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Do you believe in God?

Do you believe in a supreme being?


  • Total voters
    209
You're the one who jumped on me, idiot. But yeah, I got the wrong idea there. Its difficult to keep up, cause you're talking ****. I was posting my views on religion. What, so by your trend, don't complain about anything you can't control? Want me to dig up a bunch of your posts that contradicts that statement? Who are you saying i've upset, what michaelh? Emor? They both started with me, he did cause I asked him if he was claiming he was gay, for attention, then he had a fit. And tried to make out i'm the sort of person that makes him cut himself, thats pathetic. Or Emzzz, she just doesn't like any kind of insult against women.

Make me a coffee while you're at it.
 
I'm not gonna react to this, I know it's what you're looking for. Looks like my assessment was pretty spot on about your goading for reactions. The shoutbox tonight was a big indicator.
 
Any discussion about religion is bound to ruffle feathers no matter what your opinion is.

The scary part is that there are countries who have access to atomic weapons arguing over this.

Most people's views come from how they were raised,although changes of heart have been known to occur.

In my mind, there is no god,never was, never will be. The world would be better off with out that concept,

the whole thing causes more problems that It's worth.
 
Any discussion about religion is bound to ruffle feathers no matter what your opinion is.

The scary part is that there are countries who have access to atomic weapons arguing over this.

Most people's views come from how they were raised,although changes of heart have been known to occur.

In my mind, there is no god,never was, never will be. The world would be better off with out that concept,

the whole thing causes more problems that It's worth.

I have to agree there. Be careful though, you might get reported for trolling with those kind of opinions :lol:
 
I dont want to think about it because, if God is real, I'm going to hell. Suicide = Sin. Homosexuality = Sin. Using something or other's name in vain = Sin. Darn.
 
I dont want to think about it because, if God is real, I'm going to hell. Suicide = Sin. Homosexuality = Sin. Using something or other's name in vain = Sin. Darn.
Dude. **** it. Seriously. Hell will ****ing own anyway.
I mean, seriously, this is what it is.
Eternity with serial killers, rapists, awesome gay people, etc.
ORRRR
Eternity with conservative Christians?
It'd suck. Srsly.
Don't worry about it.
Hell seems awesome anyway. Cya there if it exists ^_^. LOL.
EMZ=]
 
The Old-Man God of the Christian masses? Certainly no! There can hardly be anything more certain than natural, intellectual subscription to this unbelief. :-)

As for the 'The God', I don't think It is an object of belief at all. So talking about beliefs/dogmas are ultimately absurd when applied to That. There's something altogether beyond believing, and beyond cognition itself, which is supra-rational (self-existent Essence, unknown except in Itself, by Itself, yet knowledgeably rational, manifestly mutliplicity-bearing, and so absolutely not irrational, such as in the Kantian sense).

Like vision, the expansive intellect is limited in range, but not in acceptance, so at least we can truly see the Necessity of Existence as That Singularity (Being An Sich, free of intellectual-existential negation). (The objects of the intellect can be denied categorically but no matter how much it denies them, it cannot deny both itself and Existence, seeing how infinitely different existence is from non-existence, essentially and consequentially.) Only then can phenomena be seen as they are in themselves, beyond mere objectivity and subjectivity. Reality in Itself.

Alternatively, to unharnessed minds like Nietzsche, the sociological God of most people is just this:

G = Great (Uber!)
O = Or
D = Dead

Either he/she/it is infinitely Great or utterly Dead ('retired', soon after creating).
 
Evar, I love reading your posts.

Sometimes I only have to read your posts 2 or 3 times to understand them. Sometimes even that doesn't help, but even when I haven't the foggiest what you are talking about I feel enlightened just by having read your post.

Either way it is obvious that you are a smart fellow, and your thinking is very deep and on another plane entirely.
 
142857,

And thanks for reading my posts instead of ignoring them :-).

It's due to an unusual form of Asperger and rather severe dyspraxia that I speak and think like this. But I do so very consciously: entirely conscious of the thought processes, I just don't need to plan/organize them.

Like you and almost everyone else (perhaps), I was fed with this question during infancy:

"If the Universe is the answer, what is the question?"

It never took crystallized intelligence (or worse, rote classroom, book-bound learning) for me to be able to answer this.

The answer is simple: actually, the Universe neither has an outside nor an inside (imagine a Klein bottle, which has topological existence, but without 'metricity' (global metric structure)), and so the question is none other than the answer, but neither the question nor the answer is the Universe. In other words, both the question and the answer are nullified since this is necessarily the very beginning of logic: it is self-emptying without negation of its Super-Set, { }, the Intellect an sich and Existence an sich.

And so, the Universe is neither ultimately physical nor merely mental/informational, although all intelligible categories are none other than itself (but not equivalent to it). So, what is it? No words, just the 'self-eyeing' Universe (with big U), otherwise just called Noumena, Nous.

It's like a mirror and the things seen reflected there. Are they IN the mirror? Do they exist there? No: this is where injective logic emerges as soon as you look into it (the mirror) and also ends as soon as you transcend it by 'looking elsewhere, deeper, beyond, into the self-dual Mind Itself'---and not/never in any opposing irrationality---or, as some might say, 'within the within'. Yet where else do they (phenomena) appear/take place if not in the mirror? By 'mirror' I do not simply mean gross physical existence but the whole Universe as a tautological continuum that appears non-diffusive only due to the Intellect (with big I), inherent in itself. This whole universal continuum, in turn, is capable of giving rise to discrete multiverses (instead of universes) when the notion of 'scale' is first introduced (as a 'Kantian category').

I won't give the pan-Hellenic details here for they are manifestly nothing but a near-empty set: a diagonal, unimodular 'hyper-matrix' consisting of an infinite number of the pair (0, 1) with 'determinant' (absolute value) 1 and unrestricted rank (genus), signifying the supremacy of Existence (That-Which-Is) over an infinite range of null sets.

Further, I can only say that (as I can trust discrete jumps and what's beyond them when it comes to your special mind) the conclusion is this: If Existence weren't the way It Really Is In Itself (as The Singularity without objects of knowledge as well as without rank/determination in Itself, but which necessarily manifests them consequentially, if and when manifestation takes place), both existence and non-existence would NOT exist, or, as a secondary self-proving corollary, existence and non-existence would be completely equivalent at ALL ontological, contingent levels, which is absurd.

As I said earlier, That is not an object of belief at all. Neither is That a subject of belief. Why? Simply because Existence is self-distinct and encompasses both Itself and Its direct otherness (non-existence) at the first level of logic, where the objects of knowledge first arise as part of the first transfinite multiplicity within Unity. This way, Existence is always dissimilar to categorical phenomena at all subsequent levels, including Its own primary noetic attributes (although denying them in the first category would amount to denying Existence Itself; for this reason logic can never be denied (and so let the mind evolve, please, don't banish it!), if it ever has to disappear then it shall disappear 'within/into itself' and not elsewhere), whether they exist as purely abstract principles or concrete objects usually tangible to all sentient beings.

What about rationality? It depends on the 'substance' of the intellect and so we can say that when we can cognize at once That-Which-Is, ourselves, and the Universe (including its generals and particulars), the Ratio is simply perfected and fulfilled but NEVER negated (hence any mere mythic-dogmatic religion is ultimately wrong in the very beginning and is 'not even wrong' anywhere near Reality).

Hence: { } is the symbol for That-Which-Is (Pure Existence), whose substantial Image is the Nous (Pure Intellect), and whose Mirror is the Universe. It is in the Universe, this Mirror, that { } sees Itself phenomenally, through the noumenal Nous.

Both noumena (tacit, intuitive, pre-systematic underpinnings) and phenomena (such as those of philosophy and 'hardcore' science), as categories of knowledge, are encompassed by that 'conspansive' Ratio capable of both singularity/contraction and duality (multiplicity)/expansion by means of substantial, non-phenomenal 'effusion'.

And so, with respect to the Pure Intellect (the Monad that sees (is conscious of) all things without being attached to them) I'd rather call things 'surjects' (instead of 'subjects' and 'objects') and refer to Reality as 'surjective' (instead of 'subjective' and 'objective'). But that's another 'boring' thing ^_^.

Only now can I doubly gladly say to you (you're the smart fellow), thanks for existing!





Evar, I love reading your posts.

Sometimes I only have to read your posts 2 or 3 times to understand them. Sometimes even that doesn't help, but even when I haven't the foggiest what you are talking about I feel enlightened just by having read your post.

Either way it is obvious that you are a smart fellow, and your thinking is very deep and on another plane entirely.
 
I was curious myself actually, as I have never read the bible (didn't even get past Genesis, as I got tired of '______ fathered ___, yadda yadda so on and so forth" of many chapters...couldn't do it.). Anyway....

Astronomical allusions in the Old Testament

The "host of heaven", a frequently recurring Scriptural expression, has both a general and a specific meaning. It designates, in some passages, the entire array of stars; in others it particularly applies to the sun, moon, planets, andcertain selected stars; the worship of which was introduced from Babylonia under the later kings of Israel.
The planets

Venus and Saturn are the only planets expressedly mentioned in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 14:12 apostrophizes the Babylonian Empire under the unmistakable type of Helal (Lucifer in the Vulgate), "son of the morning".

Saturn is no less certainly represented by the star Kaiwan, adored by the reprobate Israelites in the desert (Amos 5:26). The same word (interpreted to mean "steadfast") frequently designates, in the Babylonian inscriptions, the slowest-moving planet; while Sakkuth, the divinity associated with the star by the prophet, is an alternative appellation for Ninib, who, as a Babylonian planet-god, was merged with Saturn. The ancient Syrians and Arabs, too, called Saturn Kaiwan, the corresponding terms in the Zoroastrian Bundahish being Kevan. The other planets are individualized in the Bible only by implication. The worship of gods connected with them is denounced, but without any manifest intention of refering to the heavenly bodies. Thus, Gad and Meni (Isaias, lxv, 11) are, no doubt, the "greater and the lesser Fortune" typified throughout the East by Jupiter and Venus; Neba, the tutelary deity of Borsippa (Isaias xlvi, 1), shone in the sky as Mercury, and Nergal, transplanted frorn Assyria to Kutha (2 Kings 17:30), as Mars.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02029a.htm
 
I didn't until last summer sometime. I'd been a complete atheist, but suddenly I realized that stranger things have happened just to me in my life than there turning out to be some kind of higher power, and that one just can't know. Once I reached that point, I decided I'd give believing a try and see where it takes me. As it turns out I really like being a believer.
 
Depends what you mean by god. If you mean the God where Christians believes in, the one who is claimed to create Earth and made us humans from dirt. Then no.

I don`t believe in any monotheism religions such as Christianity because they don`t make any logical sense to me. And no one can prove that Christianity is an absolute truth or that God exist. I just think that these religions is just another human invention. I can think of many reasons why people made these things up; To give us comfort, to give answers to our big questions like "Whats the purpose of live?" and "What happens after we die?" and simply to brainwash us.

This quote from a comedian and philosopher George Carlin is one of my favorites; "Religion is ********!" So true
 
Atheist, agnostic, and free-thinker are NOT always the same.

True, a lot of people claiming to be 'religious' are quite shallow in their being domineering, over-particular, and self-righteous. They easily mistake beliefs for Reality. They believe pasting stickers on tidal waves can be done successfully this way. Their 'God' certainly lives in a small box. As long as 'salvation' requires just 'believing', then most certainly, you'll have your head (read: mind) chopped off to fit in that box of theirs.

But I also tend to laugh at those who easily describe themselves as 'atheists' just to sound 'smart'. I don't think they're that smart. They just scatter their words and efforts just because the topic 'religion' or 'God' has become sociologically too monotonous. Welcome to post-modernism.

Mind you, most of the brilliant philosophers dealing with ontology and epistemology (Kant, Jacobi, Fichte, Hegel, Husserl, Heidegger, Whitehead, Wittgenstein, etc.) have never been atheists. The word 'God' is something else to them, deeply related to the question of 'That-Which-Is' (Being-in-Itself), which none can deny; not Existence, not Intellect; not neoumena, not phenomena.

So that's something entirely different from the 'sociological God' of the masses that tends to give subjective, stubborn, self-righteous indulgences and other such relative ailments of humanity. And, certainly, it's not the same thing as the 'God' rejected by atheists---on the other relative end of belief (that is, disbelief).

God (the 'Infinitely One') is not a subject of belief at all, let alone an object of empirical proof. It is not even an object of scientific investigation; so when certain modern scientists say they are atheists and that there can't be God (not a god), there's no real weight in that unless they truly encompassingly understand Philosophy from its roots to its branches (empirical science, by the way, is just a branch of Philosophy, despite with its own leafs and flowers). But, in our time, few are really philosophically capable of 'doing God'. Things have narrowed down and given birth to specialists only.

To get the meaning of 'empirical' right, far from the bias of positivism, understand epistemology first as to what is categorically empirical and what is beyond that, as required by the whole edifice of logical ('metaphysical') consistency. The entirety of logic housing ontology, epistemology, phenomenology, dialectics; logic, syllogism, paralogism, tautology, solipsism---and all that---is simply called 'metaphysics' in Philosophy.

What remains is what is meant by the word 'God' the way epistemologists analyze it, including already their 'analysis of analysis' itself; if not the meta-structure of consciousness itself.

Recall also that Einstein was not an atheist. Surely he was far from being an orthodox Jew; but it did infuriate him when the atheists of his time bluntly and proudly associated themselves with his name. He was simply a free-thinker and his God was somewhat close to 'that of Spinoza', witnessed in the symphonic cosmos but, in Itself, still veiled in supra-rational (not irrational) mystery. He could not find any expression for It; but enjoyed 'encounter with It' in certain celestial classical music. To Yehudi Menuhin, he said, when the prodigious 13-year-old lad had just finished his classical performance on stage (in Berlin), "Now, I know that there IS God." (He didn't mean this God or that God, but simply a certain ecstatic affinity with the Inexpressible, the Infinite revealed in the spontaneity of the Finite, such as in music.)

Neither was Shakyamuni Buddha an atheist. He simply was elegantly, deeply so quiet about God, or at least less detailed in what It (That) might have to do with belief and all that. He spoke of realization, not belief (including disbelief), not the countless finite mental projections onto Reality. He did throw several, 'naked' glimpses into It (as Reality) though, at a few mature disciples of his with perfected minds and self-constitutions.

I'd rather speak of Knowing and Not-Knowing; Being and Non-Being; Existence and Non-Existence; Reality and Non-Reality; as far as epistemology is structurally, consistently capable of it, than mumble on (dis)beliefs as a 'perfectionist (dis)believer'.
 
If you take the "personal" out of God, as thinkers like Einstein did, then what you think of as God is basically a set of physical processes or an underlying order within the universe. Einstein's believe in a non-personal God manifested itself in his obsession with proving that things did not simply happen randomly, that there was always a scientific explanation for everything. And the belief that all things could be predicted if you knew the laws of the universe and you had the appropriate input data. That is my take on the "God" that Einstein believed in.

When Stephen J Hawking talks of "knowing the mind of God" as being the ultimate aim of the type of science that he studies, he is not talking about doing an MRI on the brain of the invisible, bearded man in the sky. He is talking about understanding the physical nature of the universe, a belief that all things can be understood through science - something that our human understanding of science is still far short of.
 
This reflects the ideas of some facing the frontiers courageously.

The non-personal God, taken as the Entirety of Cosmic Process, is the view of Alfred North Whitehead, among the more contemporary thinkers known to me. Among cosmologists, this was the view of Fred Hoyle, with his theory of Continuous Creation Cosmology (as opposed to the Big Bang Theory). To him, the cosmos must be eternal, physically infinite both in the past and the future. The Swedish physicist Hannes Alfven also expounded this view, in another theory (Plasma Cosmology).

Einstein was actually more silent about this as he admitted he was 'not a philosopher', despite his passionate reading of Kant in his youth. He didn't even say that he was a pantheist or monist, he only admired Spinoza for the elegant tangibility of his ideas. Still, he could neither fully support nor refute Spinoza, since he was a physicist, not a philosopher. (In common with others, Spinoza has been 'ridiculed' to a certain great extent by, among others, Hegel, Jacobi, and Fichte.)

Einstein only said that his search for a unified field theory (at which he ultimately failed) was 'purely for physical consideration', the sheer enjoyment and labor of which he deemed 'deeply religious'. He wanted the cosmos (not necessarily God) to be intuitive and rational, that is, to him, entirely geometrical (just as he had geometrized gravitation, turning it into non-Euclidean curved space-time): "I want to know whether God had other options prior to the creation of the (physical) Universe; whether I would have done the same thing in His place." He just could not accept the prevailing Copenhagen interpretation (paradigm) of quantum mechanics, and sought to modify it by his 'more deterministic' unified field theory (a task taken by David Bohm later in the realm of quantum mechanics alone). It was the philosophical foundation of mainstream quantum mechanics that he was against, and not actually God. Also, he could not take the idea of a 'Personal God' (that of the Bible) seriously, though Einstein's encounter with the Persona still had to go through levels of often revolutionary sublimation (see the exchange of ideas between Einstein, Wolfgang Pauli, and Carl Jung).

But, unlike the authentically recalcitrant Einstein, easily speaking, the often over-rated, famous Hawking (don't take everything Wikipedia says for granted; especially Wikipedia), who believes in the Copenhagen interpretation, is quite a bad philosopher, as he knows nothing of epistemology; just as Aristotle was fairly a 'bad physicist' (which is why Averroes had to modify things a bit), or just as there are many good engineers who happen to be bad philosophers---and perhaps the other way around too.

Empirical science, again, is just a branch of philosophical realization, not the trunk of Reality, let alone the roots. The entire scope of the physical sciences, and for that reason natural philosophy, has been definitively given in epistemology as the analytical study (whether descriptive or mathematical) and observation of natural phenomena.

There can be an infinite number of progressive processes as well as physical events/objects with immediate empirical significance, but they cannot actually tell us what the Intellect is (in Itself), or what Existence is (in Itself), which is the scope of epistemology beyond 'what', 'where', 'how'. At best, they can stimulate our coherent thinking through some sort of cosmic 'mirroring'.

Despite the view of Whitehead (I'm not sure if he took this literally or if he had some further things left unsaid), Process cannot replace both Intellect and Existence (that is, Being-in-Itself) in classical epistemology (say, from Plato to Averroes and Avicenna, to Kant and Jacobi, to Hegel and Husserl). If this were true, then there could absolutely be Process without Existence (and hence anything phenomenal could ALWAYS be said to have precedence over Existence, which is absurd), as they would imply perfect substantial equivalence since there can be no other ontological level beyond this; while Process, whether physical or mental, is but a phenomenological branch, a category of Existence initiated by phenomenal 'momentum', intrinsic and extrinsic variation, and contingency, and so all that is not/never equivalent to Existence Itself.

So what happens if we take 'The Personal' away from God? Then It still can't be said to be a self-revealed Process, as explained above. It's neither physical nor informational. It's better to be silent at this point, like Wittgenstein, who was furious when Bertrand Russell (an atheist logician) misunderstood the essence of his 'Tractatus' (Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus), a truly exhaustive treatment of Logic (Metaphysics), including all the systematic underpinnings of rational and transcendental knowledge.

"What-Is?" (It's not a question at all.) :rofl:









If you take the "personal" out of God, as thinkers like Einstein did, then what you think of as God is basically a set of physical processes or an underlying order within the universe. Einstein's believe in a non-personal God manifested itself in his obsession with proving that things did not simply happen randomly, that there was always a scientific explanation for everything. And the belief that all things could be predicted if you knew the laws of the universe and you had the appropriate input data. That is my take on the "God" that Einstein believed in.

When Stephen J Hawking talks of "knowing the mind of God" as being the ultimate aim of the type of science that he studies, he is not talking about doing an MRI on the brain of the invisible, bearded man in the sky. He is talking about understanding the physical nature of the universe, a belief that all things can be understood through science - something that our human understanding of science is still far short of.
 

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