Do you believe everything happens for a reason?

[Ronald Zeeman]

I've had two of my brothers die, one at 7 weeks of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, the other at 36 years old of colon cancer (leaving behind a beautiful wife and two little boys), I don't have contact with my mother, my father passed away a few years ago, and my two sisters, their kids, etc. I don't have contact with. It's just my wife, and I rarely have contact with my own children.

So, back to my my statements above:
"Now, if we are talking about behaviors of humans or animals, again, it seems like chaos and randomness, only because we generally have a poor understanding of what is going on inside of our brain, let alone another's. However, if we had some ability to fully understand the brain and monitor all the activity in ourselves and others, we could have some high predictability of behaviors and interactions. We simply don't have that ability right now."

We have a forum full of people, you, me, everyone here, that have a difficult time understanding ourselves and the people around us. It's not chaos and randomness, things happen for a reason. You can put blame on the autism, or your past childhood traumas, your health, your stress, something you said, so on and so forth,...and then add all of the other person's "baggage",...but likely, it was many "forces" at play that contributed to that seemingly "unique" situation or result. If you were to turn back the clock and relive those moments, knowing what you know now, the future may be different, but you still couldn't predict what that future may be or the correct pathway to achieve the future you wanted. However, it is not chaos and randomness.

If you have some understanding of parallel universes, and how a different action, sometime in the past, can dramatically change the outcome of the future, it really makes you think. Today is Groundhog Day in the US, a silly day in and of itself, but there is an old comedy movie called "Groundhog Day" in which the main character wakes up to the same day, every day, and he finally learns through trial and error how to take a crappy day and turn it into a great day by changing little things he does. Another movie, "The Butterfly Effect", takes on these same concepts of how one seemingly minor, benign action can have profound effects in the future.

You're on to something I'm starting to see this. Via my physics thread. everything makes sense. Feels like i'm the one eyed guy in the land of the blind.

 

[Aspychata]

I go back and forth on this. If we truly can see such as a seer, do you really want those answers or would you just prefer the randomness of life due to how overwhelming chaotic it is with so many people trying to imprint themselves on others. So l believe that there are patterns or like waves in the oceans that set off other random actions that keep all systems chaotic and ongoing, however it is amazing and comical when they all align to create a beneficial or a life-threatening outcome that suddenly snares you or anybody else. I feel like l walk a tightrope of randomness and chaos at times with the amount of accidents right on the main road l live next to. But l factor in a HS and a college, and about 5 retirement parks consisting of 250 elderly people, some overly medicated, and the amount of drug busts and DUI arrests, and 10 bar restaurants on my same street, and l think it's quite possible but hopefully not probable that l have a greater chance of being in a car crash. So l do watch what hours l leave when l leave the house to cut down on random chaos. So far l have seen a huge truck in a holding pond at my intersection, a fatality at my intersection from another crash. A dui accident. And l saw a cop car just covertly hiding and waiting for a bar patron to leave the restaurant just 5 mins away from me this week. When l first arrived in this state, l saw 5 car accidents in two months time. Now l feel like l am playing Russian roulette everytime l drive. I hope saying Russian roulette is PC. Lol

Yes, l forgot, a major freeway is right near me, with huge exits and on ramps on my street, so l prefer to not know all this, and just flip coin and decide whether to leave or not to run errands. Lol

I am jumping to another thought here, do you want to know when you will die? Or would you rather just think it will happen and when it does, l am ready?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I go back and forth on this. If we truly can see such as a seer, do you really want those answers or would you just prefer the randomness of life due to how overwhelming chaotic it is with so many people trying to imprint themselves on others. So l believe that there are patterns or like waves in the oceans that set off other random actions that keep all systems chaotic and ongoing, however it is amazing and comical when they all align to create a beneficial or a life-threatening outcome that suddenly snares you or anybody else. I feel like l walk a tightrope of randomness and chaos at times with the amount of accidents right on the main road l live next to. But l factor in a HS and a college, and about 5 retirement parks consisting of 250 elderly people, some overly medicated, and the amount of drug busts and DUI arrests, and 10 bar restaurants on my same street, and l think it's quite possible but hopefully not probable that l have a greater chance of being in a car crash. So l do watch what hours l leave when l leave the house to cut down on random chaos. So far l have seen a huge truck in a holding pond at my intersection, a fatality at my intersection from another crash. A dui accident. And l saw a cop car just covertly hiding and waiting for a bar patron to leave the restaurant just 5 mins away from me this week. When l first arrived in this state, l saw 5 car accidents in two months time. Now l feel like l am playing Russian roulette everytime l drive. I hope saying Russian roulette is PC. Lol

Yes, l forgot, a major freeway is right near me, with huge exits and on ramps on my street, so l prefer to not know all this, and just flip coin and decide whether to leave or not to run errands. Lol

Again, just because our tiny little brains cannot possibly hold all of the perspective, context, facts, and forces at play in real time, and we don't know what we don't know, it doesn't mean that things are chaotic. It's our incredibly slow processing speed and lack of knowledge that lends itself to the perception of chaos and randomness. To be blunt, human beings, as intelligent as we seem to think we can be, are WAY, WAY too slow and stupid to take in all that information and react to it. We would have to have a brain processing speed hundreds of times faster, have the knowledge of all the forces in the world, how they interact with each other, and even be clairvoyant enough to have some sense that these things were going on around us, and be able to read the minds of every person around us simultaneously. Not going to happen to any of us. Certainly, bad things happen to people for the simple reason that they could not predict and avoid.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Chaos, randomness free will only exist due to quantum mechanics. Two weeks ago, I got an epiphany. If there was an alternative universe. anti mater and time going backwards. Determinism would exist. got the idea from Richard Feynman explains a lot. Paul Dirac also hinted at this. Antimatter also take complex. math square root on negative out of the various equations which imply cycling.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Chaos, randomness free will only exist due to quantum mechanics. Two weeks ago, I got an epiphany. If there was an alternative universe. anti mater and time going backwards. Determinism would exist. got the idea from Richard Feynman explains a lot. Paul Dirac also hinted at this. Antimatter also take complex. math square root on negative out of the various equations which imply cycling.

At some level though, I am thinking that even within the context of quantum mechanics, our stupid brains may only be perceiving some of the behaviors as random and chaotic for the simple reason we haven't learned enough about it to predict it and use it. AI computers, some day, with enough knowledge and processing speed could probably be able to quantify, predict, and apply quantum mechanics in real world applications. We're just learning at this point.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

"The Law of Attraction explains that if we change our electromagnetic field (by changing our thoughts and emotions), then that will attract a new reality from the Quantum Field. The thought must match the feeling, and then we have to hold that state of being long enough for the manifestation to occur."

So, explain this "Quantum Field" without getting into Opra's and Chopra's verbal salad of magical thinking. Believe me, I'll understand, as I have had to calculate spacetime effects of protons circulating in a cyclotron in order to design target placement in the chamber. So explain how thought, which is mere ionic movement across a lipid bilayer, has anything to do with physical laws being invariant under Lorentz transformations. Non-Physicists contemplating the quantum level frequently descend into woo woo.

There is, of course, a fundamental basis (reason) for physical actions, but for human activity sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar.

 

[Aspychata]

Yes. I believe the random theory may not be to everyone's liking.

But l will plod along and say, l believe systems of governments, safety standards, religion, etc. exist only to help us deal with sheer randomness and the shallowness of life. Maybe a philosophy of nothingness complicated by randomness created systems that we now live our life with. No, l am not saying this is the answer, it's just my current perception. Because no matter how much we study things and label things, life continues on with no regards to you or me or systems. But it's fascinating to delve into and really it's open to anybody's interpretation. I will take that cigar now and hopefully won't burn down my house.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

At some level though, I am thinking that even within the context of quantum mechanics, our stupid brains may only be perceiving some of the behaviors as random and chaotic for the simple reason we haven't learned enough about it to predict it and use it. AI computers, some day, with enough knowledge and processing speed could probably be able to quantify, predict, and apply quantum mechanics in real world applications. We're just learning at this point.

over the years all physicists were told to shut up and calculate, one did not John BELL. Boy did he open up a can of worms. Just in the last year are we seeing the ramifications of this. The universe is not what it seems l occasionally. See hints of new physics all starts with no Such a thing as absolute length. locality does not exist.

 

[Aspychata]

Nihilism represents a philosophy of negation of all forms of aesthetician, it advocated utilitarianism and scientific rationalism. That all social problems can be solved by scientific truth. Somehow l just feel that my random life is wrought with emptiness but science keeps me alive and living with nothing. It feels ironic. So l can't feel that there are reasons for things happening, just a general malaise of randomness.

 

[Raggamuffin]

@Gerald Wilgus not overly keen on your tone, but read further into Dr Joe Dispenza and see that the old motto "mind over matter" is a reality. He has many case studies proving this to be the case. I'd recommend his book Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. At the very least - it's a different perspective on things, and you can always donate your copy to a friend or charity shop after you're done.

https://drjoedispenza.com/pages/scientific-research
Gabor Maté's latest book also shows how people through thought alone have cured themselves of incureable diseases. If mind wasn't able to affect matter - how would that be possible?

The Seth material goes a lot deeper than Gabor or Joe do, but judging by your response you'd probably call it "woo woo" and that's fine. We're all entitled to our beliefs, and those beliefs create your reality. And that can be taken as metaphorically or literally as you see fit.

As for your original request for me to explain quantum field. I can't. All I can provide is a 10 or 15 minute read from the Seth material regarding Framework 1 and 2 which you might find interesting. Or, you might call it "woo woo".

For Seth, Framework 1 is simply a term representing the everyday, linear, conscious "working reality" we take for granted, the one in which "time" and events automatically unfold in moment after undeniable moment. It's the milieu in which most of us unthinkingly live out our physical lives.

Beyond Framework 1, however, exists Framework 2, and it represents the great timeless or simultaneous spacious present that's so dearly a manifestation of All That Is. All of our dreams, plans, thoughts, actions, and choices live in Framework 2; all flow from Framework 2 into Framework 1 according to our beliefs.

http://globalholisticmotivators.blogspot.com/2017/02/framework-1-and-framework-2-by-seth.html
Ed

 

[Forest Cat]

Gabor Maté's latest book also shows how people through thought alone have cured themselves of incureable diseases. If mind wasn't able to affect matter - how would that be possible?

How do they prove that? I don't see a way to prove it. Someone is sick, they think hard about it and then they are not sick anymore, that doesn't mean getting better has anything to do with them thinking about it. Could be another reason. I think it's impossible to prove.

 

[Raggamuffin]

Not just sick - but terminally ill, and some refused any treatment whatsoever and the cancer disappeared. Easy to dismiss as hokum I'm sure.

To be honest it's not my task to try and convince you otherwise as you don't seem to see it as a possibility. I could get the books, go through the chapters, find the examples and type up long quotes. But you could just as easily call that "woo woo" or hogwash etc.

Read the books if you wish. If not, that's fine. The Way Towards Health would be the most obvious example of the Seth material to read if you wish to learn more about such things. As well as Gabor or Joe's books too.

Might seem like a tangent, and I can't post the picture as it's not PG-13 but Thich Quang Duc was a monk who self-immolated and burned to death without even uttering a sound whilst in a state of meditation. Again you could probably refute this being an example of mind over matter, and again - that's your choice.

But think about how most people react if they burn themselves on steam or the oven etc. Usually it's an immediate scream and swearing etc. Now think about someone who is doused in fuel, set on fire, burns to death, sat still in a state of meditation, and doesn't utter a sound.

Mind over matter.

It's also worth looking into the scientific research behind meditation. It makes for some fascinating reading, and once again - shows mind over matter.

Ed

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'm watching a U-Tube video the most brilliant scientist that no one believed. Ironic I'm always openminded.
The universe is not complicated. Much simpler than many were taught. Fortunately, I have followed physics. for close to sixty years watch weird theories like big bang develop and then get accepted and finally get taught when some very reputable guys get weird ideas I notice. either way follow the anomalies where is the antimatter what is dark matter. There may be a very simple answer. I think a I am getting glimpses of it.

 

[LadyS]

Mind over matter is very much a thing practiced in the East, which is still being "discovered" or dismissed in the West. As well as the biological advantages of certain herbal practices and remedies that are still being 'officially' researched as the social biases (i.e. it's all hoodoo) are slowly being challenged. But because there may not be extensive scientific studies on the subject doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible. As others have pointed out, there are still limitations we have to overcome as well.

Mind over matter? Core body temperature controlled by the brain

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

If I was brighter, I would have become a theoretical physicist in the 1980's thank GOD they killed the super collider.
ironic was there a feedback loop.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Not just sick - but terminally ill, and some refused any treatment whatsoever and the cancer disappeared. Easy to dismiss as hokum I'm sure.

To be honest it's not my task to try and convince you otherwise as you don't seem to see it as a possibility. I could get the books, go through the chapters, find the examples and type up long quotes. But you could just as easily call that "woo woo" or hogwash etc.

Read the books if you wish. If not, that's fine. The Way Towards Health would be the most obvious example of the Seth material to read if you wish to learn more about such things. As well as Gabor or Joe's books too.

Might seem like a tangent, and I can't post the picture as it's not PG-13 but Thich Quang Duc was a monk who self-immolated and burned to death without even uttering a sound whilst in a state of meditation. Again you could probably refute this being an example of mind over matter, and again - that's your choice.

But think about how most people react if they burn themselves on steam or the oven etc. Usually it's an immediate scream and swearing etc. Now think about someone who is doused in fuel, set on fire, burns to death, sat still in a state of meditation, and doesn't utter a sound.

Mind over matter.

It's also worth looking into the scientific research behind meditation. It makes for some fascinating reading, and once again - shows mind over matter.

Ed

Previously, as a cancer researcher in experimental pathology, I have looked at such claims. They fall into two groups; a misdiagnosis with no proof of biopsies or a pathology report (failure to diagnose still is the #1 cause of medical malpractice), or simple hypochondria. Yes, mood can influence the function of the immune system, yet I have seen no convincing evidence that, without specific priming by antigen, the immune system, either innate or adaptive can be mobilized against neoplasia by thought alone. Zero testable evidence.

As a scientist I deal in data, not glib sounding speculation. Put simply, the Cosmos is wholly naturalistic and materialistic, which makes claims testable. And, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

 

[Forest Cat]

Not just sick - but terminally ill, and some refused any treatment whatsoever and the cancer disappeared. Easy to dismiss as hokum I'm sure.

To be honest it's not my task to try and convince you otherwise as you don't seem to see it as a possibility. I could get the books, go through the chapters, find the examples and type up long quotes. But you could just as easily call that "woo woo" or hogwash etc.

Read the books if you wish. If not, that's fine. The Way Towards Health would be the most obvious example of the Seth material to read if you wish to learn more about such things. As well as Gabor or Joe's books too.

Might seem like a tangent, and I can't post the picture as it's not PG-13 but Thich Quang Duc was a monk who self-immolated and burned to death without even uttering a sound whilst in a state of meditation. Again you could probably refute this being an example of mind over matter, and again - that's your choice.

But think about how most people react if they burn themselves on steam or the oven etc. Usually it's an immediate scream and swearing etc. Now think about someone who is doused in fuel, set on fire, burns to death, sat still in a state of meditation, and doesn't utter a sound.

Mind over matter.

It's also worth looking into the scientific research behind meditation. It makes for some fascinating reading, and once again - shows mind over matter.

Ed

No, I'm not saying it's hokum or that I don't believe it. I'm just saying I don't see a way to prove it, that's all. How can they prove it, there's no way to prove they healed themselves if all they did was think. There could easily be other explanations. This is how people end up in cults and get scammed out of their life savings, they trust someone telling them things, giving them solutions and convincing them of things. That's why we need proof.

That guy you mentioned, that's probably the guy on the Rage Against The Machine album cover? Sure he sat still and didn't say much but I think that just proves that he was incredibly stubborn and a hard man. I understand that it was impressive in a crazy way, but it's not the same as healing yourself, it's very different.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Mind over matter is very much a thing practiced in the East, which is still being "discovered" or dismissed in the West. As well as the biological advantages of certain herbal practices and remedies that are still being 'officially' researched as the social biases (i.e. it's all hoodoo) are slowly being challenged. But because there may not be extensive scientific studies on the subject doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible. As others have pointed out, there are still limitations we have to overcome as well.

Mind over matter? Core body temperature controlled by the brain

Now, I'd like to see the survival rate of such meditation at antarctic winter temperatures, naked, in a stiff katabatic wind for 24 hours. When conditions are controlled, it is easy to obtain success.

 

[LadyS]

Now, I'd like to see the survival rate of such meditation at antarctic winter temperatures, naked, in a stiff katabatic wind for 24 hours. When conditions are controlled, it is easy to obtain success.

I don't think anyone ever said meditation and "mind over matter" doesn't have any limitations. After all, humans aren't perfect.

 

[Forest Cat]

If I don't mind, it doesn't matter. That's all I know about mind over matter.