Biopsychology Final Project

[Alexej]

I have come to this forum to discuss some of my findings as part of my research project.

I am trying to focus in on the findings that you are presenting Camryn and these are the conclusions that I see in your post.

I have seen the evidence of the social and emotional challenges that are faced each day by people with an ASD, there is bountiful evidence of the benefits of having one of these conditions on the autism spectrum.

A very general statement IMHO. CAn you please be more specific?

I have discovered that there is a high number of genes related to intelligence in the human genome that are also pleotrobpically associated with ASDs, which is highly likely the main reason that it is still something that individuals can have today.

Interesting conclusion.

... so I know that ASDs must have advantages for individuals who have them. The genotypic findings are likely the explanations behind the persistence of ASD.

I don't understand the phrase "genotypic findings" in this context. What do you mean



However, I may just be acting in a very Aspie way in my response to this question, being detailed and precise in my seeking to understand what you are saying!

 

[VAW]

Hello!
My name is Camryn! I am a university student and I have been working on a biopsychology project for the past three months. My project has been centered around Autism and other related autism spectrum disorders (ASD). As the last piece of my assignment, I am to take steps to help aid the problem that I have noticed in society, which is the stigmatization of ASDs.
I am a very scientific person, and I wanted to ask the question, "Why, if so many people stigmatize ASDs, does it even still exist in the human genome?" One of the most fundamental and integral laws of nature is the survival of the fittest, and those genes that are passed on to future generations. I have been doing lots of research over the past few months to uncover the biological strength of having an ASD, and while in my readings of peer-reviewed articles, scientific journals, and personal testimonies, I have seen the evidence of the social and emotional challenges that are faced each day by people with an ASD, there is bountiful evidence of the benefits of having one of these conditions on the autism spectrum. I have discovered that there is a high number of genes related to intelligence in the human genome that are also pleotrobpically associated with ASDs, which is highly likely the main reason that it is still something that individuals can have today.
I have come to this forum to discuss some of my findings as part of my research project. I want to actively change the stigmas surrounding ASDs by first changing the language used around these conditions. People still have ASDs for a reason- nature and biology do not make mistakes, and so I know that ASDs must have advantages for individuals who have them. The genotypic findings are likely the explanations behind the persistence of ASD. My personal opinion on the stigmatization surrounding ASDs is that it is a problem of society, not a problem that people with ASD have themselves. The disadvantages that individuals living with ASDs face, particularly the social challenges, are almost exclusively a result of neurotypical people not coming from a place of understanding of the conditions. Society places such a high emphasis on social and emotional interactions, and perhaps if this were not the case, if the entire structure of society did not rely so heavily on complicated social interactions, then people with ASD would not be stigmatized at all, and their unique, special talents and special interests could be appreciated for the powerful traits that they are. People with ASDs are highly sought-after by employers particularly for the attention to detail in complicated systems, like computer software for example. I am here to seek feedback and input on my research!
I do not personally have an ASD, but I am trying, as a neurotypical person, be as informed as I can be. I want to actively break down stereotypes surrounding people with ASDs and to help neurotypical people understand the conditions better so that they can make the world a more comfortable and accommodating place for non-neurotypical people. My goal is to obtain as much feedback as possible, and write a report of what all you wonderful readers have to say about my post. I want to help people with ASDs feel more comfortable in the sometimes unaccommodating world, and I want to help neurotypical people see the wonderful power in ASDs, and to inform everyone that ASD is here to stay- because science does not make mistakes and it IS biologically beneficial for the human genome.
Thank YOU!

First of all I think it is wonderful for you to want to do something like this.
I myself am an NT, but my son is an Aspie.
One thing I have learned from my husband who was an educated man and an Instructor was before you jump into the most difficult of solutions, you should go to the simplest of answers. Why take something totally apart and try to fix it when you haven't even checked if it was plugged in and that is why it isn't working. <(example)

I agree with you that a lot of NT's, do not understand Aspies but if you never had to deal with one, I don't think it will hit home as much or to NT's it is just easier to not deal with them and look at it as though they are just a little different. You don't need to know biological differences in their brain, it is easier to just say they are different period.

I do agree that if there were good information out there at least the people could understand what Aspie's go through. However unless you have a reason to look at it, you probably won't.

If you love going to parties, but Aspie's don't feel comfortable going to parties because they find it difficult to talk with people, don't like idle chit chat and so they sit in a corner, you are probably not going to go there, for the NT who loves that stuff probably won't find anything in common with you and the both of you probably won't be close friends. Because you like different things that you will never come together on. IT isn't always the social part the NT's don't get when it comes to Aspies but just one don't like doing those things. Like fishing, if I don't like fishing but you do, we probably won't hang out together if that is what you want to do.

When my son had to go through tests to see if he qualified for disability, at that time it was a physical disease but he also had a mental problem too, we just didn't know it was Asperger's at that time. The person who interviewed that part said he had high anxieties and to her belief he could work but needed a repetitive job. Looks good on paper but he was far too intelligent for that kind of work, he would have been too bored with a job like that. but when a professional says that, they take it as law. They may be the ones who needs better education on the subject.

In the case of my son, he has U.C. which is one of the worst cases these doctors have seen especially for a guy who was only 20 at the time... the worst being cancer. Being an Aspie he didn't talk much, he finds chit chat annoying and totally irrelevant to anything. He mostly internalized his anxieties which the professionals felt caused stomach problems. When he has high anxieties he also has migraines, which are the E.R. kind, and his U.C. gets worst and he bleeds more. Keeping him calmer helps his U.C. stay more controlled. Getting a job would cause severe anxiety which would kick his U.C. into an uncontrolled situation which sometimes is a hospital stay.

He also is low key, if he was working and his boss or anyone wanted to talk about ASD, he wouldn't like that or being treated differently because of it or people knowing his situation. His intent would be to be as an NT, not be treated like he was an Aspie. I know they have to mask when in public but I think that is what he would prefer than to be treated differently.

Everyone is so different, like my friend on here, she has done so much in her life I am amazed! Each level is different for everyone and there-for even categorizing them all in the Autism field to me is a big injustice.

I think it would be wonderful if there was more understanding for the Aspie's within the NT society however I do feel at least in my son's case that trying to understand Aspies on his level would put my son in a spot light he doesn't want to be in. He would more prefer to blend in even if it was masking to fit the norm instead of being categorized and accepted for his disability.
I don't know how other people would feel I just know how my son feels on that.

 

[Greatshield17]

Hello!
My name is Camryn! I am a university student and I have been working on a biopsychology project for the past three months. My project has been centered around Autism and other related autism spectrum disorders (ASD). As the last piece of my assignment, I am to take steps to help aid the problem that I have noticed in society, which is the stigmatization of ASDs.
I am a very scientific person, and I wanted to ask the question, "Why, if so many people stigmatize ASDs, does it even still exist in the human genome?" One of the most fundamental and integral laws of nature is the survival of the fittest, and those genes that are passed on to future generations. I have been doing lots of research over the past few months to uncover the biological strength of having an ASD, and while in my readings of peer-reviewed articles, scientific journals, and personal testimonies, I have seen the evidence of the social and emotional challenges that are faced each day by people with an ASD, there is bountiful evidence of the benefits of having one of these conditions on the autism spectrum. I have discovered that there is a high number of genes related to intelligence in the human genome that are also pleotrobpically associated with ASDs, which is highly likely the main reason that it is still something that individuals can have today.
I have come to this forum to discuss some of my findings as part of my research project. I want to actively change the stigmas surrounding ASDs by first changing the language used around these conditions. People still have ASDs for a reason- nature and biology do not make mistakes, and so I know that ASDs must have advantages for individuals who have them. The genotypic findings are likely the explanations behind the persistence of ASD. My personal opinion on the stigmatization surrounding ASDs is that it is a problem of society, not a problem that people with ASD have themselves. The disadvantages that individuals living with ASDs face, particularly the social challenges, are almost exclusively a result of neurotypical people not coming from a place of understanding of the conditions. Society places such a high emphasis on social and emotional interactions, and perhaps if this were not the case, if the entire structure of society did not rely so heavily on complicated social interactions, then people with ASD would not be stigmatized at all, and their unique, special talents and special interests could be appreciated for the powerful traits that they are. People with ASDs are highly sought-after by employers particularly for the attention to detail in complicated systems, like computer software for example. I am here to seek feedback and input on my research!
I do not personally have an ASD, but I am trying, as a neurotypical person, be as informed as I can be. I want to actively break down stereotypes surrounding people with ASDs and to help neurotypical people understand the conditions better so that they can make the world a more comfortable and accommodating place for non-neurotypical people. My goal is to obtain as much feedback as possible, and write a report of what all you wonderful readers have to say about my post. I want to help people with ASDs feel more comfortable in the sometimes unaccommodating world, and I want to help neurotypical people see the wonderful power in ASDs, and to inform everyone that ASD is here to stay- because science does not make mistakes and it IS biologically beneficial for the human genome.
Thank YOU!

This might be controversial, but I think one thing people should consider to help both ASD people and NT people, is reforming the modern education system. I've heard a lot of people talk about flaws with the current education system, which are causing problems for both ASD and NT students alike; I can't recall all of them, but I think the biggest flaw is that it's too collectivistic, it's too focused on bringing the class as a whole through all the grades and lessons, without focusing on the individual student and cultivating his or her unique talents and skills.

In the olden days, it used to be the case that the education systems would separate the students with scholarly talents, from the students trade-talents, and help each group of students develop their skills separately. Today, everyone is expected to go to college and university and get their scholarly degree, regardless of what their talents (or needs) are. This mindset stemmed from an enlightenment idea that, in an ironic sense, (not necessarily a literal sense) expected everyone to be as smart or smarter than a person with ASD; but in reality, not everyone is called to be a brilliant scholar, different people have different skills. So, not to sound catchy or slogany or anything, we need an education system that's not necessarily neural diverse, but rather an education system that's humanly diverse.

 

[Siam333]

I totally agree with the intelligence/intellect part. People with ASD have created many wonderful things for us. People like Nikola Tesla are thought to be on the spectrum. That may be why people don't seek to weed it out.

 

[Au Naturel]

Nothing suddenly started happening to Millenials. There is no autism epidemic.

Now, if you generate a small geographic area where people who are too high on the spectrum to be easily diagnosed tend to accumulate, you will produce more children who are diagnosable. That is exactly what happened in Silicon Valley.

What happened is our creation of a spectrum to represent the condition. When I was a child I wasn't considered autistic, I was a nerd and a geek and the one who got picked on and the clumsy kid nobody wanted on their team. I saw more school therapists and counselors than I have fingers. Not one of them saw it as a developmental condition and not simply bad choices. That was the probable experience of every high functioning autistic child in the world. It didn't even exist as a diagnosis. If you were what we'd call ASD level 2 or 3, you then you might get an autism diagnosis and be schlepped off to "special ed." You know, the kids who rode the "small" bus.

Or you might not. Schizophrenia, psychosis, or the blanket term of mental retardation when they couldn't figure what was wrong were more likely. There were estimates that maybe one in 1 in 250 had it. Some ASD kids ended up in the legal system as juvenile delinquents. No chance of diagnosis there, you were simply a bad person.

Around the turn of the century, we started seriously looking for the condition. This coincided with the 1994 publication of the DSM-IV. Truth is that if you define something more broadly, amazingly you find more of it. A lot more. If your detection methods become more sensitive, you find more. You also find more of it if people aren't ashamed of it. Heck, now we have television shows with "cute" ASD-1 characters.

Official diagnoses of ASD are not a good measure of how prevalent the condition is but those are all the numbers we have. My own experience in the classroom has indicated that the number of children in a given class who exhibit traits consistent with being on the spectrum really hasn't changed over my lifetime.

Which brings up another point. Since ASD manifests differently in girls, finally recognizing this virtually doubled the number of diagnosable cases of ASD-1. As more girls (and boys) get diagnosed, the rate of occurrences in the population will continue to increase. It isn't an epidemic, we're just finally seeing what's been there all along.

 

[Crossbreed]

You are right. Total ASDs haven't changed, but the numbers of 2s & 3s have drastically changed; that is, the number of people who require special education and subsequent support services, as adults. When you remove ASD1s from the calculations (as California did), it becomes abundantly clear.

The "crisis" from an economic standpoint is not an exaggeration. Persons who require public support (2s & 3s, not 1s) are over-represented and outstripping public funds to do so.* Recognized or not, 1s are not (nor have ever been) a financial burden to society to that degree.

The ideal fix would be to find & eradicate the source of that new injury, so the occurrence of 2s & 3s would go back down to manageable levels. (They will still be 1s, but no longer economically threatening.)

The lazy, less-costly way to "fix the problem" would be to identify an autism gene, and selectively abort us (being "useless eaters").

*That is why the diagnosis is such a political "hot potato" in so many settings.

 

[Au Naturel]

As far as autism being a disorder... Well yeah, it is a disorder. If you cannot function in society, I call that a disorder. ASD 2 and 3 are clearly disorders. If you don't like the label of "disorder," you could start calling it a "condition" instead. I don't see the point. In medical terms the two words are synonyms. "I have a lung condition" and a "lung disorder" both mean there is something wrong with your lungs.

I have ASD-1 and I definitely consider it a disorder. Something is not working as advertised and I can't interact with society the way neurotypical people do. In my mind, it is no different than having a permanent limp. Trying to say a limp is just a normal part of human variation does not stop it from being a disability. There are many jobs and many activities that are denied you if you had a significant limp. I can't think of a better definition of disability.

I have come to the conclusion that autism persists because it is ultimately beneficial to humans. I have two lines of thinking here. Both are genetic. This is the first line.

There are many candidate genes for causing or contributing to autism. Each gene will have multiple alleles. A gene is just a locus where a trait is determined. You could have a gene for flower color. That gene could have an allele that would transcribe proteins for purple or allele that didn't produce any color at all. Since genes come in pairs, you could easily have two different alleles at the same site producing an intermediate color. To simplify things, let's say the alleles produce red and white. if you have one of each, you are pink.

Now, you are a flower. You'd like to be pollinated. Suppose bees don't care for the white flowers. It doesn't stimulate their visual receptors. Red is not the greatest either. But pink is the bee's knees! This will guarantee that the white red and white alleles will remain in circulation even though the red and white flowers don't get pollinated.

That is a very simple example. Autism likely has dozens of actual genes involved and each of those genes has multiple possible alleles. The more genes and alleles you have randomly distributing, the closer you get to a bell curve distribution of traits.

This is the true Autism spectrum. It is the human spectrum and we are part of it.

Look at the X-axis as being the severity of traits. Vertical lines are standard deviations (σ, called sigma) a mathematical way to group things by probability. The area under the curve gives the probability of having traits of a particular severity. As you can see the fat part of the curve, between - 2σ and 0 and +2σ is where most people exist. They like to call themselves "normal." Us Aspies are over on the right, the 2.41% between the +2σ and +3σ The most severe cases are beyond +3σ.

There is no sudden discontinuity between NT and ND people any more than there is a discontinuity between people who are 5 feet tall and people who are taller. +2σ just happens to be where people start having problems and get diagnosed. (I have no idea how you'd describe a person at the extreme opposite of autistic but it probably isn't good.) If we are on a spectrum, a spectrum has no end. It continues on into vast realms where it invisible.

Let's go back to that flower and use color as an analogy. We are the white-ish flowers. And there is every imaginable shade of flower from brightest white to deepest red. The pink flowers have a better time of it and that is why there are so many. Yet the "inappropriate" genes for red and white must remain in the pool in different combinations for the many shades of pink to exist. Luck of the draw that I got stuck with white-ish but (fortunately) not purest of white.

And that is balanced polymorphism.

 

[Au Naturel]

You are right. Total ASDs haven't changed, but the numbers of 2s & 3s have drastically changed; that is, the number of people who require special education and subsequent support services, as adults. When you remove ASD1s from the calculations (as California did), it becomes abundantly clear.

The "crisis" from an economic standpoint is not an exaggeration. Persons who require public support (2s & 3s, not 1s) are over-represented and outstripping public funds to do so.* Recognized or not, 1s are not (nor have ever been) a financial burden to society to that degree.

The ideal fix would be to find & eradicate the source of that new injury, so the occurrence of 2s & 3s would go back down to manageable levels. (They will still be 1s, but no longer economically threatening.)

In the schools I grew up in the more serious autistic cases were simply called retarded and moved to special-ed and a little bus. Diagnosis? Ha!

The lazy, less-costly way to "fix the problem" would be to identify an autism gene, and selectively abort us (being "useless eaters").

*That is why the diagnosis is such a political "hot potato" in so many settings.

That's the Silicone Valley effect. You have a bunch of ASD 1s and not quite ASD folks all accumulating in a local area. They will produce a MUCH higher rate of ASD 2and 3 than would normally be produced. It is true of technological jobs in general. As women move into hi-tech careers, I'd expect it to continue as a fair amount of people's marriage and mating opportunities would come from the workplace.

When I was in engineering, women were rare. A lot more randomness in how you'd meet them. You are probably correct about the increase in ASD 2 and 3.

 

[Crossbreed]

They will produce a MUCH higher rate of ASD 2and 3 than would normally be produced.

But they didn't before 1980. (That is also a tip-off that ASD1 is the base condition.) And a similar boom has been seen around the world, in 1st-3rd world countries. Notably, the USA Amish is one of the few places that have no outbreak of 2s & 3s. (I am skeptical that they don't have closeted 1s, though.)

The chart that I frequently cite is for the whole state of California, not just Silicon Valley.

 

[Crossbreed]

Something is not working as advertised and I can't interact with society the way neurotypical people do. In my mind, it is no different than having a permanent limp. Trying to say a limp is just a normal part of human variation does not stop it from being a disability. There are many jobs and many activities that are denied you if you had a significant limp.

I liken ASD1 to being left-handed (in our neurology) and/or color-blind (to NT mores).

 

[Greatshield17]

(I have no idea how you'd describe a person at the extreme opposite of autistic but it probably isn't good.)

I've heard some say that psychopathy is the polar opposite of ASD1 in regards to empathy at least. Psychopaths have cognitive empathy, but no emotional empathy, while we have emotional empathy, but no cognitive empathy. The purpose of emotions is to understand our interior and communicate it to others thus, because a psychopath has cognitive empathy, he or she can easily estimate another person's behaviour, but because the psychopath lacks emotional empathy, other people appear as mere automatons whose only value lies in how useful they are to him or her. We by contrast, because we lack cognitive empathy we can't translate well the emotions we pick up and thus it often appears as simply noise to us, often overwhelming us.

I remember one time as kid watching a Mr. Rogers episode in which he went to the doctor's office; and at one point, he had to get a shot and when that time came, I actually ran and hid in my bedroom because I had just enough empathy to be convinced that he would start crying, and I did not want to experience witnessing an adult cry!

 

[Crossbreed]

Psychopaths have cognitive empathy, but no emotional empathy, while we have emotional empathy, but no cognitive empathy.

Having worked an IT helpdesk, I am just the opposite (but ASD1, no psychopathy). I still have emotions and care about those of others, but I frequently misread theirs and do not express mine in ways that NTs are accustomed to. (A device that isn't working as expected doesn't make me particularly sad, but I see how it can be frustrating.

)