Complicated friendship with someone on the spectrum - Help!

[AO1501]

I agree with you. He is the only person I have really ever met in all of my years with AS, so sometimes his coldness can be very hurtful, to be honest. This also makes our friendship strained at times. No, the sad part is that he won't even lose a night's rest whereas I will cry for weeks and then hopefully move on. Honestly, I wish that we would have remained ONLY good friends, like a big sister or just an older friend. These feelings of love and a sexual connection had to creep in and mess it all up. Now I have to lose a really special person to spare my own feelings and his feelings of frustration too. This is going to be a huge loss. My father is dying, I live alone and he is one of my only friends. I can only connect with people who are on the spectrum as I enjoy their honesty and intelligence. I don't see this much with NT's. I would say I may be on the spectrum myself, but as an empath, I really related to people with AS. I find most NT's to be dishonest and confusing. The only part I don't like is their coldness. I hope I am making sense. Thanks.

Oh yes, you are making sense. In the time I have been active on this site, I can't count the number of times I have read posts, in threads like this, where an NT person has described relationship difficulties with an Aspie that invariably seem to include a lack of emotional feedback and validation, the appearance of little or no interest, a difficult distance and coldness, yet also some strong and positive characteristics that make is as equally hard to let go as it feels necessary to do so.

There isn't a simple answer to this, as much as we tend to offer it. Ultimately though, the only best choice is to do what is right for your own best interest, not in the short term, but the long.

In a situation such as the one you describe, you could make a relationship work if you really want to and are prepared to work really hard at it, but you'd have to do that all the while believing that your partner doesn't really care much, doesn't seem interested in making any effort himself, and that you may well be just a stop-gap until someone more his age, with less of your problems comes along and pulls his attention away from you.

It wouldn't make any difference if your perceptions were accurate or not, because you would simply not know if you were on solid ground, or on the edge, and more than likely, if there were signs of how much you mattered to him, you wouldn't realize that is what they are, so you wouldn't read them as such.

All you can do here is take control of your choices and do the best you can for yourself, while also reminding yourself that it doesn't matter in the slightest how he reacts or will feel about it. It has to be about you.

As to the future - I'd agree with you that many NTs are problematic in a whole variety of ways, and that Aspies have qualities that have enormous potential to partners (and others). But calling an end to your friendship with this one, doesn't prevent you from subsequently finding another person who fulfills a better and more complete range of your needs, while sticking with this one could damage your longer-term interests in ways that could preclude better choices in the future.

In the meantime, stick around the forum here and find out as much as you can about us and how we are different, how our neurology makes us, and then perhaps you'll be better able to understand those AS people you seem drawn to. That seems likely to be to their benefit, and quite possibly to yours too.

 

[jamie5136]

Oh yes, you are making sense. In the time I have been active on this site, I can't count the number of times I have read posts, in threads like this, where an NT person has described relationship difficulties with an Aspie that invariably seem to include a lack of emotional feedback and validation, the appearance of little or no interest, a difficult distance and coldness, yet also some strong and positive characteristics that make is as equally hard to let go as it feels necessary to do so.

There isn't a simple answer to this, as much as we tend to offer it. Ultimately though, the only best choice is to do what is right for your own best interest, not in the short term, but the long.

In a situation such as the one you describe, you could make a relationship work if you really want to and are prepared to work really hard at it, but you'd have to do that all the while believing that your partner doesn't really care much, doesn't seem interested in making any effort himself, and that you may well be just a stop-gap until someone more his age, with less of your problems comes along and pulls his attention away from you.

It wouldn't make any difference if your perceptions were accurate or not, because you would simply not know if you were on solid ground, or on the edge, and more than likely, if there were signs of how much you mattered to him, you wouldn't realize that is what they are, so you wouldn't read them as such.

All you can do here is take control of your choices and do the best you can for yourself, while also reminding yourself that it doesn't matter in the slightest how he reacts or will feel about it. It has to be about you.

As to the future - I'd agree with you that many NTs are problematic in a whole variety of ways, and that Aspies have qualities that have enormous potential to partners (and others). But calling an end to your friendship with this one, doesn't prevent you from subsequently finding another person who fulfills a better and more complete range of your needs, while sticking with this one could damage your longer-term interests in ways that could preclude better choices in the future.

In the meantime, stick around the forum here and find out as much as you can about us and how we are different, how our neurology makes us, and then perhaps you'll be better able to understand those AS people you seem drawn to. That seems likely to be to their benefit, and quite possibly to yours too.

I think if we were JUST friends, I'd not feel like a stop gap, and that is exactly how I feel now. I have been there for him 100% over a period of 2+ years, but I know when he goes back to school, I will be a distant memory. Is this normal for people with AS? Would he even remember me? Hmmm. I was with a guy for 10 years, have known him for 30. I'm quite sure he is on the spectrum, yet undiagnosed. I am simply drawn to it. People make fun of me for it, but there must be a reason I like people with AS. And, yes, NT's present with HUGE problems, especially male NT's. And, yes, staying around with this one could ruin my potential. I'm not really looking at this point, but my love for him does prevent me from even considering someone else. I'd love to stick around, but I came here to get the viewpoint from people with AS. You should hear what my NT friends say... "He's just using you, he's an asshole with no emotions, he's a robot and/or calculator, etc." It's really of zero help. I'm glad I came here to get clarification. I am not even sure it's ok for an NT to lurk around an AS site. Is it?

 

[MrSpock]

I am not even sure it's ok for an NT to lurk around an AS site. Is it?

Yes, you're not the only one, you're most welcome both as a fellow human being who needs support, and as a different point of view (the rest of the world's point of view) when you choose to share. We need to know about that point of view, and so few NTs are sufficiently familiar with our thinking to express that point of view in a useful way. I, and probably others, would value another NTs insight on many topics.

The only part I don't like is their coldness.

...more than likely, if there were signs of how much you mattered to him, you wouldn't realize that is what they are, so you wouldn't read them as such.

He's young, and probably has little experience failing to show these signs and suffering the consequences. He may not be aware that it's a problem yet, or if he is, of the severity, but this site is full of people who take it as a given. He may well be relatively unemotional, but I assure you that many of us are in fact more emotional and empathic than NTs are. We have a surface incompatibility which prevents normal communication of these things without first working to establish a communication system that is not needed in NT/NT relationships as these things are communicated by different means.

NTs usually seem to communicate about emotions and relationships using a lot of hints and non-verbal means to get their feelings across, and these are my weak points (they're common weak points for those on the spectrum). If you plan to pursue aspies as your preference, I suggest that this is a very important area to gain knowledge and skill in. You should resist the urge to 'interpret' what we say, forget accompanying body language and circumstances, pretend that our words appear as a text message without context and if 'interpretation' is required, use a dictionary. I wonder if you have not 'interpreted' something from the following passage, but I don't know and am not accusing, rather I'm wondering if thinking about it would be productive IF you have done that...

I asked him if ending this whole thing is ok.. he said it would suck, but he would move on with life. So, this told me it needed to end.

If you had not included "So, this told me" I would not bring it up. If you told me that you would punch me in the head I might say that that would suck, but I would continue with my life. In no way is this a suggestion that you should punch me in the head. If you got "this needs to end" out of "it will suck but I will continue to live" I would be scared to say much of anything to you for fear of what you might interpret it as... clearly not what he said. Again, I am making some assumptions, and they may be wrong... I would not be trying to interpret meaning in a message from an aspie in this way, and would not myself have constructed such a passage.

Trying to be helpful, not negative. Some facial expression...

 

[jamie5136]

Yes, you're not the only one, you're most welcome both as a fellow human being who needs support, and as a different point of view (the rest of the world's point of view) when you choose to share. We need to know about that point of view, and so few NTs are sufficiently familiar with our thinking to express that point of view in a useful way. I, and probably others, would value another NTs insight on many topics.

Am I doing this right? I don't know how to put a quote w/in a message. Anyway, I care about him dearly, which is why I cam here for answers from others on the spectrum. I am not sure if there are questions for us NT's, but I'd be more than happy to offer up my opinion on any matter. We are not all the same.

jamie5136 said: ↑

The only part I don't like is their coldness.


AO1501 said: ↑
...more than likely, if there were signs of how much you mattered to him, you wouldn't realize that is what they are, so you wouldn't read them as such.
He's young, and probably has little experience failing to show these signs and suffering the consequences. He may not be aware that it's a problem yet, or if he is, of the severity, but this site is full of people who take it as a given. He may well be relatively unemotional, but I assure you that many of us are in fact more emotional and empathic than NTs are. We have a surface incompatibility which prevents normal communication of these things without first working to establish a communication system that is not needed in NT/NT relationships as these things are communicated by different means.

I don't want to expose too much of his personal life, but even at 22, he has had some experience with some severe depression that resulted in some serious issues. He has resolved these now, but even when his first gf broke it off with him, he was unable to handle these emotions. I hope I'm not being too obtuse. So, yes, he is young, but I think he has a taste of consequence. With me, I don't think he will have the same feelings of loss, which saddens me I think. Or, maybe I'm assuming. Because he does not share much, I'll never know.

NTs usually seem to communicate about emotions and relationships using a lot of hints and non-verbal means to get their feelings across, and these are my weak points (they're common weak points for those on the spectrum). If you plan to pursue aspies as your preference, I suggest that this is a very important area to gain knowledge and skill in. You should resist the urge to 'interpret' what we say, forget accompanying body language and circumstances, pretend that our words appear as a text message without context and if 'interpretation' is required, use a dictionary. I wonder if you have not 'interpreted' something from the following passage, but I don't know and am not accusing, rather I'm wondering if thinking about it would be productive IF you have done that...

I think about things all the time, ask questions, ask for clarifications, etc. I do my best to try to understand. I don't always like the answer, but I try.

jamie5136 said: ↑

I asked him if ending this whole thing is ok.. he said it would suck, but he would move on with life. So, this told me it needed to end.

If you had not included "So, this told me" I would not bring it up. If you told me that you would punch me in the head I might say that that would suck, but I would continue with my life. In no way is this a suggestion that you should punch me in the head. If you got "this needs to end" out of "it will suck but I will continue to live" I would be scared to say much of anything to you for fear of what you might interpret it as... clearly not what he said. Again, I am making some assumptions, and they may be wrong... I would not be trying to interpret meaning in a message from an aspie in this way, and would not myself have constructed such a passage.

Yes, that is what I got out of him saying that.. he's a super logical one. I believe what he says. I believe he would not like me not being around, but that he would move on. I firmly believe this. He has dozens of friends, a great family and is going back to school, so I do believe this. I'm sure all aspies are not the same. At the end of the day, this whole thing is making me cry and very sad. If he knew I was even here asking this, he might think I'm going overboard... although i think it shows I really, really care. Am I wrong?

 

[tree]

Am I doing this right? I don't know how to put a quote w/in a message.

You could Copy & Paste.

Or you could use the Quote button.
(Click 'Quote', then click the 'Insert Quote' that will appear.)

 

[AO1501]

....Am I wrong?

I think it would be fair to say that you have a bit to learn!

Mr. Spock is exactly right regarding interpreting he said it would suck, but he would move on with life, as: this told me it needed to end. That isn't what he said at all, and if there is one thing you can reasonably safely assume, it is that absent solid proof to the contrary, we tend very distinctly towards saying what we actually mean. While there is a bit of a possibility he meant what you interpret him to have said, it is not at all likely. In fact, it would help you, I think, to understand that it is really very damaging to assume that you know what he means, and apply that in place of what he actually did mean.

As I wrote in another thread recently, in my own relationship with an NT:
For me, the exasperation was that my ex would listen to what I said, and interpret my words into what she thought I meant, or possibly what she wanted me to have meant, and then throw that interpretation back at me whenever she wanted to make a point, ignoring my remonstration that what she attributed to me was not what I said.

It totally stripped me of my voice in the relationship, and meant that whenever I did have something to say, I either kept it to myself, or had to work out how to phrase it so that she would somehow get the meaning right. In the first instance my silence on many topics damaged the relationship, and in the second... well, that really didn't work anyway.

Ultimately, this was a large part of why the relationship failed, and that it did not disappoint me when it did.

It has nothing to do with his family or friends, or whether he is going back to college or not. It is about what he actually says. The words. If you insist on interpreting into what you believe him to mean, you would be better to stay well clear of people on the spectrum because for many, if not most, that would be toxic to us.

Regardless, all that we can do is to try and help you understand your 22 year-old a bit better in order that you can make a better-informed decision about moving forward. Coming here and asking for our assistance was quite a courageous thing to do, but nothing like the courage it could take to put aside your NT reactions and assumptions, and adjust how you think based on what you can learn from us here.

Give it a try. Spend a couple of hours reading through the 'Love, Relationships and Dating' section at https://www.autismforums.com/forums/love-relationships-and-dating.32/ and you'll discover that we are pretty consistent with our advice - put simply, that we are not unemotional and cold, that we are typically logical and analytical, and that the words we use are what we mean. Also that when you expect us to read between the lines in what you say, we are likely to fail, and then you'll misinterpret the result as us lacking care, concern or a depth of connection.

We can't win, unless you listen to what we say and believe in that, or at the very least, ask what we mean if you feel you may need clarification.

 

[pamelaperejil]

It is quite co-dependent and does not make me feel good on any level.

In that case, it's probably better that you end it, eh?

 

[MrSpock]

So, yes, he is young, but I think he has a taste of consequence

I think you may have missed my point, which was specifically about him not realizing that he fails to show signs that would be apparent in NT men, and that women will interpret the lack of these signs as a lack of interest, passion etc. If he hasn't been warned of this (or maybe even if he has) he may go through many attempts at relationships which fail because of this without either person realizing what has happened... or not happened. I was NOT trying to say that he has no idea that consequences follow actions. If you think that I've said something that silly you really ought to wonder if you've missed what I was trying to say, read it again and/or ask.

Because he does not share much, I'll never know.

Again, I can't speak on his behalf, but if it were me... I am willing to share, but I seem to have different ideas of what I want to share than most people seem to. You may not be aware when he is trying to share something important to him, he may think that it's personal when you don't, and vice versa. I regard my ethical philosophy to be a much more important part of who I am than what happened one day when I was nine years old, it's a different style of sharing. He may share more than you appreciate, he may not know what you regard as 'sharing'. Unless you have asked him specifically what you want to know and he's refused to tell you, you should not assume that he won't share. Try asking, not 'share with me', if you want to know what he did during summer vacation in 2010 ask him 'what did you do during summer vacation in 2010'. I would tell you. I'm not likely to tell you about that otherwise, it's not important to me.

"If you got "this needs to end" out of "it will suck but I will continue to live""

Yes, that is what I got out of him saying that.. ...I believe what he says.

You contradict yourself here. Either you believe "this needs to end" or you believe "it will suck but I will continue to live". Those are two different things. He very, very likely meant "it will suck but I will continue to live", if you hear "this needs to end" you have, as @AO1501 so eloquently put it, stripped him of his voice in the relationship. You need to be able to receive the message he sends, and he's almost certainly taken the care to put that message into words he means literally. It really could not be easier to understand, but this is a pattern we see over and over again. If he didn't say "this needs to end" he almost certainly did NOT mean "this needs to end".

 

[jamie5136]

I think it would be fair to say that you have a bit to learn!

Mr. Spock is exactly right regarding interpreting he said it would suck, but he would move on with life, as: this told me it needed to end. That isn't what he said at all, and if there is one thing you can reasonably safely assume, it is that absent solid proof to the contrary, we tend very distinctly towards saying what we actually mean. While there is a bit of a possibility he meant what you interpret him to have said, it is not at all likely. In fact, it would help you, I think, to understand that it is really very damaging to assume that you know what he means, and apply that in place of what he actually did mean.

As I wrote in another thread recently, in my own relationship with an NT:
For me, the exasperation was that my ex would listen to what I said, and interpret my words into what she thought I meant, or possibly what she wanted me to have meant, and then throw that interpretation back at me whenever she wanted to make a point, ignoring my remonstration that what she attributed to me was not what I said.

It totally stripped me of my voice in the relationship, and meant that whenever I did have something to say, I either kept it to myself, or had to work out how to phrase it so that she would somehow get the meaning right. In the first instance my silence on many topics damaged the relationship, and in the second... well, that really didn't work anyway.

Ultimately, this was a large part of why the relationship failed, and that it did not disappoint me when it did.

It has nothing to do with his family or friends, or whether he is going back to college or not. It is about what he actually says. The words. If you insist on interpreting into what you believe him to mean, you would be better to stay well clear of people on the spectrum because for many, if not most, that would be toxic to us.

Regardless, all that we can do is to try and help you understand your 22 year-old a bit better in order that you can make a better-informed decision about moving forward. Coming here and asking for our assistance was quite a courageous thing to do, but nothing like the courage it could take to put aside your NT reactions and assumptions, and adjust how you think based on what you can learn from us here.

Give it a try. Spend a couple of hours reading through the 'Love, Relationships and Dating' section at https://www.autismforums.com/forums/love-relationships-and-dating.32/ and you'll discover that we are pretty consistent with our advice - put simply, that we are not unemotional and cold, that we are typically logical and analytical, and that the words we use are what we mean. Also that when you expect us to read between the lines in what you say, we are likely to fail, and then you'll misinterpret the result as us lacking care, concern or a depth of connection.

We can't win, unless you listen to what we say and believe in that, or at the very least, ask what we mean if you feel you may need clarification.

It's all fairly moot. I can't be friends with someone who I love and who I felt semi lead me on and on top of that, it was always fairly one-sided. I am already in pain and disabled and now I am grieving over this loss. I told him I could not be friends at this time, if ever. It's simply too painful.

 

[jamie5136]

In that case, it's probably better that you end it, eh?

I did and in pain now.

 

[AO1501]

It's all fairly moot. I can't be friends with someone who I love and who I felt semi lead me on and on top of that, it was always fairly one-sided. I am already in pain and disabled and now I am grieving over this loss. I told him I could not be friends at this time, if ever. It's simply too painful.

It may be moot in relation to this person, and I am sorry that it hurts and that there is pain to endure as you apply your decision and then look ahead without him in your life. That is understandable and unequivocal. But there are lessons to be learned from this about interacting with other people on the spectrum in the future, even if you can't see that future at all right now.

Much that has been said in this thread could help you greatly then, even if not now.

In the meantime, good luck, and I hope you are able to mend.

 

[pamelaperejil]

I did and in pain now.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[jamie5136]

Sorry to hear that.

Thank u.

 

[jamie5136]

It may be moot in relation to this person, and I am sorry that it hurts and that there is pain to endure as you apply your decision and then look ahead without him in your life. That is understandable and unequivocal. But there are lessons to be learned from this about interacting with other people on the spectrum in the future, even if you can't see that future at all right now.

IN REALITY, IN LOOKING BACK AT IT, I SHOULD HAVE NEVER FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A 22 YO IN OHIO AT MY AGE. BUT, HE WAS SO IRRESISTIBLE AS MOST PEOPLE ON THE AS ARE. HE IS BEING SO DRY AND COLD NOW, STILL WANTING TO BE FRIENDS. THIS IS TOO HARD FOR ME. I DON'T PLAN ON BEING WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IF THAT EVER DOES OCCUR, I WILL CERTAINLY CONSULT THIS SITE. BUT, MY THOUGHT IS TO NOT ACCEPT SOMEONE ON THE SCALE AGAIN AS I AM SIMPLY TOO EMOTIONAL AND A HYPER NT. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS MAKES SENSE. THIS MAY SEEM HARSH OR CRUEL, BUT IT'S HOW I FEEL NOW.

Much that has been said in this thread could help you greatly then, even if not now.

In the meantime, good luck, and I hope you are able to mend.

 

[AO1501]

IN REALITY, IN LOOKING BACK AT IT, I SHOULD HAVE NEVER FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A 22 YO IN OHIO AT MY AGE. BUT, HE WAS SO IRRESISTIBLE AS MOST PEOPLE ON THE AS ARE. HE IS BEING SO DRY AND COLD NOW, STILL WANTING TO BE FRIENDS. THIS IS TOO HARD FOR ME. I DON'T PLAN ON BEING WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IF THAT EVER DOES OCCUR, I WILL CERTAINLY CONSULT THIS SITE. BUT, MY THOUGHT IS TO NOT ACCEPT SOMEONE ON THE SCALE AGAIN AS I AM SIMPLY TOO EMOTIONAL AND A HYPER NT. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS MAKES SENSE. THIS MAY SEEM HARSH OR CRUEL, BUT IT'S HOW I FEEL NOW.

This is not harsh or cruel - it's very human, and in that context it makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure anyone really has control over who they fall in love with, and that's as true for those on the spectrum as it is for anyone else. Hence if you have been drawn to people on the spectrum, it seems likely you will be again in the future. Relationships with us are not easy - that much you know - but they certainly can be made to work, and can be very successful...with the right one. This was clearly not the right one, and I am sorry about that.

I hope that in time we will see you back looking for a little guidance again. Best wishes.

 

[Mr Allen]

With due respect @jamie5136 I think the boundaries of your friendship are stretching, at 52 you're possibly too old to be anything other than a friend to the guy, he's 22, you're nearly 30 years his senior, old enough to be his Mother.

Relationships between older women and younger guys rarely work out for the best IMHO.