Embarrassed dad needs help with Asperger son

[Gerontius]

locate an autism-competent therapist, not ABA.

An excellent point! For many reasons ABA is considered abusive in the autism community. I've never had to deal with it but A.B.A. is basically training like training dogs--the thing is, with autism, it is like water. You cannot compress it, and attempts to compress it will result in either directing it in a different direction or causing destruction. People who try to train autistics out of "stimming" (leg bouncing, body rocking, etc.,) often create whole new stim behaviours or worse.

So training Junior like training a dog probably won't do it; we're surprisingly reason-oriented. The reason we seem "dumb" is that frequently autistics are prone to cooking up reasons based on patterns alone that don't make any sense to anyone else. I have a lot of really stupid little taboos that seem logical at first "don't take the garbage out--they'll see you" and I have to do DIY cognitive behavior therapy to fix it. "That's nonsense; you live in an apartment building and the neighbors also have to go to the garbage dumpster."

 

[jleeb05]

I agree with those who suggest that there's likely a sensory issue that he experiences with sitting on the toilet. Whether it's the mirror, the feel of the toilet seat, splash of the water, etc., only he knows. Though I think you can probably rule out an olfactory issue.

It also seems that there is an element of control. Take Freud with a grain of salt but in psychoanalysis, the "anal stage" is all about control. It's defined by what is essentially a power struggle between child and parent. The fact that he has said doesn't want you to try to change him, makes me think this might be about his autonomy. Perhaps, the move made him feel powerless and upset, and literally, one of the only things he has control over is his bowel movements. Maybe it's also a way for him to express his displeasure with you.

That said, I definitely think it might be helpful to get some professional help. If this is a power struggle, he's certainly winning. He literally has you picking up his poop off the floor. The spectrum is wide and people present differently but as a whole, someone with Aspergers/Level 1 autism should be capable of using the toilet by age 12. You know he is capable because he's done it before.

This is behavior seen in more severe forms of autism. Unless he has an accompanying intellectual impairment, I don't think Asperger's is a sufficient excuse for someone his age to bypass the toilet and poop on the floor. I'm guessing that like most aspies, he has average or above-average intelligence and knows right from wrong. So while there may be some sensory issues at play, I have to imagine he's capable of working with you all to resolve them.

I hope this doesn't come across as criticism. Clearly, you care deeply about your son and are working very hard to make sure he feels supported. That is very admirable. However, it seems that you may be giving him a pass because of his diagnosis and I'm not sure that you should. I think you can expect, if not demand, more of him. All children test their limits. I can only imagine the difficulty in finding that sweet spot but there must be a balance between being nurturing/supportive and setting firm limits for your son. I'm not going to even pretend to be qualified enough to tell you where that sweet spot is or to suggest how this might be resolved with as little conflict and trauma as possible. But I imagine there are professionals who can work with you all to find it. Best of luck!

 

[watersprite]

Does he help clean his poop away?

I’m wondering if he finds the interaction, control and/or attention important, when someone else cleans up his poop.

Has he been getting the same amount of attention and time from mom & dad since moving?

What other changes have occurred?

 

[Skittlebisquit]

Yes. What's interesting is he will go pee here in the new house on the toilet, but not poop.

Another poster mentioned the mirror. It's worth noting the mirror is 90 degrees to the left and large in the new bathroom so you can clearly see yourself from the waist up, that might be a factor. As well as there is a door (with blinds) right next to the toilet, so you can kind of see out the side crack a bit when seated on the toilet. I thought the door might be an issue in the past but he's never admitted it is one way or the other. The mirror is something I didn't think of.

So I think a pretty frilly curtain over the window with the blind and tack up a bedsheet obscuring the mirror that he can see while seated. Maybe put paper over the mirror, if he can see his face while sitting down that could inspire fear. Autistic folk often respond to texture as well. Also maybe replace toilet?

Is it one of those old fashioned round ones that you have now? Those can cause genital contact with the front part, that could be frightening. Also look at the wall the tp dispenser is mounted on, like things close to what the eye sees when seated.

 

[SusanLR]

Thinking back to my odd experience with toilet training, I can tell you some of the ways I thought.

Trust.
An issue with toilet training.
For some reason I did not trust my Mother telling me to go #2 in the toilet.
In my mind, the diaper was the correct place to let go and to be told now I should go outside
the diaper seemed wrong.
When she tried to get me to use the toilet, I would cry and run to get a diaper.
I thought she was tricking me so she could scold me or punish me for not going in the diaper.

Now with a 12 yo that has previously been using the toilet, this is probably not an issue.
But, for what ever it is worth, I thought I would share this with you to see if there could be
some type of trust issue.
You mentioned embaressment. Perhaps he feels he is hiding something he finds shame in?
Having his own little area might feel he is preventing being seen.
I've never liked to think anyone sees me going #1 or #2 all my life.
Yet I am not ashamed of nudity around others and enjoy being a naturist when I can.

Ok, now that I've probably got you thinking I'm really out there, let's jump forward to later in life
like your son is now 12.
The move would be very disturbing to me at that age.
We tend to like things familiar and don't accept change well.
You mentioned depression and how his main thing is the computer.

When in deep depression or feeling unfamiliar with surroundings,
I had a tendency to not want to move from my safe area that I had in my own corner of my room.
His going in the towell reminded me of the safety of the diaper experience.
Now that he has picked one spot, that spot could represent "his" zone and he doesn't want to
move to a different place to do something he may find repulsive.

If it were me having that difficulty even at his age, I would be wanting a commode or potty
put in that exact spot he uses. He wouldn't have to go to the bathroom or get up in the open on
the toilet.
Once he got used to the commode or potty sitting where he wants to go, he would feel used to it.
Then it might be easier to go from there to moving it or getting him to go to the bathroom area.
Change and upset can freeze us with anxiety.
He wouldn't have to leave his safe zone with a potty chair.
And working with him to help clean it afterwards might be found to be rewarding.

Just some thoughts from an autistic mind. Trying to put myself in his place.
Hope some of the suggestions here will help.
Another autistic issue is to never shame him or scold. Do what will put him at ease and feel
love and trust. Good luck.

 

[Suzette]

When she tried to get me to use the toilet, I would cry and run to get a diaper.
I thought she was tricking me so she could scold me or punish me for not going in the diaper.

This is interesting. My son was fully potty trained at 4 but then he suddenly decided that he was not ready to give up diapers. (He had found the old ones in a closet) I told him I would buy him diapers but he had to be responsible for changing them himself.
He did change his own diapers but then refused to use the toilet at all. It was the carer at his daycare that got him out of huggies. He just refused to take any direction from mom or dad on the issue.

 

[ucrenegade]

I use tablets when I want my son to do something I'll let him have his fire tablet. I take it away if he is doing something he should not.

 

[Dadwhoneedshelp]

compass direction? former vs current?

So in our old house, and then the apartment we lived in for 2 years prior to moving across country - both in which he went on the toilet with some coaxing - both faced west when sitting on the toilet. In our new house you face north.

 

[Streetwise]

This may help you as a neurotypical, your son doesn't have an illness or disease, that needs medicine, he may have an illness, but autism is a neurological difference, if your mindset changes! to we don't want to force him to be a neurotypical robot ,you can learn how he can be accepted as is his right ,it will take time neurotypicals instinctively want everything neurodiverse to be changed to neurotypical, it's impossible to be neurotypical! if you are not .

 

[unperson]

So in our old house, and then the apartment we lived in for 2 years prior to moving across country - both in which he went on the toilet with some coaxing - both faced west when sitting on the toilet. In our new house you face north.

The reason I asked was I watched a video a few months ago on why dogs circle when they poop, and other dog poop behaviour (not trying to offend with the comparison) and one of the things they mention was that dogs pretty commonly face north when pooping so, that's why I asked about the compass directions. I guess the porta potty/camping toilet (someone else suggested) that faces west might be worth a try, you can drive him to the dump point and get him to empty the reservoir and hose it out maybe? Just for instructional purposes. Good luck dad.

 

[Crossbreed]

I guess the porta potty/camping toilet (someone else suggested) that faces west might be worth a try, you can drive him to the dump point and get him to empty the reservoir and hose it out maybe? Just for instructional purposes.

A commode has lower maintenance (and can transition back to the toilet).

 

[Dadwhoneedshelp]

I really appreciate everyone's responses. Lots of things to think about.

 

[SDRSpark]

Everyone else has great advice that I can't really improve on, but one additional thing crossed my mind - do you have one of those turbo flush toilets by any chance? The "advertises the ability to flush multiple billiard balls and if you drop your phone it's definitely gone" types?

They're becoming more common, there's one installed in my basement bathroom. They're a lot more um...intense (both in sound and movement) than the old school type that is more common. I could see that freaking him out.

 

[Crossbreed]

"advertises the ability to flush multiple billiard balls and if you drop your phone it's definitely gone"

Impressive...!

 

[SDRSpark]

Impressive...!

I haven't tested it and I'm not going to. LOL I'm quite certain it can make many things vanish in an instant, however.

 

[KimS]

My daughter absolutely hated sitting on the toilet - even as a tween she'd wait until the last minute then yeet off the second she was done without sparing a second to flush. I think it was a sensory issue with the feel of the seats and maybe flushing sounds and/or the bright lights. My ex-husband hit on a solution that worked for both houses. We had set strict restraints on phone use, but we started offering unlimited time so as long as she was on the toilet. The phone offered enough pleasant distraction to help her handle whatever was causing distress. Pretty quickly she switched to perching on the throne for an hour at a time reading fan fiction.

edited to add: My husband reminded me - Kate was originally terrified of toilets because her sociopath stepbrother told her snakes and alligators live in the pipes, and that phobia stuck for a long time. Your son might have similar fears.

 

[RobZombiefan]

I'll try not to make this wall a text. Hi, new member here, I'm not quite sure where to turn to, and I know this might be be better for a different forum area, but I'm pretty desperate here and need all the views I can get.


I have a 12 yo son with Aspergers. He's a really good kid, but has been struggling with some depression the last 2 years since we moved across the country for my job (the shutdown also probably hurt just as much if not more); he's gotten quite a bit better recently but not yet thriving. He's always had some shame surrounding going #2 - and just going to the bathroom stuff in general, which is mostly from my wife and I not knowing how to parent a child with Aspergers when he was young - but after we moved he absolutely refuses to go #2 on the toilet. This is incredibly embarrassing to admit. Yes, you read that right, he hasn't gone #2 on the toilet for two years now. He was going onto a towel when we first moved, now he won't even do that, he just goes onto the floor in one little area. We clean whenever it happens, but obviously it's gross and unsanitary. Like I said, this is incredibly embarrassing to admit that we've not been able to solve this.


I'm in so deep at this point I'm not sure how to get out. Therapy is an option but probably not for a few months, not to mention I'm not sure how we'd get him to go, it's darn need impossible to get him to go anywhere due to his anxiety. I feel like we've tried basically everything at this point concerning the #2 on the toilet problem. Talking, rewards, trying to assuage his fears, which he won't really tell us what they are because he "doesn't want us to try to change him". Obviously we're not trying to change him as a person, but going #2 on the toilet is a life skill he absolutely needs, but he doesn't seem to get it regardless of the approach we take. So unfortunately we've just been enabling, and I'm running out of time so I know we need to deal with this issue now before he gets too old. The only thing of significant value for him is being able to go on the computer, so that's about the only thing I can use for a reward at this point. I'm worried that if I try to do something like "you can only use the computer now if you go #2 on the toilet" that will create a huge rift and send him back down into depression and he won't respond to us about anything at all. The last thing we need is for him to emotionally shutdown again. So, I feel stuck.


Has anyone faced something similar? I'm open to hearing all ideas. I realize I've failed him in this area, but I want to be better, just not sure what to do now. I love my son and just want to help him.

Get your son hypnotized. I'm sure after he will go on the throne.