Autism: Nature, or nurture?

[WereBear]

Yes, it is possible. But, we can't be sure. Genetics diseases keep appearing regardless of the fact people who have it tend to die younger. Maybe autism doesn't have any purpose, and simply keeps appearing (because of mutations, crossing over...)

It's not a single gene. It is a cluster. And so, it works on proportion, similar to genes where it is single, like cystic fibrosis (protection from tuberculosis) and sickle cell anemia (protection from malaria.)

Get a single copy of each of these genes and you are actually healthier, because you can some resistance to endemic conditions of your native lands which can be passed on to offspring. Get both copies, and your health is worse, but in the relentless cold equations of genetics, your relatives are better off, and you are sacrificable. One out of four gets no extra disease protection, one out of four gets a health condition, two out of four gets protection from the endemic disease and possibly will nurse the sick ones in their family.

Autism is probably a more complicated setup as a gene cluster. It can be seen as a genetic tendency to grow "too many" cortical neurons, for instance, which brings in more sensory information and allows for more complicated thoughts, but can also be overwhelming, especially if a person is not recognized and trained in such... and we are just beginning to do that for a lucky few.

So Autism is a genetic advantage. Sometimes, it creates an eccentric and intelligent person who can achieve fine things given proper support, and sometimes it creates someone who is overwhelmed by circumstances, and sometimes it creates someone who might have "too many of these genes" and, like the cystic fibrosis or sickle cell patient, is at a marked disadvantage.

 

[OlLiE]

how about nature mitigated or aggravated by nurture

 

[Tom]

So, is the fear of mimes and the the fear of clowns the same fear, or two separate fears...?

They must be seperate, because clowns don't bother me. But its not that I fear Mimes. I dislike them.

 

[WereBear]

They must be seperate, because clowns don't bother me. But its not that I fear Mimes. I dislike them.

I fear clowns, and am annoyed by mimes.

Just say it! Quit making me work so hard! Use sign language! Get out of the glass box already!

 

[Anonymous]

What a coincidence! I just read an article that ties in with this quite nicely. https://www.sciencedaily.com/search...f=more:featured_research&gsc.sort=&gsc.page=5

This was a study done with rats determined to have traits similar to autism, and they found that if the rats were raised in a rather predictable environment, they would interact normally and socially acceptable on the scale of rat behavior that we can identify. Given that rat social patterns are still not completely known (they just discovered that they are capable of empathy and more tests are ongoing) they may be a little weird yet functional.
It is this and studies like this that make me believe that autism is a difference, a trait that could be either beneficial or harmful.
It is how society and our upbringing treats us that determines how the severity of our difficulties, for those of us who have the autistic genes. This is why it is sometimes considered a desiese.
This argument leaves to me this question. If our environment determines our difficulties, if we knew how to raise the LFA, how could they act in a regular society. Are we the ones oppressing their abilities? Do we need to further evolve before they can be raised to be seen as high functioning?
I, myself would have been in an asylum for life from an early age on if we did not have the knowledge of autism that we do today. I would have been considered low functioning, but I now can effectively disguise myself as normal.

 

[WorldSystemAutist]

I must say I am not an expert on biology or philosophy for that matter.

First, to answer the nature or nurture debate from a radical point of view: it is always nurture, no matter what. What is called "human nature", is the result of something else, because humans did not exist 10 millions years ago. Their existence comes from preexisting law of physics that were "left to work", creating new "pseudo laws of nature" from their interaction. Problem: how to reconcile this with quantum physics and the existence of random happenstances, meaning some pseudo laws would emerge at random, meaning you couldn't really deduce them from preexisting laws?
The answer I found: If you had infinite calculating capabilities, even if there are random happenstances, this randomness is still bound to some rules. You would be able to calculate every way fundamental laws could interact with one another, even if they could interact at random, you should be able to know when they can act at random. You could make the list of every possibility, and whatever happens in reality already exists in this list of possibilities.

We must take into account that "nature" is a spectrum, that "freedom" is a spectrum, etc. So, "Are humans programmed to have some behaviour at birth?"
Therefore raising the question: are you born autistic, or do you become autistic? You can replace autism with anything: are you born mentally ill, or do you become mentally ill? Are you not born mentally ill, but with a predisposition to it? Are you born with no predisposition, but become autistic because of environment?
I could say "You obey rules of physics, you're a result of rules of physics. Your behaviour is a result of rules of physics, you have no choice in the matter. "
The prevalence of behaviour in time is a mere matter of stability based on physical constraints.

Mind is software. When you're born, your brain is not empty.
If we had empty brains at birth, we would not be able to learn anything. It is the result of a particular structure of matter, our neural cells, who are computing thanks to the input given by the other cells. In the act of learning, your cells are told how to store information (by changing the structure of your brain), and what information to store. So, to some extent, yes you are programmed at birth, otherwise you'd be like pebble.
In that mindset, three ways for autism (or any mental illness) to emerge.
First : You are born with a particular brain structure that will make you think autistic, and when you will develop your behaviour (remember it is algorithmic), you will only consider autistic solutions to issues, like how to behave socially. Being autistic is a way to look at reality pre-determined by the code you were born with at birth that survived, and how the hell can autism exist if it's a handicap, it can be for various reasons : randomness (there are some "defects of evolution"), advantages of autism that compensate its disadvantages or the genes coding for autism also coding for something such as higher resistance to illness or whatever other explanation evolution theory can come up with.
Second : You aren't born autistic. By pure happenstance (environment), your brain will pick up "autistic solutions" to problems. Such as, "When around people, avoid them." (Having to deal with them consumes resources, you need to think on it, which can be considered as a burden). Or, it can be taught, by imitating others and it will "crystallize" into your sense of self.
Third: You are born with a bias towards autism, and it will be crystallized into your sense of self and behaviour with decrease in brain's plasticity. Environment can make you develop it faster. If brought up in the right environment, you could be normal, and only extreme environmental changes or a shattering of your sense of self can change it.
Quantifying the link between autism and genes is hard. We would have to find a few hundreds children of autistic parents who were raised by non-autistic parents. Could be interesting...

I wrote enough for now. I would like some insight from people who suffer from autism: what do you think caused autism for you? Edit :
When did you understand you were autistic? Can you remember times you didn't have any issues with it ?
And, if somebody finds faults in my reasoning, I'd like them pointed out, thanks.

Life is using Time/Space as unit but there is a number 3 the quantumechanics worlds so 1+1=2=3 in order to prevent either chaos and peace to fully dominate each other by the number 2.Since the entanglement rules is applied on life itself there is a infinite possibllities thus questions and anwsers running in a quantum loop like evolution does.In order to calculate u have to record all the metabolic reactions on this planet and that is the problem.Life cannot escape its own system cus its quantumbounded.And there is no end/end.Reallity is made in the space/time grid but the Quantum numbers are coming from the reactions that make life possible and so those numbers produced is actualy God cus that system cannot be controlled at all.This is why humans as "System" can do the most horrible things aswell.Quantums systems on this planet are: The Virusevolutiondrive aswell as the metabolic system(Ecosystems).There also cycles that say when humans would go make war also induced by the quantum loop theory.Only space bends.And time flows.We humans do it over and over again.

I end this quantum calculation from here cus as i said it goes into a loop if u continue. Well the quantum world is like the water medium atoms flow in also allowing time/space actions on living organism arcording to their metabolic profile(What it eats,behaves,enz all of it)Cus the quantum world is the actualy number 1 like the sun in our own solarsystem.And the blackhole in our milkyway.Its in a loop.

 

[SchrodingersMeerkat]

In my case, I think it's both. My mother sheltered and overprotected me to the point I didn't know how to fend for myself until my late twenties.

 

[Schism]

I've just found this thread so giving it a little update as this has just come up for me.
I get the feeling that my experience with trying to get an official diagnosis is they are very biased towards genetic!

But I am also aware from things I have read that a lot of severe autism, especially with LD may actually be actually brain damage from oxygen deprivation at birth. It's much easier for physicians to label it ASD then admit to culpable negligence. Go figure $$$

Likewise, unlike other mammals, when humans are born, we are still undeveloped, our brains haven't even finished growing physically hence soft skulls. So you can class post-womb development also as genetic & now also strongly influenced by nurture now out of that safer, buffered environment. But in all actuality, just how 'safe' is that (another topic perhaps).

Science has now shown genes can be turned on/off due to environmental factors, within the mothers womb and outside once born. There are no strict rules. Think cancer.

Thus, more recent research (there's tons) also states that the moment we (as very underdeveloped babies) are exposed to external sources also influence our developing brains, neural pathway connections and therefore subsequent behaviours; whether that be brain processes or later behaviour patterns. I think there's an age old quote that says something like: "Give me a 7 yr old boy & I'll show you the man". The 'Ology' Sciences also generally states our fundamental character & natural skills are fixed by aged 7. Anything learned after that is more difficult, more learned, so to speak.

Point I am suggesting here (I think) is that nature/nature exists & happens even after we are born . Therefore, excluding BD/LD through birth difficulties, autism could develop after birth, even genetically if those genes are 'switched' on by environmental factors?

Please don't go into quantum science debates, that's beyond what I hope to discuss here or fathom atm lol. Neither am I inclined to add links. I am not here to lecture but just curious about others thoughts on this?