Connection with Antisocial Disorders

[Agnes]

Have you ever come across people displaying psychopathic traits or other signs of antisocial behavior? Did you experience a sense of recognition or connection, as if you were meeting someone similar to yourself? What was your personal experience in such situations?

 

[TBRS1]

Have you ever come across people displaying psychopathic traits or other signs of antisocial behavior? Did you experience a sense of recognition or connection, as if you were meeting someone similar to yourself? What was your personal experience in such situations?

No.

People who display anger or act excessively rude in public tend to scare me. Also, people who backstab or manipulate people.

I'm more likely to feel a connection to the one being hurt.

 

[Agnes]

No.

People who display anger or act excessively rude in public tend to scare me. Also, people who backstab or manipulate people.

I'm more likely to feel a connection to the one being hurt.

As a rule, such behavior is not always characteristic of highly functional individuals; outwardly, they may demonstrate a high degree of politeness. My question is based on the fact that both of the mentioned disorders are considered neurodivergences, and their carriers are typically marked by low empathy and high intelligence.

 

[the_tortoise]

Did you experience a sense of recognition or connection, as if you were meeting someone similar to yourself? What was your personal experience in such situations?

No....

People who display anger or act excessively rude in public tend to scare me.

I dont see anger as automatically "antisocial" or "psychopathic" -- public or not....it depends on context.

If someone is raging at another person who had done nothing or is afraid of them, I would also be afraid of the person raging and see them as dangerous. And not understand why they were being so cruel and vicious.

But I have seen people fight back against vicious albeit quietish (not quiet enough that bystanders including myself couldnt hear it or see it) abuse with rage after trying to tolerate it...I am not afraid of those people. I dont condone their responses but I feel
bad for them...I witnessed lots of instances of "the special kid" being mercilessly bullied until they couldnt take anymore and fought back or melted down -- the most sickening ones were when it was clearly deliberate provocation and the bullies would get away with their quiet abuse no matter how many witnesses vouched for the bullied kid with no ability yo be wuietly and manipulatively cruel (no this was not me - I was big enough and also slow-processing enough and pacifist enough none of the other kids whi bullied me at schiol managed to provoke me to violence, ever...when I would walk away I would actually get bullied even worse by bystanders too ....it was weird)

I'm also not afraid of people who are clearly having meltdowns directed at themselves or at nobody.

But people who are violent and/or cruel to control other people? No I dont relate.

 

[Matthias]

I think you'd find that people who exhibit psychopathic traits and antisocial behavior were bullied or abused when they were younger, which led to negative perceptions and a lack of empathy for others. If bad things happened to you, I can see how you would relate to them.

 

[Agnes]

I think you'd find that people who exhibit psychopathic traits and antisocial behavior were bullied or abused when they were younger, which led to negative perceptions and a lack of empathy for others. If bad things happened to you, I can see how you would relate to them.

No, this is primarily an innate condition; a normal person who was subjected to abuse in childhood often develops social phobia and becomes withdrawn.

 

[the_tortoise]

No, this is primarily an innate condition; a normal person who was subjected to abuse in childhood often develops social phobia and becomes withdrawn.

There are a wide varieties of ways people respond to abuse.

The concept of "intergenerational trauma" exists for a reason.

You seem like a troll so I am not responding anymore but I am sure others will.

 

[Agnes]

You could have kept silent, considering that my message was intended for someone else

 

[Matthias]

No, this is primarily an innate condition; a normal person who was subjected to abuse in childhood often develops social phobia and becomes withdrawn.

Science clearly shows that childhood maltreatment, abuse, and trauma contribute to antisocial personality disorder. It's not an innate condition.

Here's an example from one of many papers you can find on Science Direct and other academic journals:

The etiology of antisocial personality disorder: The differential roles of adverse childhood experiences and childhood psychopathology​

Using prospective longitudinal data, Fergusson, Boden, and Horwood [33] examined the association between childhood sexual abuse, childhood physical abuse, and ASPD and found that the prevalence of ASPD at ages 18–21 and 21–25 was two to four times greater among those that had been sexually abused compared to those who had not. Similarly, those who experienced regular physical abuse or severe physical abuse had ASPD at a prevalence that was two to seven times higher than those who were not physically abused.

 

[Agnes]

Science clearly shows that childhood maltreatment, abuse, and trauma contribute to antisocial personality disorder. It's not an innate condition.

Here's an example from one of many papers you can find on Science Direct and other academic journals:

The etiology of antisocial personality disorder: The differential roles of adverse childhood experiences and childhood psychopathology​

Using prospective longitudinal data, Fergusson, Boden, and Horwood [33] examined the association between childhood sexual abuse, childhood physical abuse, and ASPD and found that the prevalence of ASPD at ages 18–21 and 21–25 was two to four times greater among those that had been sexually abused compared to those who had not. Similarly, those who experienced regular physical abuse or severe physical abuse had ASPD at a prevalence that was two to seven times higher than those who were not physically abused.

Twin and family studies indicate that the heritability of antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) ranges from 40% to 70%. Therefore, it cannot be claimed that ASPD is determined exclusively by genetics, nor can its occurrence be attributed solely to upbringing factors

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Have you ever come across people displaying psychopathic traits or other signs of antisocial behavior? Did you experience a sense of recognition or connection, as if you were meeting someone similar to yourself? What was your personal experience in such situations?

The problem I experience is that I really am blind to "intent" and "hidden meaning". It really puts me in a disadvantaged position.

It's not the individuals who are a bundle of emotional chaos... I know to steer clear of them. It's the friendly types, the ones that I think are simply friendly souls... not knowing they've picked me out of the crowd to be their next target of whatever twisted crap is brewing in their head. Usually, though, I have relied upon others to point out these things... usually in the form of a random conversation I've walked into as they are talking about this other person. In my mind I am thinking, "Wait... what?!" "I didn't catch any of that from them." So far, nothing has ever come of it, per se, but I apparently have a difficult time with identifying some of these individuals.

I often rely upon my inner circle of people to do some of the "weeding out" for me.

There have been times when I can watch a YouTube video of how to identify these individuals... and I think I do OK in that scenario. I can go on and on about identifying narcissistic, sociopathic, and psychopathic traits... but in real life... not so much.

 

[Agnes]

There have been times when I can watch a YouTube video of how to identify these individuals... and I think I do OK in that scenario.

Another method is watching films and interviews with such people. I have developed certain impressions that I subconsciously associate with psychopathic tendencies. In particular, extraversion, sociability, a constant playful mood often accompanied by a loud, almost announcer-like manner of speaking, as well as prominent facial features

 

[Matthias]

Twin and family studies indicate that the heritability of antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) ranges from 40% to 70%.

Twin studies prove ASPD is not innate. If it were a genetic condition, there would be a 100% concordance rate in identical twins.

Therefore, it cannot be claimed that ASPD is determined exclusively by genetics, nor can its occurrence be attributed solely to upbringing factors

Genetics influences the risk of nearly every physical and mental health conditions despite only causing around 1% of them. The environment often plays a large role, with genes playing a lesser, secondary role with each gene slightly contributing to risk in a variety of ways. For example, if genes caused a baby to be more sensitive, that baby might cry and scream more often, which might stress out his parents and affect their ability to sleep, resulting in more negative interactions that wouldn't have occurred if the baby was less sensitive. If this happened in ASPD, the cause could be the upbringing, with genes merely increasing the likelihood of a more negative upbringing.

 

[Agnes]

Twin studies prove ASPD is not innate. If it were a genetic condition, there would be a 100% concordance rate in identical twins.

I don’t understand why you are trying to justify them. History shows that many criminals with sadistic tendencies grew up in families far from dysfunctional and had no obvious psychological traumas. Your eagerness to defend such people suggests hidden personal reasons or perhaps complexes

 

[Matthias]

I don’t understand why you are trying to justify them. History shows that many criminals with sadistic tendencies grew up in families far from dysfunctional and had no obvious psychological traumas. Your eagerness to defend such people suggests hidden personal reasons or perhaps complexes

I have no idea how you interpreted my response as justifying criminals that you believe are born with sadistic tendencies. I simply posted the science, which shows that ASPD is not genetic and that upbringing plays a major role. Psychological traumas aren't always obvious to outsiders and dysfunctional families sometimes hide it well (or don't even realize how dysfunctional they are). For someone who appears to reject science, your accusation of me having hidden personal reasoning is interesting.

 

[UFO]

History shows that many criminals with sadistic tendencies grew up in families far from dysfunctional and had no obvious psychological traumas.

Pay attention to the rest of his message. He just tried to explain to you how the mechanism works without dysfunctional family or obvious psychological traumas.

And about your original question: There was a local thug at my neighborhood and school when I was at my mid-teens. I don't know if he was a antisocial personality on his own, or if his drug abuse made him act like psycho. I don't know about his family, I don't remember hearing any gossip about them, only about him. He couldn't care less of about other people's suffering or consequences of his actions, he actually thought crying as weakness, and making other people to cry as strength and sign of superiority over weaker people. He eventually ended up to prison for years because of some act of violence. He didn't have friends, more like associates, who either feared him or were wary of him. The reason he didn't bully me in a significant degree was that I had a childhood friend at a mall gang he used hang with. That and the fact that I had boring reactions to bullying. While I have less than average need for social acceptance, just like him, I disliked him and don't feel to be anything like him.

 

[Agnes]

Psychological traumas

A psyche can be broken by almost anything. In essence, it is impossible to fully avoid traumatizing a fragile child’s mind.

 

[Matthias]

A psyche can be broken by almost anything. In essence, it is impossible to fully avoid traumatizing a fragile child’s mind.

Parents are supposed to pay attention to their child's emotional state, help them understand their emotions, and respond in ways that resolve their distress and promote mental wellness. Not doing that is called emotional neglect, which can occur when parents have low emotional intelligence. Emotional neglect can lead to numerous mental/emotional problems, which therapists can treat by doing what their parents failed to do. Of course, sometimes, due to genetic influences that I explained earlier, even parents with average emotional intelligence may not be able to understand their children and adequately address their needs.

 

[Agnes]

Parents are supposed to pay attention to their child's emotional state, help them understand their emotions, and respond in ways that resolve their distress and promote mental wellness. Not doing that is called emotional neglect, which can occur when parents have low emotional intelligence. Emotional neglect can lead to numerous mental/emotional problems, which therapists can treat by doing what their parents failed to do. Of course, sometimes, due to genetic influences that I explained earlier, even parents with average emotional intelligence may not be able to understand their children and adequately address their needs.

I no longer have any desire to continue this discussion. Your arguments do not seem convincing to me. Many psychologists, and even people with psychopathic traits themselves (and I don’t necessarily mean maniacs), have emphasized in their accounts that they were born with these traits and did not experience any serious psychological traumas. I know quite a few people who seemed to have everything necessary for a happy life, yet they still turned out the way they are.

 

[Matthias]

I no longer have any desire to continue this discussion. Your arguments do not seem convincing to me. Many psychologists, and even people with psychopathic traits themselves (and I don’t necessarily mean maniacs), have emphasized in their accounts that they were born with these traits and did not experience any serious psychological traumas. I know quite a few people who seemed to have everything necessary for a happy life, yet they still turned out the way they are.

I posted and explained the science, not my own arguments. If science doesn't convince you, nothing will.

A few psychologists and individuals with psychopathic traits believing they were born that way isn't evidence as science shows that psychological problems often stem from experiences during the first 3 years of life when it is impossible for any of them to know what happened. Anyone who has had psychopathic traits for as long as they can remember may falsely believe they were born with them. Additionally, believing these traits are innate discounts and invalidates the experiences of individuals who worked hard to overcome their psychopathic traits.