Automobiles: Mechanical related steering question

[Magna]

Question for anyone who may have some knowledge about the steering system on a vehicle. What is the likely issue based on the following?

Front wheels, mainly (or even exclusively but not sure) the right front wheel area makes a "wump, wump, wump" sound when making a turn. Also, could be related (or not), but going over bumps, hitting a small pothole, etc and the wheel makes kind of a "thunk" sound.

 

[MildredHubble]

Could be a worn bearing or a suspension link causing excessive travel making the wheel rub against the wheel arch. There's a small chance it could be mud build up on the wheel or the splash shield that protects the brake disc rubbing.

If the sound seems like it's coming from the wheel itself it could be these things, if it's not it could be low power steering fluid or a problem with the pump.

There's a whole host of other things that could cause what you described but I'd say they were the main ones.

A worn Constant Velocity joint could cause similar sounds particularly if the rubber boot has gotten twisted up and the joint is shifting backwards and forwards up the drive shaft.

Either way, I'd get it checked out as losing steering can be very dangerous.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

1. Tie rod
2. Upper or lower ball joint (depending upon your suspension).

 

[MildredHubble]

Oh and never overlook the possibility of loose wheel nuts.

 

[Nitro]

Worn inner CV joints make clunking noises when going straight.
Outer CV joints make clicking noises when making tight turns.
Worn wheel bearings make growling noises when the chassis places side loads on their pitted races.

The first place I would look would be the the tires then the lower ball joints.
They will generally make heavy noises when they are in desperate need of replacement.

Loose wheels make a clunking sound that gets more pronounced when side loaded.
At slow speeds they generally make creaking noises.


Most McPherson strut front ends have a pivot bearing at the top of the spring assembly.
Those will clatter on washboard road surfaces and sometimes pop when the suspension goes thru full travel.

Brake shields that pick up a small stone will make squealing noises.

Outer tie rod ends don't generally make a lot of noise unless they are subjected to washboard road surfaces.
Inner ones can make heavier sounds as the noise gets transmitted thru the chassis.


We had a mini Chevrolet Blazer in my shop one time that was making what appeared to be suspension noises on washboard roads.
Heavy clunking you could feel in the floorboards.
Lower ball joints were a problem on those and the customer's were iffy but not shot.
We went ahead and did them as a precaution, but during the test drive the clunk was still there.

I pulled a shock absorber from the driver's side.
Still noisy.
I isolated the anti-sway bar from the equation, no dice.
Went over the entire front suspension and came up with nothing.
Assured my customer that it was safe to take it on vacation, but also wanted it back when she returned.
She left.
Ten minutes later, I typed the issue into an international professional support group to see if any other techs could give me some pointers.
Five minutes later, a tech from France told me about a silent recall for a worn hood hinge bolt.
The hood would rattle up and down on the worn bolts and transmitted the noise to the floor by your feet.
I called the customer back up and asked her to bring it back down.

After installing a couple of plastic drain plug gaskets into the hinges, the problem was solved.

I don't often share this, but my racing habits were usually funded by doing repair work for others.
I have been actively wrenching for over 50 years now.

There were quite a few years that I actually specialized in chassis and suspension work and had a Hunter 4 wheel alignment machine.

One of my claims to fame was my ability to set up correct Ackerman effect on front ends.
Stretch limos would destroy their front tires about every 2,000 miles because the chassis mods were done without taking into consideration the effect on the front end.
The formula was actually very simple, and something that has to be spot on on a racecar, so I used my mech engineering skills combined with my fabrication skills to make the proper corrections.
I did the first stretch for free and told the owner to get back to me after 2.000 miles.
Guess what?
It quit shredding tires.
Lots of referrals for me to perform my "magic" on other limos was the end result.

There were several hundred stretch limos I fixed and countless numbers of older street rods with Mustang II front ends I corrected.

 

[MildredHubble]

There's also the possibility of loose plastic cowling you find in the wheel arches or under the engine. They can make some pretty impressive clattering noises and wumping noises. They can be damaged by curbs or speed humps (if you are too enthusiastic going over them) and tend not to cause a problem until you pick up speed and the air flow causes them to shift.

I've known one car with a badly worn rear bearing that would make a wumping noise at the rear when turning right and that was the sound of the tyre rubbing against the fuel filler hose.

 

[Jeff T]

As others say- CV joint if front wheel drive.
Is there a vibration in the car's front end?
Sometimes tires fail from tread separation. The internal belts can get dislodged.
Failing shock absorber or strut.
I'm not familiar with steering linkages (ball joints, steering gearbox or rack) to make such sounds- but I'm an amateur.
One last idea are failing bushings in a radius arm, or the control arm, A-arm. There are many different suspension designs, I don't know what you have.
BEST to have a professional look at it- ASAP.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Oh and never overlook the possibility of loose wheel nuts.

I have twice been in a vehicle (once as passenger and once as driver) where a wheel actually came off due to mechanics not tightening the lug nuts.
Both times the wheel stayed in the wheel well and acted like a door stop, suddenly jerking the vehicle to a very abrupt stop.
The first time was in my teens on an icy mountain road and put us into a spin beforethesudden stop. Fortunately I was not the driver that time. I probably wouldn't be writing this now.

 

[Nitro]

I have twice been in a vehicle (once as passenger and once as driver) where a wheel actually came off due to mechanics not tightening the lug nuts.
Both times the wheel stayed in the wheel well and acted like a door stop, suddenly jerking the vehicle to a very abrupt stop.
The first time was in my teens on an icy mountain road and put us into a spin beforethesudden stop. Fortunately I was not the driver that time. I probably wouldn't be writing this now.

I lost the front wheel on a VW Beetlebug one day, but it wasn't from loose lug bolts, it was from the spindle bearing retaining nut coming off.

The culprit was the guy that did the state required safety inspection the week before.

The little elves from the black forest decided in their infinite wisdom to drive the speedometer cable from the left front wheel that required the spindle to be hollow so the cable could extend thru the dust cap.
Because of that, the retaining nut that for eons had a castellated nut and a cross drilled hole in the spindle for a Cotter pin was retained with an Allen bolt that pinched it to the spindle threads.
The biggest problem with that was that the spindle thread was a right handed one on the left side of the vehicle which meant that if it ever loosened, it was going to come off.

Our commonwealth at the time had more potholes than proper road surfaces, so that was likely why it got jarred loose to begin with.

We lost a lot of wheels to damages from them back then.

I saw my wheel and tire assembly pass me on a turn and knew immediately not to press on the single master cylinder brakes because there would be none with the missing brake drum.

The fortunate part of an air-cooled V-Dub was the parking brake lever between the seats, something you got well acquainted with because brake failures were common on them here in what we call the rust belt.
There was room enough to get it off the road and I was able to find and gather the missing parts to reassemble it and get me back home.

Not bad for a 17 year old kid, huh?

 

[Forest Cat]

I saw my wheel and tire assembly pass me on a turn

You know you have a problem when you see your own wheel pass the car you are driving.


Have you seen this? Those loose wheels are not to be messed with.

Spoiler: Uh-oh

 

[MildredHubble]

I think the bottom line here is that if we were standing around you car, the collective experience of the respondents would probably help zero in on the problem in a minute or so. But because we can't all check our theories as to the cause of the problem the possibilities are increasing.

If you have the skill and knowledge to check these things out then do so, but one thing is for sure, the car definitely needs some attention from an expert.

When I worked in a car factory, you weren't even allowed to work on the line that produced suspension components until you had been trained on how vitally important the components were and the seriousness likely outcome of any component failing. These ranged from loss of steering to the potential destruction of the braking system. Rapid deceleration and the car flipping were some of the things we were warned could happen. This was mostly to impress upon us that overlooking something as simple as a captive nut could have serious consequences.

 

[Outdated]

You know you have a problem when you see your own wheel pass the car you are driving.

I've been in a car when that happened. It was my mate's father's car, a beat up old Holden HD panel van. We were going to the markets early in the morning to get fruit and vegetables for my mate's family supermarket, so luckily it was about 4:30 am and there were no other cars on the road.

It was the front left hand wheel, but because there was no other traffic my mate was able to let the car drift gently to a halt instead of hitting the brakes and smashing the wheel hub assembly in to the bitumen. The wheel nuts had come off. We stole one nut off of each of the other wheels to put it back on and carried on in to town to do what we were supposed to be doing.

 

[MildredHubble]

You know you have a problem when you see your own wheel pass the car you are driving.


Have you seen this? Those loose wheels are not to be messed with.

Spoiler: Uh-oh

Yikes! I missed your post on the first read through somehow. That was frightening!

I actually said to the guy with the car that was grinding a hole through his fuel hose that he needed to get it fixed before he saw his wheel over taking him on the motorway! Before I looked at it he thought the parking brake was seized. I'd warned him that it could boil the brake fluid and was expecting to see a cooked brake disc.

 

[Magna]

Thanks everyone. I'll post the results after we take it in for troubleshooting/repairs.

 

[Magna]

Hello everyone. I promised an update on the issues with our vehicle. I took it to a local mechanic who is trusted by many in our neighborhood. The issue is twofold: A bad wheel bearing on the side that seemed like it was making the noise most often when turning. He's replaced that bearing ($325 which I'm guessing would easily have cost double at the dealership for comparison). The other issue with the clunk sound going over bumps while driving straight ahead are the struts. He had to order those so they're going to be replaced the beginning of next month. That will be $950. Fingers crossed that after they're replaced, all will be as it should be.

Thanks again for your collective input.

 

[MildredHubble]

I'm glad that you've had it diagnosed now. Hopefully you won't have to worry about the suspension and steering for a good long while!

 

[Shevek]

One of my claims to fame was my ability to set up correct Ackerman effect on front ends.

The formula was actually very simple, and something that has to be spot on on a racecar,

The Lotus 30 was built with the opposite of Ackerman geometry. Colin's thinking was that with more weight on the outer tire in a turn, it could generate a higher slip angle.
A lot of people in human powered racing are very fussy about their Ackerman, oblivious to the much greater slip generated by toe-in. A four-bar linkage only gives a good approximation of the correct angles anyway. L'Oblissante, an 18th century steam carriage was designed for extremely tight turns, imitating the fully turning axles on horse carriages. It used a chain linkage on elliptical sprockets to get it just right.