Autistics not helping the cause challenging myths

[Misty Avich]

I don't like the school shooter stereotype. Well, it would help if every recent public killer didn't keep getting diagnosed with autism or already being diagnosed. I feel that no matter how resentful and angry one is, it has to take an absolute psychopath with evil within to actually pick up a knife or a gun and go out consciously planning to actually commit a massacre to innocent adults and/or children. And autism doesn't typically make people be like that.

I have angry hang-ups with things that I'm resentful about, but I am not planning on killing anybody because of it. My brain automatically does not allow me to even think of harming anybody, no matter how much I hate them. Yes, we all say that we wish someone we hate was dead or that we want to punch them, but if we have never actually threatened to act on it, and also if those thoughts only briefly occur when really triggered by your enemies, then that's quite normal. Otherwise, I know I'm 100% not a danger to myself or others no matter how angry and frustrated I get. I don't even hurt myself during a meltdown. Some people cut their wrists and stuff like that but I've never done that either. Something in my brain just stops me, and I think that is true for all humans that aren't dangerous evil psychopaths.

 

[Rachie]

Some people are sensitive to certain topics, while others may like the topic and maybe there is nothing evil about it, is understandable i think. Maybe i have posted something that 'triggered your fears' the other time from what you talk about, it was not my intention.

You have never posted anything I didn't think was ok.
I was above just trying to think why there could be most likely things said about some autistics. There are many more I didn't get as well. This is about debunking things. It was nothing to do with you at all but I was trying to come with some possible reasons what could be reasons to things. Rest assured.
I agreed with what you posted here and thought it was a good point. Confusion eh. I totally agree with you good point.

 

[Rachie]

It may be worth keeping in mind that advantages and disadvantages exist everywhere in our lives. Autistic issues are only one of hundreds, even thousands of other conditions, from physical disabilities, to poverty, environmental damage, etc etc.

All these things need to be expressed statistically to be able to rationalise and understand, which is needed if real improvements are desired, to direct the efforts and resources those improvements would need to be effective.

So the old expression "lies damn lies and statistics" (and any variations on that theme) are down to the fact that few people understand statistics very well, making them easy to employ as tools of misinformation. Whether directed at us (autistic people) or we just pick up on that because of it's relevance to us, it can be very unhelpful and give an impression of things that may well not reflect everyone's reality.

Without those statistics, the could be only limited improvements made, they are a necessary evil, but as they say, the map is not the territory. The statistics are not the actual truth of the matter, they are just a way of measuring certain factors to quantify them for other purposes.


Just as an aside - I'm fascinated with weapons, and have been as long as I can be aware of. But the idea of using one to needlessly hurt or kill a living thing makes me sick to my stomach. It's an intellectual fascination with a tool that's shaped much of our current society and culture - weapons were likely one of the earliest examples of tool use, but it doesn't necessarily mean I get any kind of pleasure from the thought of using one (though I readily admit some people do).

Great points thank you the voice of reason, we needed it.

 

[Rachie]

I couldn't bring myself to write most likely to be a rapist and possible reasons so switched to say they had an interest in weapons. They could have had an interest in killing ok. This could be a special interest....That is not a good one. A lot of people have interests. Perhaps they could be lonely but NT are too...So this is about noone but trying to use less sharp words.

I have no idea I am just considering why and looking for reasons. Several I put out there.

 

[Misty Avich]

Where did you see that autism and being rapists? I know I put autistic people are more likely to become victims of rapists, although those weren't my words, it was just what I've seen stated on forums before. I don't think I posted that we're more likely to become rapists, although if I did then it definitely wasn't my words, it was merely a rant against such biased stuff I hear about autistics, by autistics. Like when someone once said that autistics are more likely to become terrorists because we can be brainwashed and all that. The OP is right, people saying these things on the internet about autistic people doesn't really paint us in a very positive light. If we're supposed to be intelligent and individual thinkers then how on earth are we more likely to become part of a terrorist cult?

Does the Downs syndrome community have all these assumptions or stereotypes, or is it just the autism community?

 

[Rachie]

Where did you see that autism and being rapists? I know I put autistic people are more likely to become victims of rapists, although those weren't my words, it was just what I've seen stated on forums before. I don't think I posted that we're more likely to become rapists, although if I did then it definitely wasn't my words, it was merely a rant against such biased stuff I hear about autistics, by autistics. Like when someone once said that autistics are more likely to become terrorists because we can be brainwashed and all that. The OP is right, people saying these things on the internet about autistic people doesn't really paint us in a very positive light. If we're supposed to be intelligent and individual thinkers then how on earth are we more likely to become part of a terrorist cult?

Does the Downs syndrome community have all these assumptions or stereotypes, or is it just the autism community?

Hi Misty I saw about some autistics most likely to be rapists on this forum. It was linked to in your own post that you will find that I linked to. For in that I think not even checking back again it shows it most likely to be rapists and I thought it was most likely and I have seen it in other autistic forums again NAS when cases came out? All the words amount to the same thing and that is why I am responding. I said most likely (some) as I know already it is not all yes and this as delicately as I can go. Most likely or more likely is the same thing to me and no this probably been going on before any of us came to internet.

 

[tree]

Rather than making blind statements, I believe 'checking back again'
to provide documentation would be preferable for posts on this site.

 

[Boogs]

Great points thank you the voice of reason, we needed it.

Well, it's one viewpoint, and how I see things, but I'm sure there are other ways to look at it.

 

[Misty Avich]

Hi Misty I saw about some autistics most likely to be rapists on this forum. It was linked to in your own post that you will find that I linked to. For in that I think not even checking back again it shows it most likely to be rapists and I thought it was most likely and I have seen it in other autistic forums again NAS when cases came out? All the words amount to the same thing and that is why I am responding. I said most likely (some) as I know already it is not all yes and this as delicately as I can go. Most likely or more likely is the same thing to me and no this probably been going on before any of us came to internet.

I checked and I did not see that I had put that autistics are more likely to be rapists.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Im quite surprised. I get the feeling that any choice will be seen as bad by some person. Like some people need to read/listen exactly what they want or in the way they want so they dont ger hurt/upset. Maybe im wrong.

If there is no info: Oh my god, I didnt know about that. If only I had known...

If there is info: Oh my god! I wish I didnt know...

If info is accurate and have links: Oh, info spam. Scientific nerds. Not reading.

So I will keep it short. As autism is mostly genetic, check with your family. Does your family have cancer issues? Does your family have that X issue that worries you?

Its ok to check global stadistics, but your own family stadistics may give you more accurate info.

 

[Boogs]

Wikipedia says:

"'Lies, damned lies, and statistics' is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments, "one of the best, and best-known" critiques of applied statistics."

Statistics are a mathematical tool to enable certain tasks to be done better, just as trigonometry allows better design and construction of geometric forms. But that doesn't mean a shape is the same as an object made using that shape in it's design. Statistics, relative to human nature, are easily misrepresented and/or misconstrued. When the resulting number (statistic) is not given the context of how it's created, it's ambiguous and can be read in countless ways, none of which represent it's original nature.

Suppose 20% of people have committed a crime. Someone could interpret that as saying that of every five people they meet, one of them will be a danger to them. And yet they've not analysed what those 20% were guilty of, and the circumstance, how the statistics were generated, what biases they may have, etc etc. and become paranoid about their safety all the time they are around other people.

But their view is irrational and undemonstrated (being humans and subject to human behaviours). When you take a statistical result or a mathematically derived data to decide on an emotional response, the translation between that number and the feelings that are generated are much more to do with the person than with the number or what it represents, and highly subjective rather than objective, but the idea it's come from irrefutable math makes many feel it must represent a truth of some sorts, which is not necessarily the case in their context.

I know this is a rigid, unemotional and dissociated style of answer and may not chime with the strength of feelings (of all kinds) that these things can trigger in many people (I include myself btw), but it's the only way I can express it, but I understand it's not a trivial intellectual discussion but rather something deeply unsettling (or worse) for some. I'm not demeaning that (deliberately, at least) at all.

 

[Misty Avich]

Being on autism sites for almost 15 years, I've heard it all. One time someone brought up the topic of autistic people are more likely to get Parkinson's or Alzheimer's. But I once read out of a book - that was from a very reliable source and is what many doctors use - a bar chart thing that showed who is more likely to get Alzheimer's, and the statistics said Downs syndrome, alcoholics, drug dependents, and a few other things that I can't remember but nothing mentioned autism.

Yes, go on Google and add autism after any health condition, illness, disease, ailment in the world known to man, and there will be a link to autism, because in the age of the internet everything and I mean EVERYTHING is "linked to autism", making autism the most dangerous neurological disorder known to man and because of all the risks that come with it it is rather miraculous that 99% of autistic people live way past 10 years old.

 

[Boogs]

We tend to find what we're looking for, and miss what we don't already perceive.
e.g. if this were a site for people with mental health illnesses (as opposed to conditions) such as schizophrenia we may well be seeing people with that condition as being more likely to suffer this or that or the other. Because that's what we are searching for.

When we we try to understand a statistic relative to one specific thing, we usually get an incomplete picture because reality is far more nuanced than that. But human minds tend to categorise things to aid cognition (we can only hold a small number of things in our mind at a time) and in being reductionist, the filtering is subjective and loses information by it's very definition. This leads to an incomplete view which the brain subconsciously and intuitively fill's in the gaps with it's biased existing knowledge.

It's impossible to see reality, so what we perceive depends on what we've filtered out from reality.

I think I've lost count of all the different things I've heard/read about that have been believed to trigger Alzheimer's, over the last 50-odd years, and they still can't say for sure, and I've no doubt new criteria will be suggested in the future. Science is less about what's right, more about discovering what's wrong and discounting it (falsifiability etc), but never any such thing as proof positive, only the concept that's it's not yet been disproven.

IMHO it's usually a mistake to believe something is true, and better to treat everything possible as questionable.
After all, the figures of authority we each like to rely on, can be just as fundamentally flawed as we are.

 

[Misty Avich]

Anxiety can get the better of you when you're not very knowledgeable about facts and find it hard to search online for reliable sources. So if someone comes on an autism forum and claims that autistic people are more likely than NTs to [insert horrific disadvantage here], I go into panic mode like "oh my God, I'm going to die!"

 

[Boogs]

For me, I've learnt to distrust almost everything (from a lifetime of experiencing how little sense much of what people say makes to me, and I'm unable to take much on faith) unless I've had the chance to learn what it is by my own agency and come to my own conclusion to my best ability. But since I can't operate in any other mode, I've not really had a conscious choice about it, it's the only way I can function and I find it hard to understand any other way of deciding on the nature of something new.
But that's why they call it a spectrum I guess.

 

[velociraptor]

Yeah i like weapons too, i think lots of males do, but i would fire one only in videogames.

I love bows and currently own seven of them. I have never fired an arrow at a living thing, however. Only archery targets under safe conditions.

 

[Rachie]

I have not been back in this thread in sometime. I though already had told Misty that I was very sorry for making a mistake with I thought they posted. For I was wrong but for months had taken it to be autistics are more likely to X. And we not need to go there again. I wonder if it was just me who assumed this as well. Misty never wrote that, in fact the opposite. May be with so many on the list and the way it was written and the real world and my poor eyesight perhaps it read as that to me. It is also a good question why is it more likely for the reasons that Misty gave, more likely to be abused etc.

Anyway, some lessons learnt enlarge check check and again perhaps.

I have seen a number of threads like almost what I was thinking. It went like this. An autistic in the media is found to be a suspect. Que a post on a forum asking why and making it known that the suspect is an autistic. The thread would go on for pages worths of posts, me not even reading a single post got this. What were loads of members discussing, would they all agree? As I said not a post I would like to read myself. The assumption is repungant to me if negative and something I would never wish to be associated with my condition.

I couldn't work out what was going on for people were taking it personally and it had totally nothing to do with them. If it did I wouldn't even have typed it.

Now we are all sober after Christmas those who celebrate it and i'm no drinker in my lifetime.

I have noticed there are a number of high functioning old classical aspergers in the media. I am not that myself. A good level 2 in some area. That is fine by me. My thinking may be this around health and yes I have read that health article I posted earlier and am referrering to this medical report. Perhaps those who have a good supply of cash is more unlikely to suffer ill consquences of some conditions and perhaps autism. For some seem to be in good health 60+ with aspergers and not a hair has been touched on their head. This is my view from reading that article.

 

[FilterFreq]

in a curious light rather than out of fear and loathing

But that doesn't get all the outrage clicks!

Unfortunately I think a lot of 'modern storytelling' and non-fiction narrative thrives on extremes rather than attempting to detail the often-mundane nature of life on the spectrum, or even off of it. Bad things absolutely do happen, and to everyone (I've said this phrase many times on here before, and it's not a matter of discrediting what others have been through, because it's absolutely worse for some than it is others), but it's more the traumas and brokenness that we bring into everyday life that tends to matter the most, or what we do with it all, and not so much the extremes and perils of the human condition.

Less outrage and more thoughtful processing is the gateway to healing, anyway. That's what I think.

 

[Misty Avich]

I've edited my post (#32).
I forgive the OP.