Big Bang Theory's Penny.

[ksheehan88]

I don't know how many of you are familiar with The Big Bang Theory TV show, but I really dislike Penny.

She's manipulative and actively puts down Leonard's interests, makes snide remarks to him and makes him change himself for her, instead of loving him how he is. People watch this and think its cute and romantic and sweet, but its not!

Every time I see her make a snide remark or slight or demand it really irritates me and I think to myself if Penny was the guy, people would be outraged at her treatment of her significant other but because she's a conventionally good looking woman, dating someone who is "geeky" and "nerdy", its ok.

 

[Thinx]

Yes think it's meant to be funny though. It has got formulaic and they all seem sick of it. Maybe the problem is the main character is reputedly portraying autistic behaviour and the supporting characters stagnated? Penny seems to have developed into a caricature of the nagging girlfriend stereotype but early on and for a long time she was pilloried as a Dumb blond outrageously and midway she was shown as quite sensitive and empathic.

 

[mw2530]

I'm torn on my feelings about this show. On one hand, I do find it funny. On the other hand, Sheldon gets made fun of a lot for his behavior and personality. Also, his behavior and personality are exaggerated. I guess exaggeration is part of most shows and that's what makes this show funny.

 

[Bolletje]

I couldn’t watch the show because it just made me angry, she was a big reason for that.

 

[Mia]

Don't know if you've seen all the episodes, right to the most current. But the characters have evolved a lot. Penny was the dumb blonde that they all made fun of initially. Then she began to be more understanding in later episodes, and began to learn more.

But that might be the writing itself, to make her look superficial and dumb (she had mentioned in an interview how much she dislikes being typecast inthat way). When Bernadette and Amy began to be involved, things changed from stereotypical to the females becoming less constricted by their roles. They were able to become less typecast as females, and they fought to have better writing for their characters. Amy's first appearances seemed as if she was some sort of wooden robot in the earlier episodes.

But you're right, Penny does put down and make fun of Leonard's interests, and so does a later girlfriend Priya, the only one of Leonard's girlfriend's who didn't was Leslie Winkle. It's all connected to Leonard's mother, who raised him and ridiculed him from childhood. They do make mention of the fact at one point, that Leonard becomes involved with women who are like his mother.

 

[tree]

I watched TBBT for awhile.
Then the bones began to show through, too clearly.

It wasn't fun any more, once I could see how
obvious the scripts/gags were, how the writers
thought.

 

[Judge]

The one thing I try not to lose sight of is the mentality of the producers. Both Chuck Lorre and Bill Prady have always played "coy" with much of anyone questioning the show's characters relative to autism and comorbidity and the "neurological divide" itself. In essence they continually dance around the issue altogether by design so that they can "freelance" the show exclusively for the purpose of comedy, whether characters conform to social and neurological realities or not.

Interesting too that Mayim Bialik who plays Amy Fowler has a doctorate in neuroscience. Who occasionally has emphasized that in her opinion Sheldon Cooper's most prominent issues remain in the realm of his OCD and little else. Though in retrospect I can't help but wonder if she's "running interference" for the producers and writers. I can only say that as someone who has OCD, I would never choose to write about it in a humorous manner, as I find nothing at all funny about it on a 24/7 basis.

 

[Mia]

Suspect that the premise for the show, is to make people with autism more acceptable and 'cute' in the public eye.

 

[Judge]

Suspect that one of the premises for the show, is to make people with autism more acceptable and 'cute' in the public eye.

Could well be.

However such a mentality may also not easily be able to draw a line between what is comedy, and what may just constitute a form of Schadenfreude. But then if it draws sufficient ratings, those at the top who are accountable for such distinctions probably wouldn't care either.

Makes you wonder what Dostoevsky would have said about television.

 

[tree]

Suspect that the premise for the show, is to make people with autism more acceptable and 'cute' in the public eye.

To me it looked like the standard comedy or even soap opera set-up:

*Oh look, even they have troublesome situations.*


"They" being, depending on which genre it is:
highly intelligent
highly educated
physically attractive
wealthy(this is major in soaps)
professionals
etc

Viewer then can laugh or feel superior to characters.

 

[Judge]

Most of us don't make those university salaries as gainfully employed scientific scholars. Perhaps a more positive stereotype, but like so many stereotypes, one that isn't so true in the big picture.

 

[LogicalMind]

KSheehan...thats so sweet of you... I hate Penny too lol

 

[Mia]

and what may just constitute a form of Schadenfreude.

When I think of the early comics like the Marx brothers, Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy, Fatty Arbuckle, Buster Keaton, most found humor in hurting others, hitting someone over the head, or falling down or pointedly insulting someone. Usually there was a scapegoat of some sort within physical comedy. That premise seems to have continued on.

 

[Judge]

When I think of the early comics like the Marx brothers, Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy, Fatty Arbuckle, Buster Keaton, most found humor in hurting others, hitting someone over the head, or falling down or pointedly insulting someone. Usually there was a scapegoat of some sort within physical comedy. That premise seems to have continued on.

Yep, thought of the Three Stooges when I posted that.

Exact same premise. But a dated one at that, IMO.

I tend to take it personally though when OCD is portrayed as something humorous. The reality of living with it isn't so funny. Though much like autism, it's difficult to explain to those who don't have it.

 

[Lichi]

To me Penny is very realistic. A lot of the guys I know who have girlfriends have the traits that Penny does. You see Bernadette and eventually Amy also start becoming like that in regards of their respective partners as the time goes by.

I agree that if a man was to be like that there would be an outrage. I recently discovered that society accept the manipulation of men to a ridiculous extent, which I personally found to be very degrading. I am talking in terms of articles that read “how to get him back” “how to make him stay” “how to make him read your mind” etc. These articles have been published for as long as I have been able to read and no one has batted an eye. It gives me the impression that men don’t know what they want, and if they made a decision to leave it’s wrong and women should know how to correct them.

About Sheldon, this character has changed a lot. Before I found out I’m an Aspie a lot of people would point out how I’m like Sheldon, the earlier seasons.

 

[Judge]

I used to watch the very first few seasons and tired of the show. I've watched a few episodes recently and find that it's as if the writers have retreated somewhat from some of the characters' more autistic inclinations.

It doesn't surprise me though. For any show that runs this long, they have to eventually take things in a new direction. With most of the characters now paired up, it stands to reason to see them taking up more conventional roles along the lines of gender than neurology.

I suppose the inevitable series finale will involve Raj finally getting married.

 

[Mia]

To me Penny is very realistic. A lot of the guys I know who have girlfriends have the traits that Penny does. You see Bernadette and eventually Amy also start becoming like that in regards of their respective partners as the time goes by.

I don't see her as realistic, she seems stuck in a character stereotype. Continually typecast, like many formulaic and popular television shows. Some young women are like that early on, yet they change and evolve over time.

They don't stay stuck in real life in that role for all that long. The writing is too one-sided, written from the point of view of someone who has little concept of lives and evolution of females. I see Bernadette and Amy showing some character development but also attempting to somewhat control their relationships.

I am talking in terms of articles that read “how to get him back” “how to make him stay” “how to make him read your mind” etc. These articles have been published for as long as I have been able to read and no one has batted an eye.

They have, and they stem from a time when females had nothing more to expect than becoming a housewife and raising children. Their only real power was keeping the status quo through some sort of awareness and even some manipulation.
At the same time as these articles were published, there were instructions in popular media for men. 'How to pick up women,' 'How to get women to have sex with you.' These articles have been around since the forties, usually in men's magazines.

 

[Lichi]

They have, and they stem from a time when females had nothing more to expect than becoming a housewife and raising children. Their only real power was keeping the status quo through some sort of awareness and even some manipulation.
At the same time as these articles were published, there were instructions in popular media for men. 'How to pick up women,' 'How to get women to have sex with you.' These articles have been around since the forties, usually in men's magazines.

I haven’t gotten around to read that many men’s magazines. I would imagine there aren’t that many of those articles around. On the counter side I do see more and more articles one how to control men. It’s as if objectifying a general is only wrong if it’s towards women. I reacted as strongly as I did after coming across this man Mathew Hussey and his article on “how to get him addicted to you”. The article was all about how to plant ideas and manipulate men in to thinking they need you. I went through a lot more of his content and came across sentences ending in “he doesn’t know what he wants”, “it’s just a phase”. I couldn’t help but compare that to the female day equivalent of a man blaming a woman’s mood/decision/desire on her period.

Maybe I don’t notice articles’s like the ones you mentioned for men because I’m not a man, or maybe they aren’t around anymore.

 

[Mia]

Maybe I don’t notice articles like the ones you mentioned for men because I’m not a man, or maybe they aren’t around anymore.

There are hundreds of these articles, books, magazines.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2013/sep/18/how-to-pick-up-women-with-science
http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-pick-women-your-day-day-life
https://www.menprovement.com/picking-up-girls/
https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a19540518/12-random-ways-to-turn-her-on/
13 Simple Steps To Make Her Subconsciously Want You – Men's Lifestyle Network
There's even a wiki on it: https://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-Women
And there's another for women: https://www.wikihow.com/Pick-Up-Men
https://www.elle.com/life-love/sex-relationships/news/a15346/tips-from-female-pickup-artist/
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/g1835/pick-up-lines-for-girls/

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Maybe I don’t notice articles’s like the ones you mentioned for men because I’m not a man, or maybe they aren’t around anymore.

They are everywhere. It was quite obscure stuff before the 2000s, but now every guy and his dog knows about game. It's pretty much mainstream now.

But you are correct that the current narrative, especially in anglophone western countries, is pretty much "All men are rapists" and "All women are sanctity itself". The internet is pretty much tired of it already, however mainstream TV is mostly watched by women so it's no wonder they still appeal to women with such a narrative.

I disagree with the notion that there's some sort of "manipulation" going on. Well there is, but it's mostly folks like Hussey doing the manipulation. No matter how you put it, you can't fake value (Well... maybe a bit with makeup ).

In short, it's just about money.