Buddhism and the nature of reality

[sencha]

Religion, particularly Buddhism, is my current obsession/interest and is perhaps the strongest one I've had in my entire life. It started about two ago, I guess. For a period of time when I first was introduced to it, I became literally obsessed with reading books on Buddhism and Eastern philosophy (I obtained a whole collection of books on these topics in a very short period of time), and resigned myself to reading and rereading all of them several times. Since I've read each of them probably a dozen times each, I feel as though I've gathered as much information as I possibly can about the philosophy of Buddhism and now I simply attempt to do sitting meditation on a daily basis and constantly have conversations (preferably with reciprocity of ideas, but I've been known to simply write a "wall of text" in an instant message session that would last literally pages long if it were written in a word processor with little to no feedback whatsoever) with whomever will listen and partake into very in-depth topics such as what the reality we're experiencing truly is, the nature of suffering and how to go about bringing an end to it, what the experience of death is, if it's possible to 'experience' it at all, what the experience of Enlightenment entails (Enlightenment is the moment at which you have a full understanding of the inner workings of the universe, the purpose to life, and the way to end suffering, etc), and so on. Almost every aspect of Buddhism thrills me, and consumes my entire life to the point where I no longer think anything else but religion/spirituality and the pursuit of Enlightenment/Nirvana really matters.

While I recognize that this isn't particularly healthy, I'm of the opinion that religion (and its contents, such as pursuing Enlightenment, etc) is the only thing in life that is worthwhile to pursue. I feel that there is a significant purpose to life: to do the best you can in life by making a wholehearted effort to follow the Noble Eightfold Path, achieving an understanding of the nature of suffering (a.k.a. Enlightenment) and life and death as a result: the reasons it arises, and the means to stop and prevent it, and finally by using the knowledge you've thus obtained to benefit mankind in every way possible. I'm reminded of a quote from Narcotics Anonymous literature that I feel applies to this whole 'process of spiritual perfection':

This sounds like a big order, and we can?t do it all at once. We didn?t become [who we currently are] in one day, so remember ? easy does it.

There is one thing more than anything else that will defeat us in our [path to spiritual perfection]; this is an attitude of indifference or intolerance toward spiritual principles. Three of these that are indispensable are honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness. With these we are well on our way.

I feel like this quote, while usually directed towards those addicted, currently on in the past, to drugs, applies well to the individual who is seeking the ultimate understanding of him- or herself and the universe at large.

I won't continue on with details of my religiosity or anything of the such, because I don't want to bore those who are either not truly interested or only passively interested in Buddhism/religion. However, anyone who is truly interested and open-minded (members of other Western/Eastern religions, atheists, agnostics, whatever) who would like to inquire about Buddhism or anything I've talked about are more than welcome to either send me a private message (but please let me know in a response to this thread as I might forget to check the PMs) or ask questions on the thread itself.

If I receive no responses to this thread, I just wish everyone a good luck with developing a better understanding of God, your religion, the afterlife, or anything else related to these. I encourage all of you who are already dedicated to a particular religion and feel it is the right fit for you, to pursue it as deeply as possible until you're totally satisfied with the answers you've gotten. For those who are currently on the border, or those who are unsure, I was atheist/agnostic prior to "becoming Buddhist," and I know how horrible it feels to not truly understand why we have to die, what it's like to die, etc. So I basically encourage those who aren't satisfied with Western religions (Christianity, etc) to possibly take a look at Eastern ones, as they might "fit" you better, as less beliefs are required and it's more focused on what you can personally experience and know for certain. There is nothing at all wrong with beliefs, I just know for me personally, it was hard to swallow something I didn't truly believe.

Thanks for reading.

 

[HelloDizzy]

I find Shintoism very interesting. It's a lot to wrap my brain around, as in "how can this make sense, it's like you have to live in Japan to practice this" but it's got a very interesting back story.

 

[sencha]

Very interesting. I've never heard of Shintoism before, although it's apparently very popular in Japan. A quick scan through its Wikipedia entry shows a lot of beliefs that, to me, seems unfounded, although serious study into it would be required to see if they have any basis for belief.

I neglected to mention that the particular sect of Buddhism I studied most rigorously was Zen. Zen puts much greater emphasis on direct experience of reality through what we call zazen, another word for sitting meditation, and attainment of Enlightenment through personal insight cultivated from practice, than it does on learning the scriptures or beliefs of most other Buddhist sects. Nothing is wrong with beliefs or the scriptures, of course, but it seems many get caught up in the beliefs of Buddhism, which eventually buck up against the beliefs of other religions, causing discord. A lot of wars and arguments have started over differences in opinion and belief. Zen just invites you to "come and see" for yourself. In Western terms, it is the search for God directly and without a strict religious context. I came to find out that it doesn't matter much how I meditate, as long as I'm simply aware of what my mind is doing. In fact, the idea is not to think of meditation as a discrete activity which you perform for a specified period of time on a cushion, but rather as everyday activity founded in everyday life. Thus, cooking, studying, listening to music, and everything you do becomes part of your meditation practice. The goal is to be able to be aware of what you're doing at all times throughout the day.

Overall: although everyone has beliefs, it's best not to attach to them too heavily, for restricting yourself to belief is what prevents a lot of people from truly seeing the miraculous thing we call the present moment and reality itself.

 

[sencha]

There's a good quote supposedly by Buddha himself that sums up the spirit of the religion in general:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

In other words, don't take my word for it, nor take Buddha's word for it. The idea is to find out yourself what is true. If you study it and find you don't agree with it, that's perfectly fine. I think it's a path that's served me well, but Christianity or other religions may provide a better avenue towards God/spiritual Enlightenment for that individual. If you rely on beliefs of others (all beliefs start from someone, at some point in time), you're essentially allowing them to speak for God, instead of you "going directly to the source," so to speak. What you hear from others may or may not be true. Christianity may or not be true. There is no way to know for certain without going directly to the source.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I like that idea of finding our for yourself. I don't know much about Budism. I have heard/read that it dose have similarities to Christianity although that quote you just spoke of by Buddah seems the oposite of Christianity. Christianity woud be more like'have faith... faith is beleiveing in what you don't understand'. Christianity/ Catholic is the only relegion anyone around here ossociate with. If someone said they are 'Budist', or 'athiest' it would be a terrable thing. Everyone would be praying for your lost sole. I don't talk much about religious beleife as my ideas would not be accepted. I have come to the point myself where I don't like to 'follow', or whtever a certain relegion but rather find my spiritual path on my own intuitivley. It almost seems that this is the nature of what Budism is guideing one to do. I like that.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I am interested in meditation too. I have tried it but not a lot and not on a regular basis. I have never 'gotten ' it, or fealth the benifits of it, or mabey not done it right or something. I practice self hypnosis a lot more than meditation. It is similaar yet different.

You spoke about about 'the nature of suffering and how to go about bring an end to it'. I am interested in what Budisms prospective is on this if you wouldn't mind conveying in a nut shell.

 

[sencha]

I don't talk much about religious beleife as my ideas would not be accepted.

I'd be more than willing and interested in hearing about your beliefs without passing judgment if you want to share in a private message. As you mentioned, Buddhism is not well understood in the US, and as such, people tend to think I'm a little crazy because Eastern philosophy is not well grasped by those with only a Western background, so I definitely understand where you're coming from.

I am interested in meditation too. I have tried it but not a lot and not on a regular basis. I have never 'gotten ' it, or fealth the benifits of it, or mabey not done it right or something. I practice self hypnosis a lot more than meditation. It is similaar yet different.

Sitting meditation (what is normally thought of as "meditation") does not produce results like most everything else you attempt to do in life. Usually, we work hard at something and expect to have some sort of result. This is simply not so with meditation. I've heard sitting meditation described by Zen masters as "useless," and yet these same people practice it for sometimes several hours a day. From my own experience, meditation will get you no where. However, by practicing it, we subconsciously learn how to be meditative during our everyday life outside of the period of time we spend on the cushion. It's a very simple activity that is made into something incredibly difficult because of the way our minds normally work. I'm not an expert by any means, so if you're truly interested in practicing meditation, I'd suggest reading some books on the topic, as these people have more experience than I do.

You spoke about about 'the nature of suffering and how to go about bring an end to it'. I am interested in what Budisms prospective is on this if you wouldn't mind conveying in a nut shell.

The First Noble Truth of Buddhism is that life is characterized by suffering. To me, this is fact. That's not to say life is horrible, it's just saying that there is an underlying dissatisfaction that never fully goes away regardless of the amount of pleasure or pain we experience. We know at a subconscious (and sometimes even conscious) level that everything that currently brings us happiness will eventually pass away and die. Whether it's our friends, family, our favorite pet, our lover, objects, etc, all must eventually pass away.

Relative suffering, such as pain, sadness, is something that you can never escape until death. People/favorite pets will die, you will die. This seems very dismal/depressing (and many people think Buddhism is a very pessimistic and negative religion), until you accept that there is an end to true suffering--the true ache of the heart. There's a way to look at life/reality and understand things in a way that makes it literally all go away. The reality/life that we all take to be so real is in fact, in my understanding, a grand illusion. My understanding is that reality as we see it is simply like a dream. Dreams are sometimes frightening/painful or extremely pleasurable, but they eventually end, and you wake up. It's not that we're all dreaming right now and we're all going to wake up to another reality. It's that we understand reality as we're experiencing it now to be all there is, essentially. We think our lives are simply that which we see, rather than seeing the whole picture. Life, suffering, and pleasure are all transitory by their very nature. In Buddhism, we call this Impermanence. While I certainly don't and cannot claim to be enlightened by any means, it's my understanding that a full grasp on the nature of impermanence will lead one to Nirvana while still on earth. My belief is that following the path long enough will produce a feeling unlike any you've ever experienced, wherein you'll still feel pain and pleasure but it will be understood and felt in a completely different manner. Instead of being caught up in it, it will essentially become like a waking dream, in which you'll understand that it's only a dream and will no longer be frightened or taken in by it.

It's something you really have to feel instead of just comprehend with your intellect. When you're watching a movie, you get caught up in the movie to the point where you feel like you're actually participating or are "there." Reality can be compared to a movie. We get caught up in the "images" on the screen and completely forget that it's just a screen we're watching. The "screen" is technically the real, eternal you, rather than the body you're currently "trapped in." The experience of death will be universal to everyone, including believers and nonbelievers, animals and humans, plants, etc, and will be nothing but perfect peace of mind: entirely lacking in experience as we understand it, but blissful nonetheless.

I don't really know how else to explain this, unfortunately.

 

[Spinning Compass]

I first learned about Buddhism when I was in high school. There is much I like about it but--as with all religions--much I can't swallow about it either. Mainly the idea of reincarnation. I don't know if you can be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation. I know you can be a Buddhist and not believe in God, which a lot of non-Buddhists have trouble understanding. I haven't taken the time to find out if there is a Buddhist community near me.

On first impression Buddhism does seem to be a negative religion--isn't there more to life than avoiding suffering? Maybe it's because I don't understand it well enough. I do find the Four Noble Truths helpful in dealing with stress--I get so attached to things, to deadlines, to perfectionism. And I think Buddhism is far more compatible with science than say the kind of Christianity I find myself in right now. (We are studying Genesis right now and the pastor believes every single word of it is History and not mythology or legend, which I simply cannot accept.) Buddhism seems to be more practical when it comes to life.

I am a bit wary though of getting involved with a Buddhist community because some of the Buddhist groups I have heard about sound pretty cult-like to me and I have no way of evaluating who is who. The same dangers also exist within Christianity but there I am on familiar ground and can more easily evaluate where a group is coming from. But I would like to learn more about Buddhism from those who are practicing it and not just from books.

 

[Biblio-Love]

There's a way to look at life/reality and understand things in a way that makes it literally all go away. The reality/life that we all take to be so real is in fact, in my understanding, a grand illusion. My understanding is that reality as we see it is simply like a dream. Dreams are sometimes frightening/painful or extremely pleasurable, but they eventually end, and you wake up.

It sounds like a matrix movie to me.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I absoollutley relate and agree and understand haveing a way of looking at life that can create 'nerrvona'. You, or Busism explains it in a different way than I have learned/experienced or encountered the concept but it means the same.

 

[smith2267]

Religion and science are going to meet someday. Some say one or the other will explain the fundamental nature of the universe, but I think we are going to find out they are the same.
Time in particular bothers me. I have not yet heard a credible explanation of what it is and why it only appears to move in one direction.
Why isn't it yesterday?

 

[Undiagnosed]

I first learned about Buddhism when I was in high school. There is much I like about it but--as with all religions--much I can't swallow about it either. Mainly the idea of reincarnation. I don't know if you can be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation. I know you can be a Buddhist and not believe in God, which a lot of non-Buddhists have trouble understanding. I haven't taken the time to find out if there is a Buddhist community near me.

On first impression Buddhism does seem to be a negative religion--isn't there more to life than avoiding suffering? Maybe it's because I don't understand it well enough. I do find the Four Noble Truths helpful in dealing with stress--I get so attached to things, to deadlines, to perfectionism. And I think Buddhism is far more compatible with science than say the kind of Christianity I find myself in right now. (We are studying Genesis right now and the pastor believes every single word of it is History and not mythology or legend, which I simply cannot accept.) Buddhism seems to be more practical when it comes to life.

I am a bit wary though of getting involved with a Buddhist community because some of the Buddhist groups I have heard about sound pretty cult-like to me and I have no way of evaluating who is who. The same dangers also exist within Christianity but there I am on familiar ground and can more easily evaluate where a group is coming from. But I would like to learn more about Buddhism from those who are practicing it and not just from books.

I would imagion that would be the trouble with any religion Spining. I know in Chrisstain churches there are plenty of members there for reasons other than worshiping God. I supose there is nothing wrong with that in itself. It is the fact that most of them claim to be there to worship God. I don't know who you present your weiws in your church but I can see how if you were not to be compleatley honest you would feel more a part and accepted by your fellow church members. And seeing as how you depend on this support system of the church and have no where else to turn for a suport ststem I would see your point in doing so. I'm not saying that's what you do, just saying if that's how it is. But it appears to me that some in churches are compleatley hypocritikcal for no reason other than to maintain a certain appearance. I just have to say to be fair I know ther are some compleatley pure hearted people in churches as well. It is the hypocrassy and judgment I see that caused me to not be a part of a church or really any religion. Then alos it is the nature of christianity that I beleive leads people to 'fake' ceertain aspects. Christianity is a strict religion with no room for beleifs that do not match its own. At least the churches around my area. I understand Spinning that you can feel safe with the particular group you are with but am saying is you were to look for another church or group of any religion you (or I) couldn not automatically trust any of them.

Have you realized the irony of the compaiison between you and me in this matter?? YOu go to church yet don't beleive in God, where I do beleive in God but don't go to churck... LOL

 

[Undiagnosed]

Religion and science are going to meet someday. Some say one or the other will explain the fundamental nature of the universe, but I think we are going to find out they are the same.
Time in particular bothers me. I have not yet heard a credible explanation of what it is and why it only appears to move in one direction.
Why isn't it yesterday?

They are the same Smith? What are the same? If you con't mind clairifying.

 

[Undiagnosed]

So a couple more questions to you Sencha, if you don't mind.

I am guessing Buddah is the name of the man who started Busism? Sorry if it's too simple of question but it's on my mind for a reason.

And I am curious..... Would the God Buddah speaks of supposidley be the same God christianity speaks of?

 

[Divrom]

The person who "started" Buddhism - if that's an appropriate way to put it - was Prince Siddharta Gautama. 'The Buddha' means 'the Enlightened One'.

And, interestingly, Buddhism is strictly speaking a non-theist faith.

So a couple more questions to you Sencha, if you don't mind.

I am guessing Buddah is the name of the man who started Busism? Sorry if it's too simple of question but it's on my mind for a reason.

And I am curious..... Would the God Buddah speaks of supposidley be the same God christianity speaks of?

 

[smith2267]

The person who "started" Buddhism - if that's an appropriate way to put it - was Prince Siddharta Gautama. 'The Buddha' means 'the Enlightened One'.

And, interestingly, Buddhism is strictly speaking a non-theist faith.

Yes, that is correct. Siddartha was a young prince who, when he saw poverty and suffering in the world (in the form of a beggar), renounced his wealth and devoted himself to achieving enlightenment. According to the tenets of buddhism, he succeeded. I believe he meditated under a tree for a very long time, but don't quote me

 

[sencha]

I've been a little busy lately and haven't had time to post, but I'll definitely try to spend some time before I head to bed tonight to reply with my thoughts on the things you guys have brought up. If I haven't already said it, please keep in mind that what I'm saying may be completely wrong; I am no Zen master by any means. I'm just a guy with AS whose main interest is Buddhism Everything I say is based on my personal experience and knowledge. I wish I had the experiences of those who are devout Christians (or are devout <insert religion>) so I could make an informed decision regarding their religion, but that's just not possible, unfortunately.

I look forward to posting after work tonight

 

[Undiagnosed]

The person who "started" Buddhism - if that's an appropriate way to put it - was Prince Siddharta Gautama. 'The Buddha' means 'the Enlightened One'.

And, interestingly, Buddhism is strictly speaking a non-theist faith.

Qbviousley I am very new to this and don't know about Budism but am interested. So Divron what is a "non-theist faith"?

 

[smith2267]

Qbviousley I am very new to this and don't know about Budism but am interested. So Divron what is a "non-theist faith"?

The divinity they seek to attain is a state of being, not a being. It's something they become

 

[Iskios]

The divinity they seek to attain is a state of being, not a being. It's something they become

I can't see any conflict between this belief and theism...

P.S. similar concept (that god is the being itself) exists in Sufism which I'm obsessed with (I'm especially obsessed with Rumi and his teachings)