Autism rate skyrockets to 1 in 14 children, 1 in 8 boys in parts of New Jersey

[Jordy]

Everything in the phenotype is result from genetics interacting with environment, to say that something does or does not have a genetic component does not make any sense.

Is the common cold genetic? If your genes give you bad protection it can be labeled as a genetic condition. You may say that its not genetic because it's because it originates from outside the body, but by that logic you wouldn't be able to say that thick bones are genetic either, since calcium also extracted from your environment. Your genes can't do anything on their own.

 

[Greatshield17]

Numerous twin studies have conclusively proven that autism is not genetic. When only the severest cases were diagnosed, twin studies found that genes contributed to over 80% of the risk of developing ASD but the rate drops to less than 50% for milder cases of ASD. Twin studies found that genes contribute to 50% of the risk of developing depression and anxiety but people have fully recovered from those mental health disorders with talk therapy alone which proves they aren't genetic conditions despite genes increasing the risk of developing them. Cases of identical twins where one twin is autistic and the other isn't which shows that genes are merely a risk factor for ASD but do not cause the symptoms.

I am not sure the effectiveness of "talk therapy" does actually prove that depression isn't a genetic condition. It could also be true that the neurological conditions that help ensure the effectiveness of talk therapy, could also be genetic, and comorbid with a genetic predisposition to depression.

I hear that depression and anxiety are "treatable" but I think to claim it can be "cured" is improbable. I don't think someone could just turn off my ability to worry, obsess or fixate. CBT techniques etc might help me to slow down the worries, or try and divert my attention from it. But I still instinctively react to most things in life with a negative mindset. Asides from animals and nature. Well, unless it's roadkill of people's litter in beautiful places.

Ed

I could be totally off and cynical here, but do you think the view of level 1 Autism & it’s manageability as “less Autistic,” and the view of levels 2, 3 etc., being “more Autistic” might’ve actually influenced these genetic studies and their outcome; and thus rendered it so that levels 2, 3 etc., are viewed as being more influenced by genes, than level 1 Autism?

By the way @Suzette was your son diagnosed with Autism? How likely is it for an Autistic parent or Autistic parents to have Autistic children? It’s well known that parents with Autistic traits are more likely to have Autistic children.

All this of course gets into another discussion I had elsewhere on here as to whether Autistic is genetic and been around for awhile, or whether it’s caused by modern pollutants: Autism before its discovery

 

[Suzette]

I think if I wasn't stuck in these office jobs and could sell enough from my art and photography to do it full time - then my mental health would improve dramatically. As it stands, I've been stuck in 17 years in jobs I hate and my mental health is steadily declining, as is my patience, tolerance and compassion.

Ed

Off topic but my former husband quit his job to become a full time landscape painter. He had only done a couple of paintings before he quit. Within a year he was earning about 2/3 his former salary. He is a jerk but I do admire him for that! Still, within another year he was depressed again and stopped painting and took a low level job for a data firm.

A few points, 1. Taking intiative and believing you will be sucessful is more important that skill. 2. What you are actually doing is less important to your mental health than your attitude about what you are doing.

 

[Ken]

I am not sure the effectiveness of "talk therapy" does actually prove that depression isn't a genetic condition. It could also be true that the neurological conditions that help ensure the effectiveness of talk therapy, could also be genetic, and comorbid with a genetic predisposition to depression.

I hear that depression and anxiety are "treatable" but I think to claim it can be "cured" is improbable. I don't think someone could just turn off my ability to worry, obsess or fixate. CBT techniques etc might help me to slow down the worries, or try and divert my attention from it. But I still instinctively react to most things in life with a negative mindset. Asides from animals and nature. Well, unless it's roadkill of people's litter in beautiful places.

Ed

I agree with both @Suzette and @Raggamuffin because of the manner in which my depression hits. It hits without warning or any evidence of alignment with any situation or experience. Some times it does but I think that is a different form of depression. The one that I'm referring to here hits as a sudden rush feeling throughout my body as if I just witnessed a tragic, morbid event, as if I just saw my house suddenly explode in a ball of fire with all of my loved ones inside. But, that rush feeling is not connected to anything. It can hit anytime without warning. I can be in a very calm setting, completely at ease with no negative thoughts. From that point on, everything is perceived as tragic. It may last a week or a month. I feel absolutely certain that there is no talking going to fix that. It feels to me like a neurological "crosstalk" triggering something in the amygdala for an extended period of time.

 

[Raggamuffin]

The wording on that study intro is a little strong imo:

"Autism is known as a severe pervasive neurodevelopmental disorder with poor prognosis."

No mention of it being a spectrum with different degrees of severity. Seems a bit too cut and shut for me.

Ed

 

[Suzette]

the way @Suzette was your son diagnosed with Autism? How likely is it for an Autistic parent or Autistic parents to have Autistic children? It’s well known that parents with Autistic traits are more likely to have Autistic children

No, we never had my son formally tested. But he did take the A.Q. and Aspie Quiz tests at my urging. Interestingly, though he answered some questions as an n.d. might, he was quite easily a solid n.t. on both tests.

I think also that we (society) think of the a.s.d. designations in terms of functionality. Quite clearly a.s.d. 3 would be someone with significant challenges, but I recently came across a YouTuber who discussed his a.s.d. 2 designation. He is another engineer and had reached adulthood with a highly sucessful career even though he is a.s.d. 2. So the numbers, I think, are not something we can say always correlate to functioning levels based on casual observation.

 

[Butterfly88]

I'm in New Jersey and for a while the rates have been higher here. Yet my area still doesn't many services for autistic adults, which seems weird to me. I think they are more focused on children and early intervention.

 

[Suzette]

I agree with both @Suzette and @Raggamuffin because of the manner in which my depression hits. It hits without warning or any evidence of alignment with any situation or experience. Some times it does but I think that is a different form of depression. The one that I'm referring to here hits as a sudden rush feeling throughout my body as if I just witnessed a tragic, morbid event, as if I just saw my house suddenly explode in a ball of fire with all of my loved ones inside. But, that rush feeling is not connected to anything. It can hit anytime without warning. I can be in a very calm setting, completely at ease with no negative thoughts. From that point on, everything is perceived as tragic. It may last a week or a month. I feel absolutely certain that there is no talking going to fix that. It feels to me like a neurological "crosstalk" triggering something in the amygdala for an extended period of time.

Ken, I do not have any real exprience with what you describe exactly. But I used to have attacks that I think of as panic attacks. They were immediate, disassociative events that included physical symptoms like racing heart, flushing and sweating, as well as feelings of doom. I no longer experience this and have intellectualized the symptoms as an over active amygdala. I wonder if an over active amygdala might be, at least partially, responsible for your symptoms? Just my uneducated opinion of course but a neurologist might be more helpful to you than a psychologist!

 

[Ken]

Ken, I do not have any real exprience with what you describe exactly. But I used to have attacks that I think of as panic attacks. They were immediate, disassociative events that included physical symptoms like racing heart, flushing and sweating, as well as feelings of doom. I no longer experience this and have intellectualized the symptoms as an over active amygdala. I wonder if an over active amygdala might be, at least partially, responsible for your symptoms? Just my uneducated opinion of course but a neurologist might be more helpful to you than a psychologist!

Yes, I think it is an overactive amygdala, but it's the way and the circumstances when it hits that makes me think it is a "cross-wiring" issue. For what its worth; just the way it feels.

I'm never prone to panic attacks even under circumstances where it would be considered appropriate. When this hits, it does not make me react in a panic form. I don't feel like something is urgent; no rapid pulse, respiration, etc., just profoundly sad. As if everything - my life - is gone, even thought I know it isn't. Perhaps it's not the amygdala and is another part of the brain. Amygdala is just what came to mind.

I also consider the cross-wiring thing because I already have another diagnosed cross-wired neurological issues. My hearing defect is not a physical issue my ears; it's cross-wired neurons in the brain. Really confuses audiologists!

I've had this occur throughout my life at seemingly the same rate regardless of age, life circumstances, stress levels, etc. I suppose most everyone can suffer from situational depression, which I do on occasion (and yes, talking can help that), but this is different.

 

[Tom]

Numerous twin studies have conclusively proven that autism is not genetic. When only the severest cases were diagnosed, twin studies found that genes contributed to over 80% of the risk of developing ASD but the rate drops to less than 50% for milder cases of ASD. Twin studies found that genes contribute to 50% of the risk of developing depression and anxiety but people have fully recovered from those mental health disorders with talk therapy alone which proves they aren't genetic conditions despite genes increasing the risk of developing them. Cases of identical twins where one twin is autistic and the other isn't which shows that genes are merely a risk factor for ASD but do not cause the symptoms.

I have to contest your main point. All the studies I have seen (including twin studies) assert the opposite - autism is genetic and can be handed down from parent(s) to child. But it is not the only way for it to develop. Environmental influences and certain physilogical conditions can also produce genetic variations that lead to autism.

 

[Matthias]

Twin studies have shown the exact opposite, actually. The correlation between autistic traits in one twin vs the other among monozygotic twins is .98, which is almost perfect, and in fact within the range of correlation you'd expect for retesting the same child multiple times.

Different studies have different results. One study found that "If one identical twin has autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the other twin has a 76 percent chance of also being diagnosed with it." I think the fact that 24% of people in the study did not have ASD despite their identical twin with the exact same genes having ASD proves it's not genetic.

Source: Twins Study Finds Large Genetic Influence in Autism | Interactive Autism Network

They also concluded:
"High levels of autism symptoms are genetic in origin. Less severe symptoms are not as likely to be inherited."

 

[Matthias]

Everything in the phenotype is result from genetics interacting with environment, to say that something does or does not have a genetic component does not make any sense.

Is the common cold genetic? If your genes give you bad protection it can be labeled as a genetic condition. You may say that its not genetic because it's because it originates from outside the body, but by that logic you wouldn't be able to say that thick bones are genetic either, since calcium also extracted from your environment. Your genes can't do anything on their own.

The common cold is caused by a virus so it's not genetic. The strength of your immune system, which affects whether you will catch a cold when exposed to the cold virus, is partly influenced by your genes and partly influenced by your environment. Less than 5% of medical conditions are considered genetic. Most result from interactions between genes and the environment.

 

[Greatshield17]

No, we never had my son formally tested. But he did take the A.Q. and Aspie Quiz tests at my urging. Interestingly, though he answered some questions as an n.d. might, he was quite easily a solid n.t. on both tests.

I think also that we (society) think of the a.s.d. designations in terms of functionality. Quite clearly a.s.d. 3 would be someone with significant challenges, but I recently came across a YouTuber who discussed his a.s.d. 2 designation. He is another engineer and had reached adulthood with a highly sucessful career even though he is a.s.d. 2. So the numbers, I think, are not something we can say always correlate to functioning levels based on casual observation.

Interesting, if this isn’t too personal for me to ask, what is it like raising an NT?

Yeah, I’ve seen people on here say that they think they may have been misdiagnosed, that they may actually be level 2 as opposed to level 1.

 

[Matthias]

I could be totally off and cynical here, but do you think the view of level 1 Autism & it’s manageability as “less Autistic,” and the view of levels 2, 3 etc., being “more Autistic” might’ve actually influenced these genetic studies and their outcome; and thus rendered it so that levels 2, 3 etc., are viewed as being more influenced by genes, than level 1 Autism?

Studies have looked at varying degrees of autism. When studies only looked at the severest cases of autism they concluded the risk was almost entirely due to genetics . When they looked at milder cases of autism, the environment had a significant effect on the risk of developing autism.

 

[Greatshield17]

Different studies have different results. One study found that "If one identical twin has autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the other twin has a 76 percent chance of also being diagnosed with it." I think the fact that 24% of people in the study did not have ASD despite their identical twin with the exact same genes having ASD proves it's not genetic.

Source: Twins Study Finds Large Genetic Influence in Autism | Interactive Autism Network

They also concluded:
"High levels of autism symptoms are genetic in origin. Less severe symptoms are not as likely to be inherited."

Do they say why they came to that conclusion, that level 1 and maybe 2 are less likely to be influenced by genes while maybe level 2 and certainly level 3 and up are?

 

[Matthias]

Do they say why they came to that conclusion, that level 1 and maybe 2 are less likely to be influenced by genes while maybe level 2 and certainly level 3 and up are?

They look at pairs of identical twins. When one identical twin has severe autism, their identical twin is almost always autistic. When one identical twin has milder autism, their identical twin is less likely to be autistic which suggests the environment also contributed to their risk of developing autism.

 

[Suzette]

Interesting, if this isn’t too personal for me to ask, what is it like raising an NT?

Yeah, I’ve seen people on here say that they think they may have been misdiagnosed, that they may actually be level 2 as opposed to level 1.

I do not think he actually is n.t. He is most certainly n.d. if not actually on the spectrum. Though he seems to lack the social anxiety that marks many of us.

So why do I think he n.d.?
Obsession with geography
Prone to wearing the same thing day in and day out
Second guessing / indecisiveness
Sensitivity to loud sound as a child, less as an adult
Hyperlexia
Stubborn, contrarian, independent thinker
Feels "alien"
Has close friends but prefers to see them individuallly, not in groups
As a child had a hyper focus on windmills, blade fans of all kinds, at one time had a collection of 30 oscillating fans in our 900 sq ft house.
Collected the entire Miles Davis collection by age 9

--------
Other things that may or may not be related:
Breech birth
Difficult pregnancy
Was very difficult to soothe as a baby

In many ways he fits the stereotype of an autistic person than I do. The biggest difference between us (besides age and gender) is that I exhibit cognitive and executive functioning difficulties and he does not. Also, I have social anxiety.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Regarding the identical twin discussion: Although it is true that identical twins share the same DNA, gene expression can be different between twins. In addition, intrauterine blood flow (and subsequent nutrient and hormonal delivery) may differ. The language "environmental factors" in some cases, may be referring to the intrauterine environment, and not external maternal exposures,...be careful with the context. In the case where both identical twins have autism or any other potentially genetic condition, it could be purely genetic, the maternal hormonal milieu, and/or the possibility of external environmental contributors. In the case where only one identical twin is affected, it appears less likely to be an external environmental or genetic issue, and more of an intrauterine environmental issue that affects gene transcription.

https://www.endocrineweb.com/identical-twins-not-so-identical-after-all

 

[LadyS]

Not sure if this is pertinent but me and my son were diagnosed ASD within months of each other. My older brother just recently and now we suspect at the very least my dad, who seems to show many of the behaviorial signs as well, although he'll never be formally diagnosed due to lack of English skills and knowledge of childhood history. But all of us level 1. So far everything points to genetics in my case. And I noticed many of the traits in my son from as early as a newborn.

I also agree with the notion of an increase in ASD awareness thus more being diagnosed. There are so many countries and cultures out there that still don't recognize mental or neurological health as a thing. I come from one of them, from a country with the 2nd highest population worldwide. I can only imagine how many go undiagnosed ...

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Not sure if this is pertinent but me and my son were diagnosed ASD within months of each other. My older brother just recently and now we suspect at the very least my dad, who seems to show many of the behaviorial signs as well, although he'll never be formally diagnosed due to lack of English skills and knowledge of childhood history. But all of us level 1. So far everything points to genetics in my case. And I noticed many of the traits in my son from as early as a newborn.

I also agree with the notion of an increase in ASD awareness thus more being diagnosed. There are so many countries and cultures out there that still don't recognize mental or neurological health as a thing. I come from one of them, from a country with the 2nd highest population worldwide. I can only imagine how many go undiagnosed ...

Are you from India?