Does anybody know anything about this form of autism (High Emotional Intelligence)?

[Xickin]

Hello, I was wondering if anybody could relate to this, and could possibly give me some advice:
So I've come to the conclusion that I am a highly emotionally intelligent individual. I feel emotions much more powerfully than most other people, I can relate quite easily to most other human beings, I do well in maintaining my relationships (though I let very few people in), and I have a constant need to be creative and focus on my craft (writing).
I've gone on to try and find anything delving into autism and the emotionally intelligent, but so far all I can find are articles saying how people with autism have a low EI. I would just like to know what other peoples' experiences are like with this, and what they've done for/with it.

 

[Gerontius]

Came to this conclusion with the help of whom, exactly?

 

[Darkkin]

There is a difference between having functional emotional intelligence and the double empathy paradox. Often autistics can pick up and almost over-empathize with the emotions of others, while not being able to separate their own emotions from the sudden influx of emotions.

Many of us can pick up on fear and anxiety because we struggle with them ourselves, like recognizing like...

Emotional intelligence (EI) is most often defined as the ability to perceive, use, understand, manage, and handle emotions. People with high emotional intelligence can recognize their own emotions and those of others, use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior, discern between different feelings and label them appropriately, and adjust emotions to adapt to environments.

Quantifiably this is the antithesis of autism which is a measurable deficit of social communication and interactions.

Autism:

a neurodevelopmental condition of variable severity with lifelong effects that can be recognized from early childhood, chiefly characterized by difficulties with social interaction and communication and by restricted or repetitive patterns of thought and behavior.

The biggest issue stems from the identification and management of said emotions. 50 - 60% of autistics struggle with alexithymia. 40 - 60% have a comorbidity with ADHD. 99% of those deal with some level of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria, (which is a fancy way of saying big reactions for very small things, and is the single biggest challenge according to ADHDers).

No one is saying there aren't emotionally intelligent autistics, I'm sure there are a few, but this is something that takes radical self acceptance, interoception, objectivity, and a significant level of self awareness. A skill set, most people as a whole struggle with. The term actually didn't even exist until 1964.

A single, fixed perspective of emtional experiences doesn't make an objective comparison. That is not EI, that is basic assumption.

A huge number of autistics, many of them late diagnosed have been labelled HSPs or indigo children. Hyperintelligent, highly empathetic individuals. Most of these individuals are ND, but not all are ASD, a majority deal with anxiety, depression, and mood swings.

Emotional intelligence comes from accepting one's self and any included divergences. It means confronting things like RSD, managing anxiety, coping with depression. Addressing personal emotions, as well as those of people around us.

It isn't about "understanding what other people feel' and feeding a creative drive. One could argue that pets are just as adept, if not more so, than people at sensing a person's emotions because the animals pick up on the nonverbal cues and body language as they are biologically coded to do.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Hello, I was wondering if anybody could relate to this, and could possibly give me some advice:
So I've come to the conclusion that I am a highly emotionally intelligent individual. I feel emotions much more powerfully than most other people, I can relate quite easily to most other human beings, I do well in maintaining my relationships (though I let very few people in), and I have a constant need to be creative and focus on my craft (writing).
I've gone on to try and find anything delving into autism and the emotionally intelligent, but so far all I can find are articles saying how people with autism have a low EI. I would just like to know what other peoples' experiences are like with this, and what they've done for/with it.

Keep in mind there is far more neurodiversity within the autistic community than that of the neurotypical population. One of the hallmarks of the "typical" autistic brain is significant asymmetry in intelligences. There appears to be a subpopulation of autistics that have identified themselves as "empaths", and you may be one yourself.

One has to be careful with the language regarding "empathy". We have to separate cognitive empathy with emotional empathy when we speak of autism. Cognitive empathy has more to do with perspective taking, imagining oneself in another's situation, understanding how the other person is feeling, understanding intent, etc. Emotional empathy is being able to respond with grief, happiness, anger, etc. in an appropriate manner in response to another person's situation. The "typical" autistic will have more difficulties around cognitive empathy than emotional empathy, in general. However, there are some autistics also have a condition called alexithymia where emotions are being felt, but not identified by the person for minutes, hours, or days. Some researchers have suggested that the "mirror neuron" function is altered in autism. Regardless, many of us do feel emotional content very deeply, but there may be a brain-body disconnect in some, and we might not respond appropriately "in the moment". So, there may be a tendency to make claims of "low empathy" when, in fact, there is only a processing delay. I would go further to suggest that given the fact that the autistic community is statistically more likely to have developed PTSD, C-PTSD, OCD, disabling anxieties, phobias, etc., this would suggest that, statistically, we likely feel emotions deeper than neurotypicals.

 

[Xickin]

Came to this conclusion with the help of whom, exactly?

With the help of my loved ones and my therapist - as well as through my own endeavours.

There is a difference between having functional emotional intelligence and the double empathy paradox. Often autistics can pick up and almost over-empathize with the emotions of others, while not being able to separate their own emotions from the sudden influx of emotions.

Many of us can pick up on fear and anxiety because we struggle with them ourselves, like recognizing like...

Emotional intelligence (EI) is most often defined as the ability to perceive, use, understand, manage, and handle emotions. People with high emotional intelligence can recognize their own emotions and those of others, use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior, discern between different feelings and label them appropriately, and adjust emotions to adapt to environments.

The biggest issue stems from the identification and management of said emotions. 50 - 60% of autistics struggle with alexithymia. 40 - 60% have a comorbidity with ADHD. 99% of those deal with some level of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria, (which is a fancy way of saying big reactions for very small things, and is the single biggest challenge according to ADHDers).

No one is saying there aren't emotionally intelligent autistics, I'm sure there are a few, but this is something that takes radical self acceptance, interoception, objectivity, and a significant level of self awareness. A skill set, most people as a whole struggle with. The term actually didn't even exist until 1964.

So just a checklist: I am able to separate my own emotions from myself, I can perceive, understand, manage and handle my emotions (to a certain degree, mind you [long story short: I denied myself, recently broke, and am now putting the pieces back together]). I can trace my feelings as physical sensations in my body; thus allowing me to dissect and evaluate said emotions, thereby finding the root cause - even if the emotion itself seemingly came from no where. I often act as a confident to others, and after listening to them, I am able to "zero-in" on where their problems stem from, and develop a plan to work on them.
Up until recently, I would have said I do struggle with alexithymia, but not so much now. I do share traits with people with ADHD.
I've actually moved on in a lot of ways from former traumas and events that have (metaphorically) trapped me (took me 27 years, but whatever). By doing so (with the assistance of meditation) I would say I'm moving further away from Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria.
It wasn't until very recently that I could see beyond the scope of myself (my depression and lack of confidence ruled me), allow myself to accept my disability. After my break, I've found myself having a better assessment of what I want in life and how I would like to achieve my goals.

 

[Darkkin]

The proof is in the pudding of the self acceptance and accountability of the individual. It isn't a test or merit badge waiting to be earned and praised.

People with sociopathic traits can also present with extremely accurate EI because their own viewpoint is not clouded by emotions or empathy. This makes them particularly adept a reading people and manipulating situations by preying on the emotions of others.

One could quantifiable argue that autistics more often present with either a lack of empathy due to recognition deficits or hypersensitive empathy compounded by alexithymia, not quantifiable, inherent EI. What identification, management, and application are accrued, are gained through study and practice. It is not inherent to the neurotype.

 

[Xickin]

Sorry for the double post

Keep in mind there is far more neurodiversity within the autistic community than that of the neurotypical population. One of the hallmarks of the "typical" autistic brain is significant asymmetry in intelligences. There appears to be a subpopulation of autistics that have identified themselves as "empaths", and you may be one yourself.

One has to be careful with the language regarding "empathy". We have to separate cognitive empathy with emotional empathy when we speak of autism. Cognitive empathy has more to do with perspective taking, imagining oneself in another's situation, understanding how the other person is feeling, understanding intent, etc. Emotional empathy is being able to respond with grief, happiness, anger, etc. in an appropriate manner in response to another person's situation. The "typical" autistic will have more difficulties around cognitive empathy than emotional empathy, in general. However, there are some autistics also have a condition called alexithymia where emotions are being felt, but not identified by the person for minutes, hours, or days. Some researchers have suggested that the "mirror neuron" function is altered in autism. Regardless, many of us do feel emotional content very deeply, but there may be a brain-body disconnect in some, and we might not respond appropriately "in the moment". So, there may be a tendency to make claims of "low empathy" when, in fact, there is only a processing delay. I would go further to suggest that given the fact that the autistic community is statistically more likely to have developed PTSD, C-PTSD, OCD, disabling anxieties, phobias, etc., this would suggest that, statistically, we likely feel emotions deeper than neurotypicals.

In terms of Cognitive empathy, I have never had a problem with putting myself in other people's shoes, understanding their viewpoints, as well as how and why they feel the way they feel. To be perfectly frank, I like to see the goodness in people, so I think that interrupts my ability to "understand intent".
Emotional empathy was something I have kind of suppressed over the years -people thought I was being overly-emotional- so I trained myself to feel emotions less intensely (until very recently that is).
I'm honestly tired of pretending to be something I'm not, and emotions are a huge part of me. If I didn't have such a low battery-life, I would've probably gone into some form of social worker career.

@Darkkin I think I'm on the road to self-acceptance, honestly. Believe it or not, my entire worldview changed just a little over six months ago. I've always taken responsibility for my actions, and I absolutely hate people who use their mental illness or disabilities as weapons or excuses for their behaviour. I have made it a mission in my life to not emulate that type of behaviour - which in retrospect made me want to deny my autism even more.

 

[Ella Spell]

I'm an empath or a sponge for other people's emotional energy. Regardless, I still "fail" the empathy tests. I was confused how this could be. I think it's because I have such severe Alexithymia and difficulties with Selective Mutism that I don't always express my empathy in the right ways. I don't know the names of all the emotions I feel from other people even though they're overwhelming. If I have just one emotion it's usually strong, but I can't necessarily name it. When I experience more than one emotion combined, I short-circuit and it all turns to a blur.

Expressing the emotion or knowing what to do about it is even harder. With SM I have trouble articulating my thoughts verbally. With poor facial expressions and flat affect, I usually send the wrong vibe, like looking stone-faced when I want to cry. When I write emotional responses to people I try to guard myself from going overboard because I don't want to overwhelm the other person, and I'm scared that maybe I'm feeling more than they want me to.

There's also the danger of "fawning" on someone (e.g., Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn), if I say too much. That just stirs up my feelings and makes me even more overwhelmed because I can't name any of it, and it's hard enough to deal with my own emotions rather than obsessing on someone else's. That doesn't mean I don't care. It means I care too much, and I'm at risk of ignoring my own needs if I deep dive into someone else's feelings.

 

[Darkkin]

Just going to point out that this is an objective (not personal, writers call it the fourth wall) discussion. Yet everything is a fixed first person perspective (I).

Cognitive empathy is recognizing the perspective of others, stepping out of the self for even the briefest moment.

Literally no one has addressed the individual (you). No one has said boo to a goose about anyone, folks merely pointed out the differences and functions of empathy, alexithymia, and functional EI play in the ASD neurotype.

It is a complex multifaceted issue, in which the term High EI ASD is not an accurate phrasing. High empathy, yes.

High EI not likely without radical and conscious work on self awareness or a clinical deficit of emotion without the recognition deficits (sociopathy). A sociopathy comorbidity with ASD is going to be roughly 1% of the 2.12% that makes up the ASD population in the US.

Emotional intelligence is accrued learning through a lifetime of interactions. Empathy is an inherent behaviour driven by the limbic system. Therein rests the issue with the terminology. It is misleading.

The challenge was solely on the use of the term High EI. Paradoxically, some hyper-empathetic ASDers have a nearly uncanny ability to spot EI manipulation. The people some ASDers dislike instinctively for no tangible reason...is because of increased limbic activation in their brains. It is a primative sensory warning system that is surprisingly accurate because it reads at a subconscious level.

From a writer's standpoint functional EI is being able to empathize with multiple perspectives and objectively assess the triggering factors of emotions. Objectivity speaks as the second person narrator giving a guided tour to (you). Outside of technical and non-fiction writing, the second person perspective is almost never seen.

Amend the criteria to late diagnosed autistics and look at the patterns of people who experience very deep empathy, and why that empathy is a key factor in a missed or late diagnosis. Women especially are confronted with this challenge.

 

[Xickin]

Just going to point out that this is an objective (not personal, writers call it the fourth wall) discussion. Yet everything is a fixed first person perspective (I).

Cognitive empathy is recognizing the perspective of others, stepping out of the self for even the briefest moment.

Literally no one has addressed the individual (you). No one has said boo to a goose about anyone, folks merely pointed out the differences and functions of empathy, alexithymia, and functional EI play in the ASD neurotype.

It is a complex multifaceted issue, in which the term High EI ASD is not an accurate phrasing. High empathy, yes.

High EI not likely without radical and conscious work on self awareness or a clinical deficit of emotion without the recognition deficits (sociopathy). A sociopathy comorbidity with ASD is going to be roughly 1% of the 2.12% that makes up the ASD population in the US.

Emotional intelligence is accrued learning through a lifetime of interactions. Empathy is an inherent behaviour driven by the limbic system. Therein rests the issue with the terminology. It is misleading.

The challenge was solely on the use of the term High EI.

So I'm really sorry if I'm not understanding you correctly, but I'm going to do my best in my response:

1. It's mostly fixed to "I" statements because (amongst a plethora of other reasons and issues) I need to know if other people here can relate to my experiences and (potential) abilities. I just want to know how alone I am or not.

2. Correct.

3. You are right, no one has addressed me in particular, but in this circumstance I felt the "I" statements were the appropriate ones, considering the main point of this thread was a way for me to reach out (sorry if the title was misleading, but I thought that because I put the thread under "Help and Support" that that would make it clearer). I just want to know who or what I am in this community - it's also a little bit of insecurity on my part.

4. While not through a professional assessment, I seem to keep lining my personality, interests, and overall outlook on life with those that say they are related to high EI.

5. Without delving too much into my personal life, relationships and how people act have not only been an interest of mine, they have also been a constant stressor. I assume -like me- much of the autistic community had to learn the workings of neurotypicals, so that they could Mask as best they could. When I masked though, I masked hard. It almost became a crisis of identity because of how in character I was. The only thing I can't see myself doing is manipulating anyone intentionally because I view that as wrong, so my thought process towards that shuts down almost immediately.

 

[Darkkin]

It boils down to the use of the key terms of empathy and EI, which were being used interchangeably, an issue common to many terms in psychology. The terms are vastly different in their functions and nature.

Pay attention to the nature of terms and it is much easier to define workable parameters.

As Hannibal Lecter paraphrases Marcus Aurelius in Silence of the Lambs: 'First principles, Clarice. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? '

 

[Xickin]

It boils down to the use of the key terms of empathy and EI, which were being used interchangeably, an issue common to many terms in psychology. The terms are vastly different in their functions and nature.

Pay attention to the nature of terms and it is much easier to define workable parameters.

As Hannibal Lecter paraphrases Marcus Aurelius in Silence of the Lambs: 'First principles, Clarice. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? '

Fair enough; this is still very new to me, because up until very recently I never considered EI to be a real thing, only a term to make people feel better about their lack of IQ (that was how I viewed it in the past, and that involved a lot of my own self-hatred).

Regardless, what would it mean if I could be high in both EI and empathy? Maybe the answer I want isn't there, or maybe overall it means nothing. Still, I feel very lost in my own identity as of late, and I think I need some comfort in knowing I'm not the first.

 

[Ella Spell]

Is there an EI test link that you'd recommend, @Darkkin ?

 

[Darkkin]

Fair enough; this is still very new to me, because up until very recently I never considered EI a real thing, only a term to make people feel better about their lack of IQ (that was how I viewed it in the past, and that involved a lot of my own self-hatred).

Regardless, what would it mean if I could be high in both EI and empathy? Maybe the answer I want isn't there, or maybe overall it means nothing. Still, I feel very lost in my own identity as of late, and I think I need some comfort in knowing I'm not the first.

EI(Q) and IQ are arbitrary measures of different aspects and traits of human intelligence, of which we know there are multiple types. They do not determine a person's abilities, worth, or character. They just indicate how well some people's ability to take tests.

Being aware of one's self and others, their emotional needs, and having a strong moral compass are important, and are a skill set not everyone can lay claim to because it takes some tough road work to hone. And people have a way of undervaluing that effort, whether through self sabotage or the actions of others.

Acknowledge the work of conscious self renovation...(pardon the pun, but it gives whole new meaning to DIY). We're human, we all have issues, but by acknowledging our own triggers and shortcomings, we gain valuable user experience points. That is EI, and just like in games, takes time and practice to level up.

Look back on the work that has been done, let the progress matter.

Consider those closest to you. Chances are one or more has a mental health struggle.

e.g.

My best friend deals with anxiety and low self esteem. She is also one of the kindest and hardest working people I know. She is good hearted and has a kind word for everyone except herself. She doesn't think she deserves empathy or kindness. She is her own worst critic and it hurts to see her knock herself down because in her eyes she failed some ridiculous bar she set.

I get after her about this on a regular basis, the fact that she is loved for who she is, as she is. Self compassion is an ongoing lesson because she can't look back and see how far she's come.

She has made amazing strides with both her anxiety and communication skills. And I'm proud of her for her efforts, she is also one of the people I care about most. The twin I never had. She is ADHD, I'm ASD/ADHD so we've always gotten along like a house on fire.

One of the tools that works best for her is pinpointing the cause of an anxiety attack, finding the logic of the limbic trigger. She has seen me in meltdown mode and hasn't judged me. I do the same for her. Being there, offering tools, but sometimes just listening is the biggest help.

 

[Xickin]

EI(Q) and IQ are arbitrary measures of different aspects and traits of human intelligence, of which we know there are multiple types. They do not determine a person's abilities, worth, or character. They just indicate how well some people's ability to take tests.

Being aware of one's self and others, their emotional needs, and having a strong moral compass are important, and are a skill set not everyone can lay claim to because it takes some tough road work to hone. And people have a way of undervaluing that effort, whether through self sabotage or the actions of others.

Acknowledge the work of conscious self renovation...(pardon the pun, but it gives whole new meaning to DIY). We're human, we all have issues, but by acknowledging our own triggers and shortcomings, we gain valuable user experience points. That is EI, and just like in games, takes time and practice to level up.

Look back on the work that has been done, let the progress matter.

I wish I had someone tell me that much earlier in my childhood (and I believed them). My IQ score has always tormented me (ranging from 98 - 120 from unprofessional sources). Not that long ago, I was able to realize that all it was was a number, and not a reflection of me. I felt (and still do to a certain extent) incompetent, and stupid, but paradoxically imaginative and bright.

Yeah, it really has been a hard road for me, but I like to think they've made me into the person I am, and I'm starting to like me. Looking back, maybe it was other people that gave me my insecurities, but it's been me perpetuating them. I've been my own worst enemy my entire life. I thought I was always just being realistic, not pessimistic.

I'm finally starting to get that now. I've always known it, but I never thought I deserved it. Everything I've ever done has been an overcorrection.

The progress (honestly) has been staggering for only 7 months. When my break happened, it was almost as if a miasma of fog in my head was released; I can think so much more clearly now.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

Hey @Xickin, I can definitely relate, and am quite similar. I recommend looking into sensory processing sensitivity if you haven't already. I tend to couple myself from my feelings when analyzing other people's problems and behaviour, and can also be very introspective about myself and where my own emotions stem from (thought it can take me a while). I'm pretty much the opposite of what @Neonatal RRT mentioned. I think I have quite high cognitive empathy as I'm skilled at seeing people's perspective and understanding why they are behaving or feeling as they are and coming up with solutions, while I have low emotional empathy as he describes it since I'm quite terrible at responding with the appropriate feeling in an appropriate manner when others are experiencing strong emotions. I tend to give a blank stare as I process their emotional state.

I've been interested in "agony aunt"/advice columns for a long time, where readers send in a personal problem for an outsider's perspective and to see if they can get any advice. I drink in the suggestions of the "specialist" (while viewing them with a critical eye) and also take note of discussions happening in the comments, which can often be quite personal. I'm also very interested in how other people think and behave, and have read loads of personal accounts from people dealing with trauma and mental health issues, and I have also been in a relationship with a person with several serious problems (ADHD, bipolar, PTSD, anxiety disorder, non-specified eating disorder).

When I was a kid (9-13), my mother was in a very toxic relationship, and I often acted as a mediator between them since I was a "third party" who could give "workaround" advice from seeing what they both were after. I do feel deep empathy, but for me it's more about understanding people's situation deeply from hearing stories and reading what they have been through, rather than some "emotional sixth sense" when others feel badly around me, since I can be quite oblivious. I tend to act as a "psychologist" of sorts around people I know, and I like giving advice on the forums. I always try to take into account prior behavior of the user before deciding how to phrase my response or even if it's worth it.

I will say that I do definitely manipulate people intentionally, but in my case it's not for my own ends, but rather to help people. Keep in mind that I'm a scientist, so "manipulate" doesn't have the same negative connotations in mind as it might for the general population. You are "manipulating" your toilet when you flush it for instance. I am not dishonest nor do I use deception when I manipulate people. I tend to say things as I see them and find that honesty tends to work best, but I package my advice in a way that makes people more likely to be receptive. I most often start out by acknowledging their feelings and value, before giving direct and to the point advice, often bringing up anecdotes from my own life or other people to help illustrate what I mean. I also try to be careful, and don't give out advice if I'm not sure on it, and especially not if it might make the situation worse or cause them harm.

I have quite dull emotions, but I also challenge myself and try to be on my best behavior. I am the one who reaches out to my friends most of the time and I say hi and introduce myself to strangers who are by themselves (and not preoccupied) in social gatherings. I also try to open myself up to others even though it's very difficult for me because I know it's the best way to bond, and it can be useful to get a second perspective on my emotions. I feel quite confident in my abilities, though I acknowledge mistakes when I notice them. Otherwise I likely wouldn't be commenting on this forum and giving advice, since I would feel like a hypocrite.

I've never seen any of the stuff I mentioned as emotional intelligence. I have a distaste of anything to do with intelligence, and have never seen myself as particularly smart by any metric. What matters most to me is how kind and considerate people are.

 

[Darkkin]

Is there an EI test link that you'd recommend, @Darkkin ?

Not online, but I have read Goleman's book Emotional Intelligence and done a few of the self scoring booklet tests out of morbid curiosity. I've also read The Highly Sensitive Person by Aron, which is also frequently referenced by Nerenberg's The Divergent Mind. That book takes a close look at late diagnosed, misdiagnosed hyper-empathetic autistics and other NDers.

 

[Outdated]

Hello, I was wondering if anybody could relate to this, and could possibly give me some advice:

I don't have any advice except to be able to tell you you're not alone. In my younger years I was very social and very successful because I was so sensitive to other people's emotions. My brother and sister are the same. My great grandmother said it was a pair of blessings, the gift of the gab and the gift of the glam.

There appears to be a subpopulation of autistics that have identified themselves as "empaths", and you may be one yourself.

This is how I identify myself as well. Where a lot of people make a mistake with me is in believing that empathy equals sympathy. It's often quite the opposite, I do know what they really feel and I'm often not happy about it.

 

[Progster]

Sometimes autism is like cranking up the volume on our senses and emotions... we often feel an experience the world very deeply, we are often more sensitive to and affected by the emotions of those around us. It can also be harder to move on from those emotions, whether they be positive or negative ones.

 

[Alexej]

So I've come to the conclusion that I am a highly emotionally intelligent individual. I feel emotions much more powerfully than most other people,

Just to give a different perspective - I would put myself at the other end of the spectrum from you on emotion. I am self diagnosed as alexithymic - so emotions are not something I am overly familiar with.
However, I am enjoying the conversation