Autism without Alexithymia?

[Sarah S]

As I was getting my diagnosis the professional used the Raads test (it may have been the unrevised version which is what the last R indicates). However, he was using it as a source of input to his evaluation and not as an absolute yes/no test.

Just a reflection on the use of this test

As i said its ONE of the possible tools often used by the professionals for a diagnose (its actually constructed here in Sweden by our karolinska hospital NP diagnose department WELL known and accepted within this field world wide )


I dident know that tho thanks for sharing that info

 

[Smoosh]

Yes its often fine that you say this to anyone you really can engage with long enough and fully enough to explain what you are saying, such as friends or family sometimes.

However, at first you may not feel competent to fully explain, so even that can be hard. People who love you tend to be accepting, but sometimes they say stuff like of course it's fine you are fine, don't be afraid to say who you are, from a position of ignorance of what that will actually mean for you in the wider world with others who love you less than they do, or even don't like or care about you much.

Save being bold for when you feel confident and at ease with yourself around this, and even then I still wouldn't share it at work.

I appreciate the heads-up; honestly, I intend to be selective about who I tell, in large part because even among those who know me well, I anticipate reactions of disbelief and even maybe arguing, since I absolutely do not fit the typical picture of a "real" autistic person and most of what I'm experiencing as "not fitting in" happens entirely internally. At the same time, I do agree with Sarah S, in that people keeping their diagnoses to themselves, while totally understandable, does nothing to broaden people's view of what autism actually is, and that's something I'd like to contribute when I am feeling a little more sure of myself regarding where I stand on the spectrum. I don't imagine it will be some magic "Aha! Now I understand your nuanced mind perfectly!" solution to tell people about this; more that I think I would feel more able to stand my ground and speak up when a particular process or piece of advice that doesn't work for me is pushed on me. When appropriate, I think it could help people to appreciate that they really might not know what is best for me, given that I might be physiologically quite different from them.

That said, I'm a self-employed artist, so I don't have a "workplace" so to speak, and eccentricity is generally better received (in theory at least) among artists and performers like me than in the general population, I think.

 

[Smoosh]

And Smoosh may i suggest in the mean time you do some On line tests for both ASD as well as ADHD (the ASD tests you see in my Signature so just do search on said name ) Keep in mind this that neither of them are a diagnose tool and only a cert evalution can determan IF and if so what diagnosis you might have.

The RAADS-R test is however also well known and widley acknowledged diagnose TOOL (ONE of them not all ) for the pro`s to use and add in to a possible diagnose of ASD so that would give you a strong hint that you might actually have ASD. And it would be worth it to get a professional evaluation

The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R)

Thanks so much for this! I took this test and came out within the margin for possible ASD, with most sub-areas also being within that margin, but very low within those margins. My overall score was 73. Similarly with the other tests in your signature, on Aspie Quiz I came out "probably neurotypical" (though with higher and lower than average scores in many different categories) and on AQ I was exactly on the cusp between "average" and "borderline/Aspergers". These tools are very interesting, but once again I often find it hard to know what to make of the results, since they lump traits that it seems are actually alexithymic in with everything else and then use that as a big part of the assessment. I also find that I consistently come out as overall looking neurotypical because my results in terms of communication and social sensitivity are way higher than average, even for neurotypical people. Like I said before, I am VERY empathic and sensitive, and language is one of my major areas of "special interest". I have a definite linguistic gift and speak 6 different languages, so of course I am not really going to have much trouble expressing myself.

Overall, I find it hard to feel confident one way or another, because I don't really feel meaningfully impaired by the things about me that are different. It's more that it just makes me feel isolated, because the world expects me to be different than I am. I know what is expected of me, so I don't really "struggle" with much - it can just feel kind of fake and exhausting at times. Many of the questions, I find, are worded in an "I have trouble with . . . " way, which I find hard to answer, because I've learned how to do many of these things "normally", so I can't really say I "have trouble" with them . . . I just recognize that, left to my own devices, I might be a little different. So formulaic tests are hard for me to know how to interpret.

 

[Smoosh]

Yes try reading one or two of those books by women with Autism, one woman was discussing how she was working with autism issues for years, and her male partner had autism, but only latterly realised that this applied to her, due to the combination of having some skills and abilities that didn't seem to fit, and being well functioning and coping. Common experience for women with ASD1.

Oh, and I forgot - do you happen to remember which book/author this was?

 

[Sarah S]

="Smoosh, post: 710465, member: 21925"]Thanks so much for this! I took this test and came out within the margin for possible ASD, with most sub-areas also being within that margin, but very low within those margins. My overall score was 73.

" Okey well then IF you indeed have ASD it means you most lightly will be ASD 1 ( formally known as Asbergers , or MILD Autism ) "

Similarly with the other tests in your signature, on Aspie Quiz I came out "probably neurotypical" (though with higher and lower than average scores in many different categories)

" Again same as i said above "

and on AQ I was exactly on the cusp between "average" and "borderline/Aspergers".

" I see "

These tools are very interesting, but once again I often find it hard to know what to make of the results, since they lump traits that it seems are actually alexithymic in with everything else and then use that as a big part of the assessment. I also find that I consistently come out as overall looking neurotypical because my results in terms of communication and social sensitivity are way higher than average, even for neurotypical people.

" If you remember when i told you DONT compare youre self to much to us in here nor others in reel life ? Like you i dont either fit the " overall mold" of ASD 3 and how we are suppose to be or indeed not any other of my main NP diagnosis. (not to mention social sensitivity is actually ONE of the more common traits (not all gets it but many ) of Female Asbergers) Just because this tests cant really determan this ( as they shouldent they are only meant as heads up and guidance tool for you and professionals) . As the tests also said you MIGHT have ASD = meaning its worth it to get a evaluation and check it up. Also meaning youre scores are within the scores that many later diagnosed with ASD had "

Like I said before, I am VERY empathic and sensitive,

" Same here "

and language is one of my major areas of "special interest". I have a definite linguistic gift and speak 6 different languages, so of course I am not really going to have much trouble expressing myself.

" im Self toght on English (well more US englich hence its a mix of both proper queens englich and Us version ) Both speaking fluently & writing. The ONE part in my IQ test is my Verbal understanding which is on paper average but apparently according to the tester in the lower region ) & YET here i am writing englich (its my flipping Learning disabilities that messes things up in my spelling and so on in my brain its all clear ) "

Overall, I find it hard to feel confident one way or another, because I don't really feel meaningfully impaired by the things about me that are different. It's more that it just makes me feel isolated, because the world expects me to be different than I am. I know what is expected of me, so I don't really "struggle" with much - it can just feel kind of fake and exhausting at times.

" Thats struggling as well my friend "

Many of the questions, I find, are worded in an "I have trouble with . . . " way, which I find hard to answer, because I've learned how to do many of these things "normally", so I can't really say I "have trouble" with them . . .

" Its known as masking dear and like you i also learnt how to deal with things and try my best to mask my difficulties "

I just recognize that, left to my own devices, I might be a little different. So formulaic tests are hard for me to know how to interpret.

" Same here my friend i have struggled with written tests ALL my life "

 

[Thinx]

Oh, and I forgot - do you happen to remember which book/author this was?

Sandra Hendrickx Women and Girls on the autism spectrum, and another interesting and useful one was by Karen McGibbin, plus there's plenty more now, quite an explosion of them.

 

[Kalinychta]

Hi @Smoosh.



Yaas, I call my imaginary world my paracosm.

What a fabulous word! I had to look it up. I’d never heard it before.

 

[Kalinychta]

Thank you, this is very helpful to know. I often struggle to feel like the way descriptions of autism resonate with me is valid, because I am SO far from the "Rainman" type that people (including, it seems, many mental health professionals) associate with "real" autism. I would like to be assessed and seek a diagnosis with a properly trained professional, but where I am assessments for adults can only be done by a private practitioner and they cost between $2000-$4000. I don't have that kind of money to spare .

I reckon that’s why there are so many “self-diagnosed” people on the forum. Many people simply can’t afford a formal analysis.

 

[Crossbreed]

("Alexithymia" sounds like a girl's name...

)

 

[Smoosh]

="Smoosh, post: 710465, member: 21925"]Thanks so much for this! I took this test and came out within the margin for possible ASD, with most sub-areas also being within that margin, but very low within those margins. My overall score was 73.

" Okey well then IF you indeed have ASD it means you most lightly will be ASD 1 ( formally known as Asbergers , or MILD Autism ) "

Similarly with the other tests in your signature, on Aspie Quiz I came out "probably neurotypical" (though with higher and lower than average scores in many different categories)

" Again same as i said above "

and on AQ I was exactly on the cusp between "average" and "borderline/Aspergers".

" I see "

These tools are very interesting, but once again I often find it hard to know what to make of the results, since they lump traits that it seems are actually alexithymic in with everything else and then use that as a big part of the assessment. I also find that I consistently come out as overall looking neurotypical because my results in terms of communication and social sensitivity are way higher than average, even for neurotypical people.

" If you remember when i told you DONT compare youre self to much to us in here nor others in reel life ? Like you i dont either fit the " overall mold" of ASD 3 and how we are suppose to be or indeed not any other of my main NP diagnosis. (not to mention social sensitivity is actually ONE of the more common traits (not all gets it but many ) of Female Asbergers) Just because this tests cant really determan this ( as they shouldent they are only meant as heads up and guidance tool for you and professionals) . As the tests also said you MIGHT have ASD = meaning its worth it to get a evaluation and check it up. Also meaning youre scores are within the scores that many later diagnosed with ASD had "

Like I said before, I am VERY empathic and sensitive,

" Same here "

and language is one of my major areas of "special interest". I have a definite linguistic gift and speak 6 different languages, so of course I am not really going to have much trouble expressing myself.

" im Self toght on English (well more US englich hence its a mix of both proper queens englich and Us version ) Both speaking fluently & writing. The ONE part in my IQ test is my Verbal understanding which is on paper average but apparently according to the tester in the lower region ) & YET here i am writing englich (its my flipping Learning disabilities that messes things up in my spelling and so on in my brain its all clear ) "

Overall, I find it hard to feel confident one way or another, because I don't really feel meaningfully impaired by the things about me that are different. It's more that it just makes me feel isolated, because the world expects me to be different than I am. I know what is expected of me, so I don't really "struggle" with much - it can just feel kind of fake and exhausting at times.

" Thats struggling as well my friend "

Many of the questions, I find, are worded in an "I have trouble with . . . " way, which I find hard to answer, because I've learned how to do many of these things "normally", so I can't really say I "have trouble" with them . . .

" Its known as masking dear and like you i also learnt how to deal with things and try my best to mask my difficulties "

I just recognize that, left to my own devices, I might be a little different. So formulaic tests are hard for me to know how to interpret.

" Same here my friend i have struggled with written tests ALL my life "

Thanks for your in-depth reply, I appreciate the time and honesty . I took Thinx's suggestion to check out that publisher, and as of yesterday came home with a few books on ASD in women and girls, as well as ADHD in women and girls. At first I felt sceptical that what was being described in Sarah Hendrickx's book would apply to me, but after reading the chapter about signs of ASD in young girls, I began to feel quite strongly that the "particular" way I was as a kid very much fit into the descriptions in the book: watching and re-watching my favourite movies over and over again (like literally watching, rewinding, and watching again, over and over), reading the same book over and over, preferring the company of adults, having intense "one friend, best friend" relationships all throughout childhood, listening to same song over and over . . . the last one I still do - and even just listening to the same 10 seconds of the same song, over and over and over, like I'm "gripped" by it and can't let go. I'm quite private about my listening habits for this reason, as I know it's weird and I get embarrassed.

I also took the time to read up just now on what you mentioned about heightened social sensitivity in women and girls with Aspergers, and wow - I immediately came across a website talking about Aspie females often sensing the "emotional atmosphere" way more intensely than usual, having an emotional 6th sense, experiencing "referred emotion" of others, seeing through others in ways NT people don't. I have absolutely experienced every single one of these things, in fact it's a huge (and often lonely) part of my day-to-day to sort through all this information that seems to be invisible to other people, and I always thought that this was an indication against ASD/autism, since it often leads to actually heightened social and interpersonal insight, but now I feel more convinced than ever that I am on the right track! Hoping to pick up a copy of the book "Autism and the Edges of the Known World", and very curious and excited to possibly see experiences that have always led me to feel both brilliantly gifted/wise and simultaneously crazy talked about like they are real, for once!

 

[laurainthesky]

I work in mental health, and I am great at my job. Thus I never considered ASD until my daughter was diagnosed. I have a lot of empathy, and I care a lot for other people. I can't read people, but I don't usually need to when patients tell me what I need to know. Perhaps being unable to read people forces me to fully listen without judgement. I did score a 114 on that RAADS test. I am very very clumsy in social settings and an introvert.

 

[Sarah S]

I work in mental health, and I am great at my job. Thus I never considered ASD until my daughter was diagnosed. I have a lot of empathy, and I care a lot for other people. I can't read people, but I don't usually need to when patients tell me what I need to know. Perhaps being unable to read people forces me to fully listen without judgement. I did score a 114 on that RAADS test. I am very very clumsy in social settings and an introvert.

One thing i always say is who better to understand people like us then one that actually IS one of us ( who has this and or or similar NP (or other ) diagnosis ) ? Obviously less level or complications of course