Back for a while - Maybe

[Rasputin]

For my parents who are fortunately still alive, it is still expected to me that they will die before I do. I have been preprocessing their passing essentially my whole life. I don't anticipate it being a huge emotional hit for me even if it happened suddenly tomorrow. It would suck, sure. But, not unexpected nor unprocessed already.

As for people that commit suicide, I kind of figure they made their own choice. So, I don't usually feel bad when they do so. Everyone's always spouting the "my body, my choice" thing, but we seem to not apply that to people that want to die. But anyways, I wouldn't feel a strong emotional response to that situation either. I've only known one person that actually did kill themselves (jumped out the window several floors up).

I also find funerals terribly awkward. I try to avoid them if I can, but unfortunately that's not always plausible.

Preprocessing of emotions is plausible. You are actually the second person I have met online who has suggested that I do this.

 

[Thinx]

I've been thinking about this since you said it.. I agree it's not normal, but I'm not sure I think it's unhealthy.
It would certainly be a unhealthy for an NT I suppose, so I could see a lot of people suggesting it is unhealthy.

For me, I find I just process the emotions so slowly over time that they don't impact me in the large way that they do for most people. For example, we had a pet rabbit that died last December. His bowels had been growling away for over a year by that point, and he was old. It was obvious his time was coming. By the time he actually died, I had pretty much already processed any emotions related to his death. I feel I do a lot of "preprocessing" of emotions for expected losses, and that minimizes any emotional response when the event actually occurs. I will still do "post processing" as well, but it happens over the course of months or years. So, there's not usually any point where I fall apart emotionally the way a lot of people seem to.

I guess the question being, are you not processing the emotions at all? Or just processing them so slowly that they don't impact any day-to-day stuff. I'm more the latter, and since it does eventually get processed, I don't feel it's an unhealthy way to be.. Just different.

Interesting points. Ok, I am also thinking, in relation to the point @Rasputin made about some people with autism saying there are those with logical thinking and those with emotional responses.

Just thinking about gender and gender conditioning, as,

1) I guess in a neurology that's mostly been previously thought of as a male thing, it may not be suprising to hear the idea that lack of emotional expression is said to be part of the condition, because males tend to be socialised not to express emotion, whilst for women it's regarded as ok and normal, even encouraged, and

2) I wondered if the issue about loss here is also partly about empathy, again something that can be suggested to be more developed in female socialisation, where it could be hard for you to get the part of the grieving process where you serve a function for others by empathising/sharing in their grief? Especially if you have preprocessed and the funeral seems surplus to your requirements.

Still thinking about this but I have to get up and out of the house!

Not sure if the quotes showing correctly, I quoted both @Rasputin and @Varzar

 

[Rasputin]

Interesting points. Ok, I am also thinking, in relation to the point @Rasputin made about some people with autism saying there are those with logical thinking and those with emotional responses.

Just thinking about gender and gender conditioning, as,

1) I guess in a neurology that's mostly been previously thought of as a male thing, it may not be suprising to hear the idea that lack of emotional expression is said to be part of the condition, because males tend to be socialised not to express emotion, whilst for women it's regarded as ok and normal, even encouraged, and

2) I wondered if the issue about loss here is also partly about empathy, again something that can be suggested to be more developed in female socialisation, where it could be hard for you to get the part of the grieving process where you serve a function for others by empathising/sharing in their grief? Especially if you have preprocessed and the funeral seems surplus to your requirements.

Still thinking about this but I have to get up and out of the house!

Not sure if the quotes showing correctly, I quoted both @Rasputin and @Varzar

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and any conclusions. The one question I have about pre-processing of emotions is that it implies there is some early anticipatory emotional reaction. I do not do that. For me the loss must be related to someone important to me, and the event must be sudden and not expected.

Not surprising is the fact that I used to identify with the fictional Spock character, more than any real person.

 

[Varzar]

Interesting points. Ok, I am also thinking, in relation to the point @Rasputin made about some people with autism saying there are those with logical thinking and those with emotional responses.

Just thinking about gender and gender conditioning, as,

1) I guess in a neurology that's mostly been previously thought of as a male thing, it may not be suprising to hear the idea that lack of emotional expression is said to be part of the condition, because males tend to be socialised not to express emotion, whilst for women it's regarded as ok and normal, even encouraged, and

2) I wondered if the issue about loss here is also partly about empathy, again something that can be suggested to be more developed in female socialisation, where it could be hard for you to get the part of the grieving process where you serve a function for others by empathising/sharing in their grief? Especially if you have preprocessed and the funeral seems surplus to your requirements.

Still thinking about this but I have to get up and out of the house!

Not sure if the quotes showing correctly, I quoted both @Rasputin and @Varzar

Given the diversity of emotional responses people (both male and female) seem to exhibit on these forums, I had actually been associating this aspect of myself (and Rasp) as being part of Alexithymia more than AS itself. Otherwise, I'd think it should be more prevalent in the community than it seems to be.

I would certainly like to hear more of your thoughts though. I am a bit fascinated by the male/female differences in AS, and how they present. I am curious who else in my family might be AS. I suspect it came from my mom's side. And perhaps she is AS too.. But she is very different from me. It's hard to identify the traits that identify AS in women for me.. And yet, it was obvious to me that Elon Musk was on the spectrum even though I've never even met him.

 

[Varzar]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and any conclusions. The one question I have about pre-processing of emotions is that it implies there is some early anticipatory emotional reaction. I do not do that. For me the loss must be related to someone important to me, and the event must be sudden and not expected.

Not surprising is the fact that I used to identify with the fictional Spock character, more than any real person.

I guess emotional reaction might be overstating it. To use the pet rabbit example, for a good couple years before he died I would occasionally think about the fact that he was probably going to die soon. I would imagine what we'd do with his body after he died. I'd imagine what it would be like to come home and find him dead, or wake up and find him dead. I'd imagine the space his area consumed at the end of our bed being repurposed for other things, like furniture. I'd imagine how my wife would react to his death. And, I guess I'd imagine the sadness as well. However, that sadness always seemed more imaginative than real since at that point, he was still very much alive.
Often, these imagination sessions would just result in me going over to give him some petting, to appreciate the fact he was still there with us.
So as far as "feelings" go, it's not like I would think about him dying at some point in the future and then get all sad/gloomy. The preprocessing I'm talking about is more just that process of thinking about the inevitability of the future and planning it through.

Does that sound like something you do as well?

Also, I've been referred to by others as "spock-like" on several occasions. The first person to suggest I was AS also referred to me that way moments before making the suggestion.

 

[Thinx]

Hi again. So, what I meant earlier, point 1), was about @Rasputin's point that some people on another site were saying there were 2 kinds of Aspergers, I think, and one was logical thinking based, whereas the other was more emotional. I wondered if it had to do with gender socialisation, partly.

Then, point 2) was where I wondered about the issue of empathy, or lack of, that could be seen as something women are more trained in , than men, that was because neither of you mentioned much about how you might help others who were grieving for the lost person or animal, though now @Varzar mentioned thinking about what his wife's reaction to their pet dying might be, and @Rasputin mentioned going to a funeral dutifully with his wife.

Yes, could be that this is just more about Alexithymia than about autism. Which as I understand it is not necessarily seen as a disorder/ unhealthy, but as a personality trait that may however present some challenges in relationships.

The preprocessing discussion is interesting, but didn't seem to be so much about emotions as about preparation through thinking about what may happen. I don't see why that shouldn't lessen grief though, especially because it prepares people and the loss is expected and planned for.

I'm often surprised when I see deaths reported to be unexpected in people over 90, for example. Not that I expect everyone over 90 to die, but just that most people don't get to 90, so one might prepare oneself for the idea that someone 90 plus would maybe die. My mums 96, and although I don't expect she'll die any time very soon, I also would think that she might. Or she might live to 128. Wow if so.

 

[Rasputin]

I guess emotional reaction might be overstating it. To use the pet rabbit example, for a good couple years before he died I would occasionally think about the fact that he was probably going to die soon. I would imagine what we'd do with his body after he died. I'd imagine what it would be like to come home and find him dead, or wake up and find him dead. I'd imagine the space his area consumed at the end of our bed being repurposed for other things, like furniture. I'd imagine how my wife would react to his death. And, I guess I'd imagine the sadness as well. However, that sadness always seemed more imaginative than real since at that point, he was still very much alive.
Often, these imagination sessions would just result in me going over to give him some petting, to appreciate the fact he was still there with us.
So as far as "feelings" go, it's not like I would think about him dying at some point in the future and then get all sad/gloomy. The preprocessing I'm talking about is more just that process of thinking about the inevitability of the future and planning it through.

Does that sound like something you do as well?

Also, I've been referred to by others as "spock-like" on several occasions. The first person to suggest I was AS also referred to me that way moments before making the suggestion.

I think we are very much alike. I have been told that I am unfeeling and lack empathy, which I do not believe is true. These are just perceptions of people who are more neurotypical.

 

[Varzar]

For point 1), from my observations on here, there are a lot of males that are also one side or the other. either very logical or very emotional. So, I'm not sure it's gender based. At least not any more than there is a bit of segregation there in the entire population of people. Women in general seem more in touch with their emotions. If anything, I think I see more emotional men on here than in the general population, possibly due to AS people not feeling the need to conform to social norms, or perhaps just cause the internet makes things anonymous and it's easier to share emotions then...

For point 2), I can definitely see how others feel in certain situations. And I dislike it greatly when someone I care about is unhappy for any reason. So, I guess I have some kind of empathy going on.

For preprocessing, and not lessening grief.. For me at least it's that all the preprocessing is such that by the time the loss actually occurs it's like it already happened a long time ago.

And now I'm going to use an amusing analogy...
It's like castrating a bull... You could do it all at once with a knife, and I'm sure it would hurt like hell.. But typically they do what is called banding, where the balls are tied to cut off circulation, and in 10-50 days they just fall off. I gather it still is not entirely without discomfort, but it's not to the same intensity level as a knife would be.

Heh, I enjoy analogies, but I never expected I'd find myself comparing emotions to castrating a bull.

 

[Rasputin]

Hi again. So, what I meant earlier, point 1), was about @Rasputin's point that some people on another site were saying there were 2 kinds of Aspergers, I think, and one was logical thinking based, whereas the other was more emotional. I wondered if it had to do with gender socialisation, partly.

Then, point 2) was where I wondered about the issue of empathy, or lack of, that could be seen as something women are more trained in , than men, that was because neither of you mentioned much about how you might help others who were grieving for the lost person or animal, though now @Varzar mentioned thinking about what his wife's reaction to their pet dying might be, and @Rasputin mentioned going to a funeral dutifully with his wife.

Yes, could be that this is just more about Alexithymia than about autism. Which as I understand it is not necessarily seen as a disorder/ unhealthy, but as a personality trait that may however present some challenges in relationships.

The preprocessing discussion is interesting, but didn't seem to be so much about emotions as about preparation through thinking about what may happen. I don't see why that shouldn't lessen grief though, especially because it prepares people and the loss is expected and planned for.

I'm often surprised when I see deaths reported to be unexpected in people over 90, for example. Not that I expect everyone over 90 to die, but just that most people don't get to 90, so one might prepare oneself for the idea that someone 90 plus would maybe die. My mums 96, and although I don't expect she'll die any time very soon, I also would think that she might. Or she might live to 128. Wow if so.

Point (1) regarding logical vs emotional orientation applies to both men and women. I don’t necessarily see women as more emotional than men, though they may be more emotionally mature. Interestingly, I enjoy interacting with women more so than men. I can also generally tell if a female is on the spectrum, because anyone I make a mental connection with tends to be on the spectrum. My half brother appears to be autistic, but he is very outwardly empathetic and caring of others. I am much more reserved and analytical.

I have read that most people on the spectrum also have Alexithymia, and I have taken tests that conclude a I have Alexithymia. It has also been suggested to me that it is something I used to cope with emotional trauma as a small child. I think there may be some truth in that. Varzar may also have Alexithymia, but I do not know if he dealt with trauma as I did.

I don’t consciously think whether someone is near time for their passing. If someone is very old when they pass I am more apt to think about what a full life someone lived. I hope we all live long, fulfilling lives.

 

[Varzar]

Point (1) regarding logical vs emotional orientation applies to both men and women. I don’t necessarily see women as more emotional than men, though they may be more emotionally mature.

I exactly agree with all of that, and like how you said it.

Interestingly, I enjoy interacting with women more so than men. I can also generally tell if a female is on the spectrum, because anyone I make a mental connection with tends to be on the spectrum. My half brother appears to be autistic, but he is very outwardly empathetic and caring of others. I am much more reserved and analytical.

I also enjoy interacting with women moreso than men. But I can't tell if a woman is on the spectrum or not.
I just find women more open and willing to talk about how they feel, which makes me feel like I can know them better. Whereas I usually find men more difficult to read how they are feeling and they regularly do not wish to discuss it, which makes me more anxious about how I interact with them.

I have read that most people on the spectrum also have Alexithymia, and I have taken tests that conclude a I have Alexithymia. It has also been suggested to me that it is something I used to cope with emotional trauma as a small child. I think there may be some truth in that. Varzar may also have Alexithymia, but I do not know if he dealt with trauma as I did.

Emotional trauma as a kid would have come from persistent bullying for me. I was very angry for a very long time. My wife really helped me get through that. She showed me there are actually some good people in the world, which up until I met her I was highly skeptical of.

I don’t consciously think whether someone is near time for their passing. If someone is very old when they pass I am more apt to think about what a full life someone lived. I hope we all live long, fulfilling lives.

Interesting, that seems to be a bit different as I do consciously think about these things.
But, I do also tend to think more of the positive memories when confronted with a loss instead of focusing on the loss itself.
Going back to the pet bunny example. When I did think of his end coming, and went over to pet him.. Part of that was ensuring that when he did eventually die, I would not feel like I had missed out on spending quality time with him.
Thinking of and planning for loss allows me to ensure I can take actions in the present that prevent feelings of regret later.