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Autism, Fluid Intelligence and Evolution

Interesting, but I can't agree, largely due to the fact that my 'fluid intelligence', as he calls it, is practically non-existent; I'm hopeless at solving problems.
I see examples of Aspie fluid intelligence on this forum in the threads where we express what it is we don't like about NT social conventions, like the recent and very amusing "The Dreadful, Annoying 'How Are You'". NT social conventions are a matter of crystallized intelligence, which relies on specific acquired knowledge. I feel like taking things literally is an example of fluid intelligence, where we apply logical thinking to social situations in the absence of the acquired information about how to proceed in such situations, knowledge which is much more easily acquired by NTs.
 
Physical reproduction by individuals "goes nowhere" as far as influencing our species, that is unless two people create a child that has a mutation that just happens to be a positive response to a change in the environment. Isaac Newton had no children, but his ideas changed the lives of billions of humans, and defined a technological path that is still unfolding.

Also, Asperger's is not a legitimate diagnosis; there is no scientific evidence that a "normal" human exists average, typical, maybe) and in fact one cannot exist, because "normal" cannot be proven using scientific methods. Tests to "discover" Asberger's are designed to "reveal" a person who is pre-defined by psychologists - like saying Witches exist, making a list of "symptoms" and then finding people who match your pre-conceived "thing" called a Witch. All that can really be said is that there is a tiny minority of individuals who have a particular type of brain processing that is not socially directed, but self-directed, and who have an intense interest in how the world ACTUALLY WORKS. Without (us), humanity would be bereft of 99% of what keeps them alive.

You've hit on what appeals to me about the perspective this guy takes. I'm a big McLuhan fan because of what he observed about how technology changes minds, emotions, lives and cultures in profound ways. This guy (in the long version) concludes that the pressure that is making things change is rapid technological change. McLuhan actually suggested, back in the late 60's, that instead of just using computers to extract data (like calculators), we could feed in data and come together in a global consciousness.

Given the direction that information technology has evolved in since the introduction of the electric telegraph and continued through wired and wireless data networks, those who have the self-directed intense interest in how the world works have valuable perspectives to share. Being connected to others through a machine isn't so weird nowadays.

McLuhan himself actually preferred the literary culture engendered by the printing press, but he gave up railing against it and decided to learn to read what was going on instead. It's a pretty new phenomenon that we are able to see sweeping technological and cultural changes from generation to generation.
 
Also it seems unlikely that a very recent evolutionary change would be scattered in people around the globe: One would expect a cluster of specific mutations in a small group in a specific location.

This is where I differ from the standard Darwinian understanding of evolution. I am suggesting that it won't all just reduce to an out-of-Africa type pattern in the circumstance we are seeing today. It's a different kind of evolution than anything we've learned from the archaeological record before.

Actually, there is no conclusive evidence as to a genetic pattern or origin!

I know I'm going lose most of the people on here, but my feeling is that our received ideas about evidence and scientific rationality, which can only detect things after they have already happened, will be inadequate to perceive the changes that are happening in our world until they are over. McLuhan called this the "rearview mirror" approach, and it is a hallmark of Western/rational/literate thinking, the kind that flourished in the 19th century and the kind on which a Darwinian understanding of evolution is based.

The way to understand the world that has been turned into a global tribal village by electronic media is through pattern recognition. If you have to go by conclusive evidence, you have to wait until a phenomenon has passed--which is why McLuhan called it a "rearview mirror" perspective.
 
I think that rather than being a "new" step in the evolution of Homo sapiens that Asperger individuals have a brain type that is a legacy of an early pre-social human, who HAD TO understand and respond to the physical environment in order to survive, and that social humans, have LOST the ability to be function in the natural environment or to survive at all without the structures of "civilization" to support them.

From what I know of early humans, I'm pretty sure there has never been a "pre-social" human. Most primates live in groups, though there are some exceptions. The only isolated human is the "civilized" one! :)

What I see is that the game of pumping out kids to grow, grow, and grow some more has reached a tipping point where it's just not going to work anymore. And the game of competing with others to get to the top of the social ladder will play itself out, too.

We are in a transitionary period. All of us. Aspies are a part, as much an onshoot as an offshoot, of this transition. It doesn't work for us that well at the moment because the world is still mostly the old world. But it's changing really, really fast.
 
This is where I differ from the standard Darwinian understanding of evolution. I am suggesting that it won't all just reduce to an out-of-Africa type pattern in the circumstance we are seeing today. It's a different kind of evolution than anything we've learned from the archaeological record before.



I know I'm going lose most of the people on here, but my feeling is that our received ideas about evidence and scientific rationality, which can only detect things after they have already happened, will be inadequate to perceive the changes that are happening in our world until they are over. McLuhan called this the "rearview mirror" approach, and it is a hallmark of Western/rational/literate thinking, the kind that flourished in the 19th century and the kind on which a Darwinian understanding of evolution is based.

The way to understand the world that has been turned into a global tribal village by electronic media is through pattern recognition. If you have to go by conclusive evidence, you have to wait until a phenomenon has passed--which is why McLuhan called it a "rearview mirror" perspective.

The psychology of autism has many unknowns so far and a vast system of labels that make little sense of it. Autism represented by the puzzle piece is quite accurate as far as how many pieces are unknowns. Aspergers Syndrome is yet another label that they are trying to discard as they try to spend money on autism where they see fit to. I think a lot of the diagnosed terms are only terms for symptoms,not disorders as more of the puzzle gets assembled. I honestly believe our brains are on a cusp of change with some getting fantastic gifts and others getting downsides as the brain is restructuring to suit new tasks. Many prototypes are just experiments at first and often failures along the design path. Evolution may not be a proper term to use for a brain becoming advanced,but the possibility cannot be ignored. We still have the remnants of a tail from evolution we no longer need,so why not a better brain that we do?
 
From what I know of early humans, I'm pretty sure there has never been a "pre-social" human. Most primates live in groups, though there are some exceptions. The only isolated human is the "civilized" one! :)

What I see is that the game of pumping out kids to grow, grow, and grow some more has reached a tipping point where it's just not going to work anymore. And the game of competing with others to get to the top of the social ladder will play itself out, too.

We are in a transitionary period. All of us. Aspies are a part, as much an onshoot as an offshoot, of this transition. It doesn't work for us that well at the moment because the world is still mostly the old world. But it's changing really, really fast.
what he said...:p
 
"my feeling is that our received ideas about evidence and scientific rationality, which can only detect things after they have already happened" Whoa! Where did you get this? The power of science is that we can make extremely accurate predictions about future events. Detection, whatever you mean by that, not only locates information about past events but records ongoing events. Science is an ongoing process of discovery - not "received ideas". Science isn't dead, it's alive!
 
Daniel, I think you are in serious need of information: archaeology is not the study of evolution. And, what proof do you have that early humans, who lived in small groups, were social in the way that modern humans are - several million humans crammed together in an urban area, totally enmeshed in and dependent on social structures? To imagine early humans you have strip away everything we take for granted - they were animals living in the wild.
 
There is something in the fact that its only a blink of the eye since we were in much smaller groups as a species. Its so weird when I go to London and see how many people jostle each other all the time.

Ironically its easier for me to disappear in London than it is where I live which is a small town.
 
Daniel, I think you are in serious need of information: archaeology is not the study of evolution. And, what proof do you have that early humans, who lived in small groups, were social in the way that modern humans are - several million humans crammed together in an urban area, totally enmeshed in and dependent on social structures? To imagine early humans you have strip away everything we take for granted - they were animals living in the wild.

I never meant to imply that they were social in the way modern humans are. I meant to suggest that they lived in groups, and therefore, were social and not isolated. I disagreed with the notion of a "pre-social" human, because I didn't know that by "social" you meant "social in the way that modern humans are, which is unable to survive in the wild." I looked back and I see now that point you were trying to make. But even in those early groups, there were social structures in which humans were enmeshed and dependent, but I agree that they were probably more harmonious than the urban rat race.

And even if the brain difference is a throwback, it's still the "new" step if it happens subsequently in time. The context is new.

Archaeology is the study of dug-up things, yes. Fair criticism. I just think that evolution can happen in multiple places if pressures are happening in multiple places. Like, in a spooky-action-at-a-distance way.

"my feeling is that our received ideas about evidence and scientific rationality, which can only detect things after they have already happened" Whoa! Where did you get this? The power of science is that we can make extremely accurate predictions about future events. Detection, whatever you mean by that, not only locates information about past events but records ongoing events. Science is an ongoing process of discovery - not "received ideas". Science isn't dead, it's alive!

What I mean by this is that we can make extremely accurate predictions once we've established a conclusive pattern among a relatively small number of variables--that's what I mean about something that has "already happened". By "received ideas", I am referring to people who will not entertain new ideas until they have been established and accepted by the scientific community. And there's no such thing as evidence about the future. I will refrain from implying criticism of science itself, because it is indeed alive, and it is an excellent tool for what it does.

"inadequate to perceive the changes that are happening in our world until they are over" was the rest of that sentence, and that was the point. I didn't say that science was "received ideas"--the "received ideas" about science are in the minds of people who only think things if they are established as orthodoxy. I know people like this. They are not Aspies; sorry if I lumped fluid-thinking Aspies in with them! There is science, the tool, and Science, the culture. The culture that exists as a shared way of thinking in the minds of people. In your post, it felt like because you haven't received an idea as conclusive evidence proven by the scientific community, you can't entertain it, and nothing else can be said otherwise. It felt like your argument boiled down to "there's no scientific evidence" and that's that. If that's not representative of you, I apologize.

Where did I get this? As I mentioned--I got it from Marshall McLuhan. Few people have actually read his work, fewer have understood it. But he was one of those visionaries who saw potential in weird, disparate things that were happening in his time.

My whole point with this is I feel that the future will be brighter for autistic people, even though the present is not so bright and the past hasn't been either. I'll try to stick with that!
 
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I am suggesting that it won't all just reduce to an out-of-Africa type pattern in the circumstance we are seeing today. It's a different kind of evolution than anything we've learned from the archaeological record before.

Ah... here's what happened. About evolution, I was referring to the evolution of humans. For early humans, we had to dig them up to know about them. Darwin was a biologist. We also have genetics.
 
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There is something in the fact that its only a blink of the eye since we were in much smaller groups as a species. Its so weird when I go to London and see how many people jostle each other all the time.

Ironically its easier for me to disappear in London than it is where I live which is a small town.

Indeed! It's no wonder I like to put my earbuds on and block it all out. Cram so many people into a small space and it gets ugly.

Imagine a big city like that where most of the people were on the spectrum...
 
Hello,

It is said and known that LSD opens the mild and allows people to let go of their ego's, and emotionally connect with others (long lasting effects).

So, under professional supervision and intervention, would LSD have a positive effect for people with ASD?

Thanks.
 
Things like LSD and MDMA that are used for out of body experience and euphoria are dangerous over the long term because they deplete neuromodulators (5-HT especially, which is abnormal in ASDs... I'd be concerned about it).
I once met someone in a depression support group that had a brain anuerism the first time she took E because there was LSD in it. She spent several months in a coma. That completely swore me off ever trying street drugs.
 
LSD offers a chance of going to the point of no return...

I am going to have to nix the Timmy Leary Theory
 
Hello Timmy (again with this topic)

Have you ever tried drinking a nice refreshing cup of green tea in the morning, on a sunny day with blue skies and nature all around you? Just a thought, as you always seem to be going on about taking LSD. Thought I'd throw out a new idea for a different experience for you. It seems that all you ever talk about is this one thing. As it seems to be your "special interest", I'd say it's something you ought to think about.
 
Hello Timmy (again with this topic)

Have you ever tried drinking a nice refreshing cup of green tea in the morning, on a sunny day with blue skies and nature all around you? Just a thought, as you always seem to be going on about taking LSD. Thought I'd throw out a new idea for a different experience for you. It seems that all you ever talk about is this one thing. As it seems to be your "special interest", I'd say it's something you ought to think about.
Hello,

Yes, and it was really good fun. I had ingested, then I went for a cycle to lay in some fields with grass. I was looking up to the sky, all blue, and all that.

It was very good.
 
Radasp is right about Evolution requiring drift first, which normally implies that a population is isolated. We have a difficult time saying anything about the current course of human evolution because evolution for one takes a very looong time to lead to any significant changes, and secondly the majority of us are living in an environment where the major selective pressures are of our own making. I'm almost uncomfortable thinking about how this applies to things like Autism. Certainly if one believes in population genetics the sudden increase in diagnoses means something... unless you think we're just getting diagnosed more often. I'd hardly say we're on the verge of speciation though. But is it possible that since Homo sapiens first became a species that human intelligence has changed enough for us to consider our modern population a new species? I guess if we had a way of "proving" that intelligence now comes in a new enough flavor, we're not Homo sapiens. But Autism would just be something that afflicts the new human wouldn't it?
This discussion only makes sense to me philosophically. Maybe some non-verbal Autistics have achieved post-humanism. I'd agree to that. >.>
 
Natural selection can occur very quickly depending on circumstances. A good example is the moth in the uk which went from being predominantly dark to light coloured in response to pollution controls (dark moths thrived on dirty trees, when trees stopped getting covered in soot, dark ones were more visible to predators and got eaten more, resulting in more light ones within a short timespan of the 20th century).

Now, if this sort of thing is evolutionary based, then humans who are nt must have had some advantage to make them so dominant. But, outside influences beyond a species control can have a massive influence.

However, humanity has created it's own environment, so is less at the mercy of nature. But, maybe the growth of humanity has resulted in nt being dominant. With high populations, humans not as sociable stand out more than when there were less people.

Just wandering around the idea of evolution. Remember the Moths and sudden changes :D
 
Perhaps the definition of homo sapiens is in error.

Humans evolved to better themselves as they adapted to outside influences which could possibly spawn a new species which could have offered a new brain on the options list.

They still have older models out there that do not have some of the extras the new ones do.
 

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