Don't like Asperger's classed same as low functioning autism.

[Lemon Zing]

Why was my last thread featured?

 

[55853]

It’s a spectrum! There is so much diversity even within aspergers - everyone is uniquely diverse. No cookie cutter likeness. Just keep reading all the threads on this forum and you will find everything you need to relate to.

He/she has not been to this forum for over a year.

 

[Mary Anne]

There are many differences between low functioning autism and Asperger's. Asperger's doesn't have a low IQ, no speech delay as a child and low functioning autism doesn't have clumsy motor problems. I've seen videos of low functioning autism where they go into crazy rages hitting themselves and I don't feel I have anything in common with that.

Ok. I get you on this. Those videos freak me out too. But really understand that if you participate in these threads, you will meet a lot of people with exactly your very same issues. Trust me on this. Why not hang out here? The diversity of the spectrum is enormous, but we share some of the same issues. We learn from each other.

Are you wanting something different? Like social connections in your tangible life? All of us have some social connection issues. It’s difficult to socially connect. Now, there are loads of people that have just a touch of aspergers, or are half NT /half aspergers. They are all around you in society. They might not know they have aspergers. They might not want to devulge if they do. The point is you are not going to find an Aspergers Meet Up group nearby unless you start one yourself.

 

[WildCat]

Old thread, but the point's moot now. Asperger's is now getting a negative stigma due to Dr. Asperger's roots, and many countries are switching over to Autism Spectrum Disorder now. BFD huh?

To be honest here, I wouldn't want to be classed with someone who thinks like the OP does. Sorry, but this sort of thing really rubs my nerves. We do have more in common than what's on the surface, regardless of how it happened. Got deficits in socializing and communication as a start? Congrats, you're about on the same wavelength as the guy who can't speak and self-stimulates to calm himself, like it or not.

Maybe change that attitude to "how can I help him?" instead of "how can I separate myself from him?".

 

[Mary Anne]

Old thread, but the point's moot now. Asperger's is now getting a negative stigma due to Dr. Asperger's roots, and many countries are switching over to Autism Spectrum Disorder now. BFD huh?

To be honest here, I wouldn't want to be classed with someone who thinks like the OP does. Sorry, but this sort of thing really rubs my nerves. We do have more in common than what's on the surface, regardless of how it happened. Got deficits in socializing and communication as a start? Congrats, you're about on the same wavelength as the guy who can't speak and self-stimulates to calm himself, like it or not.

Maybe change that attitude to "how can I help him?" instead of "how can I separate myself from him?".

I understand you point, Wildcat, but I can understand the shock of someone newly diagnosed who goes off to do some research. Or the general public who thinks that ALL people with autism look and act like some of the lower functioning examples shown on Autism Speaks, or on YouTube.

There are even people on these forums that have been told they are “making it up” when they express their diagnosis. I have read this more than once. Because of the stereotypes, people are finding not only stigma, but are confused themselves.

 

[AO1501]

Old thread, but the point's moot now. Asperger's is now getting a negative stigma due to Dr. Asperger's roots, and many countries are switching over to Autism Spectrum Disorder now. ....

The move away from Asperger's and towards ASD was begun in the DSM-V in 2013, so significantly pre-dates any of the recent commentaries on Asperger's cooperation with the Nazis. It is far more a political change much more about helping deny potentially costly support in the US healthcare system than anything else. Asperger's Syndrome remains in the European diagnostic tool-bag for now at least.

But that is a rather moot point in itself as well, of course!

 

[DuckRabbit]

Plus I don't think anyone should be so eager to distance themselves from others with, what they consider, a lower mental ability just so they can look down at them with the rest of the people.

It's not a case of Aspergers distancing themselves from classic autism; it's rather a case of having an accurate understanding of each. What they both have in common: social-political deficits. What is different between them: only classic autism has cognitive deficits and maybe also language deficits as its defining characteristic(s).

We used to have dichotomous understanding of gender - as male OR female - as if I brains couldn't cope with too much nuance and cognitive complexity. Now it seems we have the same over-simplified thinking about disability, in that many societies are prepared to recognise physical disabilities and belatedly cognitive disabilities but it appears to be too much of a stretch to recognise social disabilities. Social disabilities are unfathomable to many - as evidenced by the readiness to conflate them with moral worth i.e., those who have social competence have moral worth; those who are socially unskilled are sub-human and deserve all the social opprobrium they get.

By this definition narcissists and sociopaths are the cream of society, i.e., worthy company. Society has a long way to go in not taking social skills for granted and looking more critically at those who have good social skills. Often those who have good social skills are decent, well-meaning people who make great contributions, but just as often those with good social skills are on the narcissistic side of the NT spectrum. That is, they have been treated all their lives as socially worthy and so have not bothered to develop any of the other human qualities that count such as truthfulness, honesty, humility, generosity, selflessness, commitment, reliability etc.

Social skills are like a drug, offering an immediate hit like cocaine, and bestowing glamour; whereas those other human qualities are more like eating your greens and exercising: essential to life but often considered boring and dull --- until we lose them or suddenly don't have them; then we realise just how important they are and we grow to appreciate them.

 

[Mary Anne]

The move away from Asperger's and towards ASD was begun in the DSM-V in 2013, so significantly pre-dates any of the recent commentaries on Asperger's cooperation with the Nazis. It is far more a political change much more about helping deny potentially costly support in the US healthcare system than anything else. Asperger's Syndrome remains in the European diagnostic tool-bag for now at least.

But that is a rather moot point in itself as well, of course!

Interesting theory. but since Aspergers is within Autism, how would this melding of the two different diagnosis into one spectrum “save money? “ As I see it, it’s all still going to be diagnosed and or treated whether it’s two separate things or one. What is your th8nking on this? That people will not get diagnosed? I think they will get diagnosed even more.

Any links to articles justifying your theories would be most welcomed.

 

[Judge]

Interesting theory. but since Aspergers is within Autism, how would this melding of the two different diagnosis into one spectrum “save money?

Consider the three diagnostic levels of the DSM-V. They all have a common denominator. They aren't geared so much to provide a positive diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder, but rather to determine a level of support one requires as a result of their Neurodiversity.

So what happens if you are an independent, high-functioning adult who has spent a lifetime learning to mask their autistic traits and behaviors? Then you're at the mercy of a compassionate medical professional to take it all into consideration, or a medical bureaucrat who will simply pronounce you non-autistic. Not because you aren't on the spectrum, but rather because your particular case does not meet the support required by the three diagnostic tiers of the DSM-V. Saving money between health insurers, government and politicians under the Affordable Care Act as a result of being completely filtered out of the process.

Am I on the spectrum of autism? I believe so. Do I require support? Absolutely not.

Level 1 - Requiring Support

"Without supports in place, deficits in social communication cause noticeable impairments. Difficulty initiating social interactions, and clear examples of atypical or unsuccessful response to social overtures of others. May appear to have decreased interest in social interactions. For example, a person who is able to speak in full sentences and engages in communication but whose to- and-fro conversation with others fails, and whose attempts to make friends are odd and typically unsuccessful. Inflexibility of behavior causes significant interference with functioning in one or more contexts. Difficulty switching between activities. Problems of organization and planning hamper independence."

 

[AO1501]

Interesting theory. but since Aspergers is within Autism, how would this melding of the two different diagnosis into one spectrum “save money? “ As I see it, it’s all still going to be diagnosed and or treated whether it’s two separate things or one. What is your th8nking on this? That people will not get diagnosed? I think they will get diagnosed even more.

Any links to articles justifying your theories would be most welcomed.

It saves money simply by making a diagnosis harder to obtain - in the US at least - at the high-functioning end of the spectrum. It fits the needs of healthcare providers (ie, insurance companies) because they don't want to spend the money they otherwise don't think they have to.

The rate of diagnosis in HFA has slowed notably since 2013. It isn't coincidence.

 

[Mary Anne]

It saves money simply by making a diagnosis harder to obtain - in the US at least - at the high-functioning end of the spectrum. It fits the needs of healthcare providers (ie, insurance companies) because they don't want to spend the money they otherwise don't think they have to.

The rate of diagnosis in HFA has slowed notably since 2013. It isn't coincidence.

Well, maybe Insurance feels if people are so “high functioning”they don’t need any “diagnosis”...OR YOU CAN PAY OUT OF POCKET. Just like Lasic surgery ...even if a person actually needs it to improve vision (not cosmetic reasons), insurance still will not pay for it. Not ever. There are many such distinctions made in health insurance. Another example is when people lose a huge amount of weight and then have all that loose hanging skin. It’s unsightly -insurance companies use that as the reason to refuse to pay for it -due to being classified as “cosmetic surgery.” Despite all the rashes / skin irritations and discomfort these clients have told me they are suffering through!

So, really, this is nothing new. Insurance companies don’t pay for everything. Why should we expect a high functioning person to have insurance pay for something many would believe is not neccessary?

 

[Frostee]

I agree. I have always identified as having Aspergers as I find that this summarises my position in life, fairly well.

For me putting us all under the one umbrella is sort of awkward and uncomfortable.

I have been around people who are on the lower end or even the middle end of the Spectrum and I cannot relate to them, at all.

There are characteristics and traits that do not run with me in this section of the Spectrum e.g no talking, banging heads, severe sensory issues.

 

[Mary Anne]

Consider the three diagnostic levels of the DSM-V. They all have a common denominator. They aren't geared so much to provide a positive diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder, but rather to determine a level of support one requires as a result of their Neurodiversity.

So what happens if you are an independent, high-functioning adult who has spent a lifetime learning to mask their autistic traits and behaviors? Then you're at the mercy of a compassionate medical professional to take it all into consideration, or a medical bureaucrat who will simply pronounce you non-autistic. Not because you aren't on the spectrum, but rather because your particular case does not meet the support required by the three diagnostic tiers of the DSM-V. Saving money between health insurers, government and politicians under the Affordable Care Act as a result of being completely filtered out of the process.

Am I on the spectrum of autism? I believe so. Do I require support? Absolutely not.

Level 1 - Requiring Support

"Without supports in place, deficits in social communication cause noticeable impairments. Difficulty initiating social interactions, and clear examples of atypical or unsuccessful response to social overtures of others. May appear to have decreased interest in social interactions. For example, a person who is able to speak in full sentences and engages in communication but whose to- and-fro conversation with others fails, and whose attempts to make friends are odd and typically unsuccessful. Inflexibility of behavior causes significant interference with functioning in one or more contexts. Difficulty switching between activities. Problems of organization and planning hamper independence."

I think the DSM did it to make diagnosis simpler, not to “save money.” I think that science is EXTREMELY interested in the high end of the autism spectrum. They want to find more people up there! Big business also wants to hire high functioning Aspies. Of coarse there are subtleties in every high functioning case. This is still being explored and science will be studying the nuances of the top of spectrum for decades to come.

The Mental health field is geared to helping those who need support. Clearly, high functioning people are going to have difficulties with diagnosis, whatever their issues are, because their dysfunction might not be clear and noticeable. Even the person with Aspergers might not know if they have dysfunction.

I might ask you, why would a person seek out a diagnosis? Scientists are still studying Aspergers, and nothing is permanent as far as the DSM. There would be this fine line of debate, if a high functioning person with aspergers was on trial in a court system- proof of some disability might be a deciding factor in say, a criminal case. Then a diagnosis would indeed be more challenging. Clearly it’s been written that the spectrum is so vast and at times extremely subtle in Aspergers. It’s still unknown, so why not lump it in on the spectrum?

 

[Judge]

I might ask you, why would a person seek out a diagnosis? Scientists are still studying Aspergers, and nothing is permanent as far as the DSM. There would be this fine line of debate, if a high functioning person with aspergers was on trial in a court system- proof of some disability might be a deciding factor in say, a criminal case. Then a diagnosis would indeed be more challenging. Clearly it’s been written that the spectrum is so vast and at times extremely subtle in Aspergers. It’s still unknown, so why not lump it in on the spectrum?

I've always been ok with the spectrum aspect of it all. However it's the specific nature of the three diagnostic levels that I object to. Where an objective diagnosis is that much more complex if you're not in need of support.

And it appears momentum for diagnostics protocols favors the DSM-V as opposed to other protocols like the ICD-10. Sure it can change and evolve...but by how and when, who can tell ? Until then, I'm not a fan.

 

[Mary Anne]

I've always been ok with the spectrum aspect of it all. However it's the specific nature of the three diagnostic levels that I object to. Where an objective diagnosis is that much more complex if you're not in need of support.

And it appears momentum for diagnostics protocols favors the DSM-V as opposed to other protocols like the ICD-10. Sure it can change and evolve...but by how and when, who can tell ?

If “you're not in need of support,” then understand that they are not ready (yet) to establish criteria for those with subtle nuances. Please give them time to study high functioning Autism further.

 

[Judge]

Please give them time to study high functioning Autism further.

We may both be dead by then.

Sadly I suspect science has a very long way to go in this regard.

Not to mention what Big Pharma probably thinks of high functioning autism. That its R&D doesn't have a sufficient profit potential.

 

[Nitro]

DSM IV in PDF form: https://justines2010blog.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/dsm-iv.pdf


DSM 5 in PDF form:
https://ia800805.us.archive.org/1/items/DSM-5/DSM-5.pdf


I read IV in it's entirety and skimmed III & 5

I see no reason why any of you can't read over the sections in question and skip over the parts that don't apply.

 

[Mary Anne]

We may both be dead by then.

Sadly I suspect science has a very long way to go in this regard.

Not to mention what Big Pharma probably thinks of high functioning autism. That it doesn't have a sufficient profit potential.

Hah! I am sure once they can isolate all the negative symptoms, they will come up with something! ;-)

I also ask why do people want a diagnosis? Will knowing be an advantage or disadvantage? It’s not like you can change it.

 

[Judge]

Hah! I am sure once they can isolate all the negative symptoms, they will come up with something! ;-)

I also ask why do people want a diagnosis? Will knowing be an advantage or disadvantage? It’s not like you can change it.

I suppose you'd have to ask them individually. Many may seek entitlements that ultimately require a formal diagnosis. Others may seek peace of mind just knowing who and what they are. And then a few like myself just realistically accept that a formal diagnosis doesn't matter. After all, it's not a "badge of honor". Nor does autism necessarily define a person.

 

[Mary Anne]

I suppose you'd have to ask them individually. Many may seek entitlements that ultimately require a formal diagnosis. Others may seek peace of mind just knowing who and what they are. And then a few like myself just realistically accept that a formal diagnosis doesn't matter. After all, it's not a "badge of honor". Nor does autism necessarily define a person.

It’s pretty difficult to be awarded “entitlements” (benefits, or law suits) f high functioning. At least in the USA. Wanting to know for “peace of mind,” is looked upon the same as having cosmetic surgery.....not neccessary for insurance to pay. I understand that.