Buddhism and the nature of reality

[Daniel]

Religion and science are going to meet someday. Some say one or the other will explain the fundamental nature of the universe, but I think we are going to find out they are the same.
Time in particular bothers me. I have not yet heard a credible explanation of what it is and why it only appears to move in one direction.
Why isn't it yesterday?

My two cents...

It isn't yesterday because the only way one can ask that question is to have evolved a mind that can conceive of "all time." We have a physical awareness of the moment, like all living things, but we humans also have a mental awareness of time to come and time that must have come before. That awareness and knowledge exists in the noosphere, the level of ideas.

At the level of ideas, you can make up anything if you use that level's internal logic as your baseline for making sense of things. The noosphere exists in the biosphere which exists in the geosphere. In the biosphere, time goes forward, and we know that because we're born and then later, we die. We see it happen to everyone, and we know it will happen to each of us. There can be bodies without minds, but not minds without bodies (there can be spirit without bodies, but not mind).

Time--the real thing that happens and not our idea of it--happens because space moves. Things move in the biosphere, and then they die.

That's my take on it, anyway! Hope that made a little bit of sense. Sometimes I have a hard time with that.

 

[sbcpetew]

What are you thoughts about the relationship between the body and the spirit? I wounder if there is a deep relationship between the physical and the spiritual. Is it possible to have a spirit without a body? or a body without a spirit? We understand that no matter can be created or destroyed it can only change states (2nd law of thermal dynamics). The stuff that makes atoms will live forever and ever. I thought this was interesting because of how similar it is to ideas of the eternal nature of the soul. There are some interesting constants in the observable universe, like how all people look similar but every single person is completely unique, this apply to everything. Even if you made 2 chairs that look identical there would be differences because of the wood you use ect, it is impossible to make something perfectly identical. At the same time all humans look similar, so there is a relationship between order us all looking alike, and chaos the unique differences that make every person special. I have a question maby you can help me answer. If there is a "God" did he create evil (entropy, death, bad stuff) or was it a accident. If it was a accident it says that god is not omniscient. If there is a intelligent God I dont think he made a mistake. I think bad stuff is absolutely nessesary. Its natures change agent, it clears away the old to make room for the new. Also if everything was perfect (no death evil ect) we couldent appreciate it. For example if you eat icecream for every meal all of a sudden it doesn't taste as good. Another example I saw a interview with a convict who had been in solitary confinement for 10 years. He hasent seen the sun or walked on grass in that time. All he knows is cold pain fear depression. when he was released the thing that he missed the most wasn't hanging out with friends at the bar or tv shows, but the nature. Things we all take for granted every day. But because of all the bad that he suffered through he has a very deep appreciation for the "good" things. but that appreciation is only made through the bad stuff he had to deal with. Its like the bad is what makes the good good. You cant have good with out bad. and the worse things get the stronger the effect of the good. IDK its just some ideas. Shoot me a message if you want to talk more. or reply to this thread.

 

[Undiagnosed]

What are you thoughts about the relationship between the body and the spirit? I wounder if there is a deep relationship between the physical and the spiritual. Is it possible to have a spirit without a body? or a body without a spirit? We understand that no matter can be created or destroyed it can only change states (2nd law of thermal dynamics). The stuff that makes atoms will live forever and ever. I thought this was interesting because of how similar it is to ideas of the eternal nature of the soul. There are some interesting constants in the observable universe, like how all people look similar but every single person is completely unique, this apply to everything. Even if you made 2 chairs that look identical there would be differences because of the wood you use ect, it is impossible to make something perfectly identical. At the same time all humans look similar, so there is a relationship between order us all looking alike, and chaos the unique differences that make every person special. I have a question maby you can help me answer. If there is a "God" did he create evil (entropy, death, bad stuff) or was it a accident. If it was a accident it says that god is not omniscient. If there is a intelligent God I dont think he made a mistake. I think bad stuff is absolutely nessesary. Its natures change agent, it clears away the old to make room for the new. Also if everything was perfect (no death evil ect) we couldent appreciate it. For example if you eat icecream for every meal all of a sudden it doesn't taste as good. Another example I saw a interview with a convict who had been in solitary confinement for 10 years. He hasent seen the sun or walked on grass in that time. All he knows is cold pain fear depression. when he was released the thing that he missed the most wasn't hanging out with friends at the bar or tv shows, but the nature. Things we all take for granted every day. But because of all the bad that he suffered through he has a very deep appreciation for the "good" things. but that appreciation is only made through the bad stuff he had to deal with. Its like the bad is what makes the good good. You cant have good with out bad. and the worse things get the stronger the effect of the good. IDK its just some ideas. Shoot me a message if you want to talk more. or reply to this thread.

I agree. People often ask questions such as 'why dose such a bad thing happen to a good person?' etc. The way I put it... There is a 'gift' in every single happening even the worst of the worst. If a person chooses to seek the 'gift' they will find it. I.E. the gift of true apprreciation for everyday life, nature etc. from your example. None of us who have not lived the experience this man has will know the true appreciation that he dose. These are things one has to LIVE threw personaly to know, things one can talk about and explain all they want but the message will never come across to another person as it dose the one who lived it. Each of us has our own experiences which have let to 'gifts' for us. That is if we have chosen to accept athe gift. What I mean is we can also choose to only focus on the sarrow of the situation and overlook the 'gift' and never accept the insights . Instead of gaining a great appreciation of nature and everyday life he could have became resentfull and hatefull toward life and all people. He could have chosen to always dwell on the sorrow of his past situation. Every single thing that ever happens to us in our life is like this. Since I have came to this way of thinkin I have been spaired much stress, greif, and worry. Worry is of no use whatsoever in this mindset. Every insodent I see a loved one endure is of no cause for worry. Consern yes at times, but worry is of no use. I know that outcome of each and every happening is not good or bad. It is whatever the mind of the person chooses (even though it is probably an unconsious choice at the time). Everyone of them can be good and each person has to find his path to that way of thinking to make it happen. Once this idea is grasped one can truley look back on life without a single regret. One can truley appreciate everysingle happening that has brought them to where they are now, both the good and the badc. And once tthe idea is grasped one can be in the midst of a seemingley tererable situation and know at the very moment they are in it that there is a 'gifit ' to come of it.

 

[sbcpetew]

I agree. People often ask questions such as 'why dose such a bad thing happen to a good person?' etc. The way I put it... There is a 'gift' in every single happening even the worst of the worst. If a person chooses to seek the 'gift' they will find it. I.E. the gift of true apprreciation for everyday life, nature etc. from your example. None of us who have not lived the experience this man has will know the true appreciation that he dose. These are things one has to LIVE threw personaly to know, things one can talk about and explain all they want but the message will never come across to another person as it dose the one who lived it. Each of us has our own experiences which have let to 'gifts' for us. That is if we have chosen to accept athe gift. What I mean is we can also choose to only focus on the sarrow of the situation and overlook the 'gift' and never accept the insights . Instead of gaining a great appreciation of nature and everyday life he could have became resentfull and hatefull toward life and all people. He could have chosen to always dwell on the sorrow of his past situation. Every single thing that ever happens to us in our life is like this. Since I have came to this way of thinkin I have been spaired much stress, greif, and worry. Worry is of no use whatsoever in this mindset. Every insodent I see a loved one endure is of no cause for worry. Consern yes at times, but worry is of no use. I know that outcome of each and every happening is not good or bad. It is whatever the mind of the person chooses (even though it is probably an unconsious choice at the time). Everyone of them can be good and each person has to find his path to that way of thinking to make it happen. Once this idea is grasped one can truley look back on life without a single regret. One can truley appreciate everysingle happening that has brought them to where they are now, both the good and the badc. And once tthe idea is grasped one can be in the midst of a seemingley tererable situation and know at the very moment they are in it that there is a 'gifit ' to come of it.

great post, reminds me of a Aerosmith lyric "you have to lose to know how to win" I was thinking about what is intelligence. Ive been trying to find what my view of intelligence is. Tests like the IQ rub me the wrong way, they focus on very specific aspects of intelligence. I feel that gauging someone off IQ is like trying to compare a shark against a monkey in its ability to climb a tree. In that local/spefic aspect the monkey would outshine the shark in its tree climbing abilitys. But when it comes to swimming the shark would run circles around it. Everyone has strengths and weakness, so how do you compare a apple to a orange. I feel intelligence isnt some kind of information you memorize, I mean that could be a part of it. I think intelligence is a state of mind. The stupid person is the one who thinks they don't have anything to learn. The smart person is the one who is contently learning, because it is impossible to know something completely, there is always something to learn. I think being effective at what you do is the bi product of this philosophy. This is just a idea I would love to hear what you think.

 

[total-recoil]

I suggest you might enjoy checking out the series Kung Fu, starring David Carradine. This was a seventies martial arts series that includes teachings of Zen Taoism in a way that would introduce viewers to the philosophy. This is done by flashbacks to the Shaolin Temple where the protagonist is being taught the Tao.
Actually Kung Fu has a strong spiritual base as it was recognised defence needs to be as less offensive as possible so the monks were taught to defend with minimum force.
I became interested in Eastern philosophy thanks to this series which was cleverly done and I think the first to actually use Zen teachings in the script. Carradine himself said he eventually became more interested in the philosophy than the martial arts side.
There is one episdode where perception of reality is mentioned.

Religion, particularly Buddhism, is my current obsession/interest and is perhaps the strongest one I've had in my entire life. It started about two ago, I guess. For a period of time when I first was introduced to it, I became literally obsessed with reading books on Buddhism and Eastern philosophy (I obtained a whole collection of books on these topics in a very short period of time), and resigned myself to reading and rereading all of them several times. Since I've read each of them probably a dozen times each, I feel as though I've gathered as much information as I possibly can about the philosophy of Buddhism and now I simply attempt to do sitting meditation on a daily basis and constantly have conversations (preferably with reciprocity of ideas, but I've been known to simply write a "wall of text" in an instant message session that would last literally pages long if it were written in a word processor with little to no feedback whatsoever) with whomever will listen and partake into very in-depth topics such as what the reality we're experiencing truly is, the nature of suffering and how to go about bringing an end to it, what the experience of death is, if it's possible to 'experience' it at all, what the experience of Enlightenment entails (Enlightenment is the moment at which you have a full understanding of the inner workings of the universe, the purpose to life, and the way to end suffering, etc), and so on. Almost every aspect of Buddhism thrills me, and consumes my entire life to the point where I no longer think anything else but religion/spirituality and the pursuit of Enlightenment/Nirvana really matters.

While I recognize that this isn't particularly healthy, I'm of the opinion that religion (and its contents, such as pursuing Enlightenment, etc) is the only thing in life that is worthwhile to pursue. I feel that there is a significant purpose to life: to do the best you can in life by making a wholehearted effort to follow the Noble Eightfold Path, achieving an understanding of the nature of suffering (a.k.a. Enlightenment) and life and death as a result: the reasons it arises, and the means to stop and prevent it, and finally by using the knowledge you've thus obtained to benefit mankind in every way possible. I'm reminded of a quote from Narcotics Anonymous literature that I feel applies to this whole 'process of spiritual perfection':

This sounds like a big order, and we can’t do it all at once. We didn’t become [who we currently are] in one day, so remember – easy does it.

There is one thing more than anything else that will defeat us in our [path to spiritual perfection]; this is an attitude of indifference or intolerance toward spiritual principles. Three of these that are indispensable are honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness. With these we are well on our way.

I feel like this quote, while usually directed towards those addicted, currently on in the past, to drugs, applies well to the individual who is seeking the ultimate understanding of him- or herself and the universe at large.

I won't continue on with details of my religiosity or anything of the such, because I don't want to bore those who are either not truly interested or only passively interested in Buddhism/religion. However, anyone who is truly interested and open-minded (members of other Western/Eastern religions, atheists, agnostics, whatever) who would like to inquire about Buddhism or anything I've talked about are more than welcome to either send me a private message (but please let me know in a response to this thread as I might forget to check the PMs) or ask questions on the thread itself.

If I receive no responses to this thread, I just wish everyone a good luck with developing a better understanding of God, your religion, the afterlife, or anything else related to these. I encourage all of you who are already dedicated to a particular religion and feel it is the right fit for you, to pursue it as deeply as possible until you're totally satisfied with the answers you've gotten. For those who are currently on the border, or those who are unsure, I was atheist/agnostic prior to "becoming Buddhist," and I know how horrible it feels to not truly understand why we have to die, what it's like to die, etc. So I basically encourage those who aren't satisfied with Western religions (Christianity, etc) to possibly take a look at Eastern ones, as they might "fit" you better, as less beliefs are required and it's more focused on what you can personally experience and know for certain. There is nothing at all wrong with beliefs, I just know for me personally, it was hard to swallow something I didn't truly believe.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Divrom]

I can't see any conflict between this belief and theism...

P.S. similar concept (that god is the being itself) exists in Sufism which I'm obsessed with (I'm especially obsessed with Rumi and his teachings)

There isn't necessarily any conflict. I didn't say it was atheist, but non-theist.

That is, the question of the existence of a divine being(s) is not one that Buddhism is aiming to answer. Some Buddhists may believe in a god, some might not. It's just not the point.

The Judeo-Christian concept of God in the West however - all knowing, all powerful, sentient Being - is not one that many Buddhists would hold to.

 

[Aalo]

The idea of reincarnation was for long time really big obstacle for me. It doesn't fit in my scientific world view, and I'm yet still not sure how I handle that. But back at that later.
But I consider having obtained zen Buddhists philosophy over times. Whether some people seem to be afraid that the way Buddhists see emptiness might lead to nihilism, I could say it was just the opposite that happened to me. After understanding that bowing out a lot only isn't sad and exhaustive for me, but also liberating I've learned not to attach myself emotionally on materia, and as I regard metaphysics, that more closely covers anything. As I don't like the confrontation that only misery is good and success corrupts, as if not any good incident ever could be taken as a benefit for personal growth, I think that in what stage of mind and life situation ever people are, there can be found some joy and some dissonances, which only implies that the ways we perceive our lives is trivial. That the relation between our surroundings and our thoughts might not have relatio measured by any means we came to known. Realizing that has also helped me coping with my AS.

As I do characterize myself rather as a nontheistic or atheist than theistic non-believer, I so much fear the rejection it causes. It doesn't mean I hate anyone's god, just that I can't feel reason for one myself. It's also not a question whether I believe there is/are or is/are not god(s), but that the whole concept feels irrelevant in contrast of all significancies it gets in different reference groups. I'm completely indifferent to where other people get their guidance from, as long as they can be respectful and wise in what they do.
I'm a person, who just couldn't take anything with too many made up names rules, and regulations for real, and that is why I must deny all teachings of every teacher, and is why I can't feel my Buddhism as a religion but a philosophy of my life course. These terms I.e. in yoga, meditation, distract me too much from the thought itself: there is name for right breathing and for right way to contract certain muscles, and that is the reason I've never been able to do yoga. I don't meditate either in the way it's usually understood. For me it's not about concentrating, but rather to doing nothing in the nothingness I am. Even the title of enlightenment feels unfamiliar to me. The question about nature of rebirth sounds strange, yet it's nothing I'd have say in. I don't need to think about Nirvana to be who I am, if It'll concern me at some point that will happen without entitlement.

 

[xubly]

I was raised as a Christian. Now that I'm older, I see religion in a whole new other way. I don't have a certain belief per say, but I don't believe we die after death either. Whether it's to fix our past mistakes or to fulfill the purpose we should've done already. I believe there is more than one lifetime. I say this due to dreams I've had, stories I've heard and research I've done on my own. Deja vu is a funny thing and I definitely don't think they're a coincidence. I believe we are all here for a purpose. I also think and believe that we're all praising the same God in every religion. I don't think there is a major difference because people choose to believe whatever it is they choose to. I've always been really in touch with who I am and I mean that spiritually. I can easily feel when someone walks in the room when my eyes are closed. The energy feel is very important to me. It doesn't matter who it is I meet, I can always tell right away what they're feeling as long as I'm paying close attention to their energy. It also makes it easy for me to tell if someone is lying. I apologize for confusing anyone. This subject has always been hard for me to explain without my husband in a logical way for others to truly understand. What I do know is this though, this world is slowly becoming more and more crippled by society. Earth is tired of our ways and is finally speaking up. I just hope we all can make a change together for the earth's sake and our's. Who knows, maybe the Golden Children will come save us. Supposedly, children who are born in the year 2000 and up are known to be the Golden Children to save our world from rotting. Also, those born in the 80's are supposedly the Indigo Children and those born in the 90's are the Rainbow Children. At least that's what the Mayans say I think I'll end it here in case nothing I said made any sense.

 

[Aalo]

This might as well be suitable for other threads too, but for now I feel like sharing this in here. I just found interesting article about human brains and their need for attachment. It might have foreign semantics for some, but I found it truly interesting and worth comparing to thoughts of my own. Yet it could be said that attachment and obsession have led to emanations of genius, the question whether expounding emotions, and to what extent, can be good, is interesting. Still, I don't have ability to deny myself attachments nor have any reason to want to behave emotionless.

 

[Mellotron]

I've had an interest in Buddhism for a little while and I'm now getting back into it. I read a couple of books on it, notably "Awakening the Buddah Within" by Surya Das and found it to be something that fits me. I grew up with religion but never really was able to make logical sense of the beliefs so I just went with it until adulthood when I dropped it. My understanding of Buddhism is that it isn't a religion but more of a philosophy. I read about the 4 noble truths and the Eightfold path and found them to be just something that makes sense to me. Coupling that with some meditation was very helpful to me and gave me the beginnings of a sense of peace. Life got a little crazy and the peace got away from me but I'm finding that I want to be back in that peaceful place again so I'm re-reading the above book and looking to immerse myself more in Buddhism to see what I can learn from it.

 

[jawbonegroove]

i'll give ouotes if anyone wants them.

lao tzu. chuang tzu.

zen koans or older (pre-religious) buddhist texts are insightful.

shinto has a lot of very interesting aspects aside from religious implications/dogma.

the philosophy of c.s. lewis is interesting. along with the older hebrew texts (when they are literally/accurately translated).

 

[jawbonegroove]

i'll give ouotes if anyone wants them.

lao tzu. chang tzu. zen koans or older (pre-religious) buddhist texts. old hebrew texts are also very interesting when literally/accurately translated. c.s. lewis' philosophical commentaries are also unique. aside from dogmatic/religous artifice shinto has some striking elements.

 

[lostinspace]

While I am not the person who produced this video, it describes my religious journey almost exactly. He also thinks very much the way I do about things in a very uncanny way. I wonder if he is an Aspie?

BTW, I am the "Question Everything" (with the same avatar) who sometimes posts on religion forums.

 

[Daigu]

There is quite a few Buddhist websites that can answer alot of questions. One of the best i have ran across is: Accesstoinsight.org. It is Thervadin and covers most of the basics. There is also ebooks in their text archives that get into various subjects Also a good tool there is the index by subject. I have used Buddhism as a survival tool for quite a few years now. I study what you might call a pratekya buddhist path which gets me into Therevadin, Zen, Tibetan and anything that I find useful. Accesstoinsight works under the principle that Dharma(teachings) should be free to help others...so this is not a commercial operation