'Autism isn't an excuse'

[Eren]

I think this applies not only to autism but to any other condition, such as ocd. Of course there are people who can use it as an excuse, but most people who say "don't use your condition as an excuse" are simply unempathetic people who don't want to bother trying to understand you.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah it sucks a lot hearing that, i think this is not unusual, not unheard of for people with autism, they can sadly, unfortuneately, come across as annoying or irritating to people when attempting to socialize and befriend people, and the autistic person is never aware of it, or they can be aware until unfortuneately the damage has been done already. An example, they can be on friendly terms with people, certain people will allow them in their company, presence, until sometime later, they become bothered or irritated by that persons presence, so at first they welcomed them in, but later they didn't want them around anymore, and the person with autism has no clue what they did wrong.

 

[Alexej]

I have been thinking more about this question and my relationships.

For me, there is a subtlety to the area where my lack expresses itself. With alexithymia or a lack of theory of mind there are issues in how I relate to others and how much I understand what is going on in the relationship. It takes conscious thought for me to achieve what NTs do automatically.

This manifests in coming across as uncaring at times, but in many other ways I come across as "normal".
I am still working this out - thank you for the posts

 

[Metalhead]

On the other hand, there was one woman who used to be in my life who violated every single personal boundary I put before her, and when I called her out on it, she would claim she was bipolar and therefore should not be held responsible.

 

[Jonn]

Anyone else hate that phrase?

I do get that it can be annoying when someone blames every single one of their personal problems on their autism but for most of us, we're not using our autism as an excuse, we're using it as an explanation for why we have difficulties with certain things.

NTs in particular don't understand that many on the spectrum are compulsively honest.
They confuse honesty with excuses.

 

[Jonn]

It takes conscious thought for me to achieve what NTs do automatically.

Do you mean you are using "Cognitive Empathy"?

 

[Jonn]

I agree that it is possible to use autism as an excuse. However, when is it telling it as it is - "I just don't get what you are feeling" due to a lack of empathy, and using it as an excuse. I sense that there is a fine line which has to do with motivation. I might try as best as I can to "get" what the other is saying but I just can't do it

It never ceases to amaze me how few ppl try to comprehend intent.
Understanding motivation is critical when communicating.

 

[Hypnalis]

On the other hand, there was one woman who used to be in my life who violated every single personal boundary I put before her, and when I called her out on it, she would claim she was bipolar and therefore should not be held responsible.

There's a grey area in terms in this thread that I think you captured nicely here.

Even if an excuse is provided, people need to be held accountable for their actions.

Accountability is somewhat associated with punishment, but they're not the same. (Though it's the the same as the terminology range that includes explanation, excuse, responsible for, accountable for, sanctioned for etc.

If people do bad things they need to stop. This includes anyone hiding behind an excuse. They can be sorry, and perhaps their apology is accepted . But only the first time, and only if there's a good case that the action was a mistake.
Repeats are different.

The means for changing behavior are many and varied.
It's usually considered that the sanctions should be in proportion to the nature and scale of the offense.
And that greater sanctions are appropriate in the case of repeats.

So what about an Aspie that keeps doing something bad, excuses it "because it's their nature", and doesn't change?

Are they completely off the hook? Not IMO if they are capable of participating in normal society, and want to do so.

We have the right to special consideration, but like all rights, it comes with responsibilities and limits.

Anyone who chooses to ignore those responsibilities and limits, and "weaponizes" their rights, deserves criticism.

And will certainly be criticized, and perhaps sanctioned, sooner or later. At that point it's too late for "the leopard to change its spots".

 

[Jonn]

If people do bad things they need to stop. This includes anyone hiding behind an excuse.

Personally speaking, ppl need to be better informed.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
There is a dark social underworld that most are unaware of, putting common sense morality "to the sword".

Having studied human psychology for most of my life, I realise that individuals have much less sovereignty than most think they have.
This is in large part due to gaslighting by the establishment.
"Justice is merely incidental to law and order."

Cryptic, I know...

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah i started a new thread, no replies yet, because 3 guys i've spoken to that have autism, they told me they have unfortuneately been labeled creepy stalkers, or have been accused of stalking or stalkerish behavior.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Jonn

Cluster B ASPD's and their "hangers-on" in the Dark Triad cause a hugely disproportionate amount of trouble.

And paradoxically, they're less constrained in today's society than they could be, while ordinary citizens are more constrained from acting for (defending) themselves. Not a good situation, especially because AFAIK we (ASDs) are statistically a bit more likely to be victimized than the population as a whole.

But we didn't cause this, and we can't fix it, so it's not our problem.

IMO it would help if young people got more training. But that won't happen soon.
If anything the opposite is happening.

 

[Princess Viola]

On the other hand, there was one woman who used to be in my life who violated every single personal boundary I put before her, and when I called her out on it, she would claim she was bipolar and therefore should not be held responsible.

I am reminded of a post I saw yesterday where someone was asking for good comebacks to use against the next homeless guy they encountered because they were throwing some trash away and there was a homeless guy there and the homeless guy got a bit annoyed and like grumbled something about how he was treated better in jail as he left.

And then when someone told them that they don't need a comeback for someone who's sleeping in trash, just be decent and move on with your life, they countered by saying that they were 'just doing what autistic people do' and don't try to pull the disability card against them, they have autism, ADHD, and PTSD.

????????????

(I should point out that no one even mentioned disability to this person, they just told them to be a decent human being and they seriously went NO, I am AUTISTIC)

 

[Judge]

I think this applies not only to autism but to any other condition, such as ocd.

Not surprising. Though my experience is that a vast majority of people can't even see those of us with OCD.

Easy to make fun of or ridicule something you can't really even see, let alone understand.

 

[AprilR]

I have never heard of this, since where i live people are not even aware that high functioning autism exists.

It sounds like people who say things like this are ignoring that autism is a developmental disorder and not just a personality quirk. "we are all a little bit autistic crew" so to speak