Can it really be aspergers?

[Judge]

The medical community most certainly is not on the same page, and I would never expect uniform agreement on any issue, especially when it's not "settled."

Exactly. The issue is not settled...yet medical professionals as a regulatory body (DSM5) still manage to project the impression that it's all etched in stone. Never mind going from a specific disorder to a "spectrum". It almost appears as if they have thrown their hands up in professional frustration.

That's unnerving to think such people have this kind of power over anyone diagnosed as such under these circumstances.

 

[Ereth]

I am officially diagnosed with Aspergers, which is a condition not an illness. I have in the past suffered from depression which is a mental illness. Im not bothered by saying this, as you can't help getting ill (So, you broke your leg. Shame on you!)

Illness is not another way of describing the way your neurons are wired in your brain. I beat depression, and am no longer under it's grip. I am still autistic, and do not need curing of that.

No one's advocating that you be cured of autism. But you should understand what the definition of mental illness is, straight up, because illness can be described, clinically speaking, as the way a brain is wired. (God, I hate that I'm citing Wikipedia, but this article is perfectly reasonable.)

A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life (disability), and which is not developmentally or socially normative. Mental disorders are generally defined by a combination of how a person feels, acts, thinks or perceives. This may be associated with particular regions or functions of the brain or rest of the nervous system, often in a social context. Mental disorder is one aspect of mental health.

Isn't this basically what autism is? A mental or behavioral pattern that causes an impaired ability to function in ordinary life?

Depression falls under this definition too, but what makes autism the exception to the rule? This is why context is important. I have cerebral palsy, which is universally defined as a "disability"---in my case, it means my ability to walk is impaired. But it's only insulting when the person using the term "disability" intends to be.

 

[Judge]

I see autism only as a potential conflict in communication with non-autistic people in a non-autistic world. A social dynamic not much different than people of differing cultures having to find common ground to deal with one another. Or people in the GLBT community attempting to coexist with heterosexuals.

But comorbid conditions like clinical depression and OCD...they negatively impact me without socialization even being an issue. For me they ARE an "illness". There's no semantical argument for that, IMO.

 

[Ereth]

I see autism only as a potential conflict in communication with non-autistic people in a non-autistic world. A social dynamic not much different than people of differing cultures having to find common ground to deal with one another. Or people in the GLBT community attempting to coexist with heterosexuals.

But comorbid conditions like clinical depression and OCD...they negatively impact me without socialization even being an issue. For me they ARE an "illness". There's no semantical argument for that, IMO.

And yet in insisting that autism is not clinically definable as an illness while depression and OCD are, you have made a semantic argument, and thus it will continue on ad infinitum. But we've derailed this thread enough, don't you think? I think we should start a new topic if we wish to discuss this any further.

 

[Judge]

And yet in insisting that autism is not clinically definable as an illness while depression and OCD are, you have made a semantic argument, and thus it will continue on ad infinitum. But we've derailed this thread enough, don't you think? I think we should start a new topic if we wish to discuss this any further.

Well, if you want to insist that Autism is an "illness" that is your prerogative. It's definitely not mine.

No matter how anyone may attempt to argue that point.

 

[Ereth]

Well, if you want to insist that Autism is an "illness" that is your prerogative. It's definitely not mine.

No matter how anyone may attempt to argue that point.

I was insisting nothing. I only wanted to play devil's advocate and make some necessary points. I'm not the one using "illness" with its negative connotations, okay?

 

[Judge]

I was insisting nothing. I only wanted to play devil's advocate and make some necessary points. I'm not the one using "illness" with its negative connotations, okay?

That depends. Do you believe in your own opinion that autism is an "illness"?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[Ereth]

That depends. Do you believe in your own opinion that autism is an "illness"?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

A yes or no answer is insufficient for me, however, and should be insufficient for anyone who wishes to understand what I was actually saying.

Is autism an illness under the strictest dictionary definition/denotation (meaning the definition is in a vacuum with no positive or negative connotations as applied by culture and society)? Yes.

Do I believe autism should be treated as a defect, and that people with autism are somehow less than human as a result? Absolutely not---no more than I believe my cerebral palsy or my depression or any other condition should be.

For anyone sincerely interested in what I've had to say in my recent posts, it's related to denotation versus connotation, which is entirely relevant to my argument.

 

[Judge]

Do I believe autism should be treated as a defect, and that people with autism are somehow less than human as a result? Absolutely not

That's all I was looking for.

I only care for what people mean. Not how carefully they attempt to word it.

 

[Tarragon]

I have received a reply, which I think I'd better post here as it has become embedded in this thread. I still firmly believe that there's a fundamental difference between an illness, which can be cured or treated, and a condition. Food for thought, but here's the reply, and probably enough here to begin a separate thread, Sorry!

Basically, just because someone is different from the majority shouldn't classify them as less important. Who is to say the majority is the correct way of being, etc etc.



----

Thank you for writing NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. We recently received your email regarding the classification as a mental disorder. We hope that this information helps to clarify our position.

NAMI, as well as many autism organizations in the U.S., follow the American Psychiatric Association (APA) definition of mental illness as a “clinically significant disturbance in an individual’s cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.” (DSM-5, p. 20. APA, 2013).

The World Health Organization (WHO) also lists autism disorders under “Disorders of psychological development” in the “Mental and Behavioral Disorders” section of International Classification of Diseases, 10th edition (ICD-10). (ICD-10 Version:2010

As The U.S. Autism and Asperger Society notes (US Autism and Asperger Association that autism spectrum disorders are diagnosed as mental illness:

WHAT IS AUTISM, ASPERGER SYNDROME, AND PERVASIVE DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDERS?
There are two established systems for identifying mental disorders: The International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision, Clinical Modification (ICD-10-CM) produced by the World Health Organization (WHO), and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) published by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

Research at NIMH (NIMH · Mental Health Information also suggests, but has not proved definitively, that people with many mental illness are predisposed, perhaps from birth or earlier, to develop their disorders.

Ultimately, how an illness is classified is far less important than how people, and society as a whole, treat each other. No one is “better” simply because they are or are not included in a particular group. To distance oneself from others who are engaged in their own private struggle merely dehumanizes them and promotes stigma.

I hope this has been helpful. If you have more questions about this or any other matter, please feel free to contact the NAMl Information HelpLine by email at [email protected], by calling 1 (800) 950-6264 during the hours above, or by visiting our website at NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness - Mental Health Support, Education and Advocacy

Sincerely,

 

[Ereth]

That's all I was looking for.

I only care for what people mean. Not how carefully they attempt to word it.

And that right there is what I'm talking about regarding denotation versus connotation: you assume that "illness" inherently means something bad because society has created a stigma around it. That's connotation. NAMI's definition is exclusively denotative and meant to carry no stigma.

The thing about "illness versus condition" as I'll call Tarragon's concept, is that there are chronic, lifelong illnesses (conditions). Again, essentially this boils down to denotation versus connotation, which is an element of semantics, and context.

But we really ought to start a new thread for something like this. We're definitely not in Kansas anymore. Sorry, Jen, for stealing yours!

 

[dragonwolf]

Aspergers syndrome is quite remarkable to say the least. The fact that a child with this illness doesn’t have any sort of cognitive delay before the age of three is astonishing. These children begin their childhood with the “normal IQ.” Aspergers children tend to have poor social skills and have very few friends. An intriguing and unexpected fact is that they have been known to be clumsy and awkward. Hand and eye coordination isn’t a strong point for them but they do no have to have every symptom to be diagnosed. In a website named "NAMI," many side effects and symptoms are stated. One sided conversations are common especially when it is about something the child is interested in. Difficulty in managing stress and having possible meltdowns is also a symptom. National Alliance in Mental Illness can be a great read for a better understanding before heading to a doctor for possible diagnosis!

What makes this response dangerous is that some parts of it are true (or at least can be true of some people on the spectrum). However, there are some issues that are glaring to anyone who knows better.

The idea that Autism is a disorder that results in low IQ is outdated and based on the results of tests given in ways that some of us can't handle. Autism is in large part a communication disorder. One of the biggest common issues is our difficulty communicating with neurotypicals.

It's kind of like an American visiting Australia. Technically, they speak the same language, but the dialects are so different, that understanding is not only not guaranteed, but the chance for misunderstanding is quite high.

So, you can be the smartest person in the world, but if you can't communicate it, then others won't be able to see that.

That's what researchers have slowly been realizing, thankfully. Even those who are "low functioning" are typically of average intelligence and show similar ranges of intellect as any other population. It was the tests that were failing to allow them to communicate that.

Additionally, one of the hallmarks of Asperger's compared to classic Autism is that things like speech delays are not typical. There is also quite a bit of crossover between Asperger's and gifted.

That said, regarding the original questions: Asperger's is a syndrome, which by definition means that there is a list of symptoms that are common among those with the syndrome, but a given individual will have only some of the symptoms, and the severity will vary, as well.

Technically speaking, the symptoms that one has are there all the time, but because many are related to communication, we can often hide them to a point. For example, small talk doesn't make sense to most of us and doesn't come easy, but through practice, some of us can engage in it for a time. You've seen this behavior with your son and eye contact. For many of us, eye contact is another thing that doesn't come naturally and makes us uncomfortable, but with practice, some of us can do it for short periods of time, or behave in ways that make our lack of eye contact less apparent.

As for friends, friendships in school aren't uncommon, but they might seem shallow or otherwise unusual to the onlooker, because they often revolve around a shared interest and little else. As we reach adulthood, friends become harder to come by, but still not impossible. The difficulty can also be compounded if we've been bullied and/or betrayed in the past. I've found that interest groups help open the door to at least casual friendships, so things like meetup.com are quite valuable.

That said, Asperger's isn't something that needs cured, and it's not the end of the world of he does get diagnosed. What it does mean is that he would do well having someone he can trust to help him understand the nuances of social expectations, and someone with the patience and awareness to realize that what's extraordinarily obvious to most people may not be to him, even if he's smart enough to get into Mensa.

 

[Loomis]

I think I have met only one person in my entire life who was not mentally ill. The truth is nearly 100% of humans have "issues." Social norms determine which aberrant behaviors are less problematic and therefore deemed acceptable. We tolerate psychopathic CEOs and intensely greedy Wall Street traders but somehow these deviants are not considered mentally ill. I believe aspies, in spite of our difficulty with non-verbal communication, have better insight into healthy human behavior than normies.

 

[rollerskate]

Well that was my very first time seeing people argue on here... I can't help but laugh right now... It was amazingly like watching a sparring match between two different versions of myself... I kept expecting it to explode out of hand but it never did... You two just kept batting the ball back and forth over the net coolly. :-D Although I did notice that it probably could have kept going for weeks like that... LOL.

I keep liking this place more and more... I really enjoyed that intellectual match... So rare I get to see that online any more...

Anyhow, back to the OP...

Your child sounds very similar to how I was as a kid and my son also. I think the reason so many Aspies tend to have high IQs is probably the combination of heightened sensory awareness/sensitivities and the predisposition towards obsessive and narrowed interests/hobbies. I'm sure the common lack in "normal" social interaction helps as well.

No matter what diagnosis he's given though, just appreciate him for who he is. All of who he is. Don't categorize certain parts of him as "symptoms" of an "illness" but look at all of it as unique aspects of his personality that can be strengths or weaknesses depending on how he utilizes them. Then try to help him learn how to take advantage of as much of his traits as possible. That's the best advice I can offer any parent of a "special needs" child. Just think of them as being "normal" with their own unique quirks they must grow to figure out just like anyone else.

It sounds like he has a great start already by having a social group that accepts and "gets" him. That will help TONS. A lot of us have not been that lucky and this forum serves as our special social playground.

I wish you all the best, and welcome to the forum. Hopefully you won't find our massive OT railings too annoying and stick around. ;-)

 

[Carlos]

Hi Jen,

I was diagnosed Aspergers later in life (the diagnosis did not exist when I was a kid), and I do know its efrfects were very pronounced in me during my childhood. So the best I can do is answer from my own experience as a child. Still there will be no substitute for your getting a formal evaluation from a professional who specializes in this field; that will tell you more than our comments from a distance.

As others have said, not all Aspies have all the symptoms. But I definitely had difficulty making friends. Here is me in comparison to your son:

"My son has friends but most of the time they are very similar in what they like to do like video games, dinosaur facts, scientific talk, football, or wrestling. When I ask any questions about his friends he doesn't know unless they have volunteered the Information. He doesn't ask them about their lives."

Pretty much true of me. I had few friends, but they all tended to be the "weird" kids, the ones nobody else played with.

"He makes eye contact sometimes and other times I request it and no matter how hard he tries his eyes can not stay focused on my eyes for more then a few seconds." Definitely true of me. I am not comfortable with prolonged eye contact.

"He can not ride a bike, tie his shoes, draw well, and his handwriting is very poor." All true of me except I did learn to tie my shoes. I tried to learn how to ride a bike and never succeeded.

"He can have conversations with other children but he tends to interrupt, change topics, or talk over others." I really didn't have a lot of conversations with other children. I preferred to play by myself. It also took me years before I learned how to listen to others (but I figured that was true of everyone).

"He has had really bad temper tantrums but they are not very often." Hey, I still have them (but hopefully less often than before). They are called "meltdowns." They are responses to sensory overload. Loud noises or abrupt rude behavior can send me into a screaming fit. Even as an adult. I do work on controlling it though. Still, not unusual in Aspergers.

I have no idea whether this helps at all, and it is certainly not a diagnosis of your son. But I urge you to have him checked out by a qualified specialist. If indeed he does have this condition he is luckier than I was, because today more understanding and support services are available.

Good luck!