritalin, and some other "non - prescribed" stuff.

They don't work well for me. I get super motivated, but just end up bouncing around not able to be productive, then get a crash in the afternoon.

I just don't agree with the official line "you have ADHD - here's some stims". Everyone is different.

Regarding tolerance;
Acute tolerance to methylphenidate in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in children. - PubMed - NCBI

I should point out that I'm sure stimulants work well for some people, and maybe even long term. They are hardcore drugs though and need to be used with caution.

 

[Fino]

I've had Ritalin, and some other "non - prescribed" stuff.

They don't work well for me. I get super motivated, but just end up bouncing around not able to be productive, then get a crash in the afternoon.

I just don't agree with the official line "you have ADHD - here's some stims". Everyone is different.

Regarding tolerance;
Acute tolerance to methylphenidate in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in children. - PubMed - NCBI

I should point out that I'm sure stimulants work well for some people, and maybe even long term. They are hardcore drugs though and need to be used with caution.

Did the doctor not recommend you also try an amphetamine or did you decide not to do so? It's odd to try only a methylphenidate and not an amphetamine. It's a well-known phenomenon for one to work well and one to not work so well.

I take Adderall three times a day, otherwise I'd experience negative effects later in the day as well.

The study you linked supports what I said.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Acute tolerance to methylphenidate appears to exist. This should be considered in the design of an optimal dosing regimen for the treatment of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."

Acute tolerance is desired, and the "super motivated" feeling that makes you bounce around should go away with tolerance. If not, the dose is just too high.

I agree with most of what you said though!

 

[SDRSpark]

I also can't return things! I once bought the wrong thing by accident and someone said, "you can just return it," and I threw it in the closet instead because I'd definitely pay the $20 to not try to return it.

LOL this is so weird, me too! I give stuff away a lot. "This didn't work for me and it's not worth the aggravation to return it. You want it?" I've given away so much stuff because of that.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

I'm diagnosed with both. How the diagnostic characteristics may manifest in someone else, I'm not sure, but I don't think it's situational.

As a side note, the term ADHD can be somewhat misleading and usually carries negative coronations in regard to the ability to pay attention. It usually means that I would have trouble paying attention to what "you" (quotations to imply the person observing) want me to pay attention to.

 

[Gift2humanity]

When I went for my autism assessment the assessor thought I had ADHD and said they cross over. He diagnosed me as possible ADHD but not Autistic (I wont ramble as I repeated it in another thread, getting reassessed as my psych wrote to them and they got me to write to them.)