Empathy

[Judge]

I've never thought being selective about empathy would negate the ability to be empathetic.

Or do most NTs see empathy only on some grand "all or nothing" scale ?

 

[KassieMac]

Pedantic Pet Peeve alert: I was about to post a rant about the use of the word 'empathetic' that went like this -- The word is 'empathic'! But, being the pedantic Aspie that I am, I first looked it up to be sure I wasn't falsely correcting anyone. What I found is that both 'empathic' and 'empathetic' are valid words, with the exact same definition. I freely admit that I was wrong, 'empathetic' is a perfectly valid word.

That being said, I still don't like it. To me, the fact that it includes the word 'pathetic' has negative connotations that just grate on my nerves. So instead of this being a correction, consider it a Public Service Announcement: The word 'empathetic' can be replaced with the equally valid 'empathic'. #TheMoreYouKnow

I promise not to rant about this, or to correct anyone, and thanks for helping me learn something I didn't know.

 

[Judge]

Pedantic Pet Peeve alert: I was about to post a rant about the use of the word 'empathetic' that went like this -- The word is 'empathic'! But, being the pedantic Aspie that I am, I first looked it up to be sure I wasn't falsely correcting anyone. What I found is that both 'empathic' and 'empathetic' are valid words, with the exact same definition. I freely admit that I was wrong, 'empathetic' is a perfectly valid word.

That being said, I still don't like it. To me, the fact that it includes the word 'pathetic' has negative connotations that just grate on my nerves. So instead of this being a correction, consider it a Public Service Announcement: The word 'empathetic' can be replaced with the equally valid 'empathic'. #TheMoreYouKnow

I promise not to rant about this, or to correct anyone, and thanks for helping me learn something I didn't know.

Wordsmiths are allowed here as far as I know. Rant away... it is interesting to discuss the origins of words. Their use, intent and potential connotations.

 

[KassieMac]

Wordsmiths are allowed here as far as I know. Rant away... it is interesting to discuss the origins of words. Their use, intent and potential connotations.

Thanks! I also thought some here might be amused by my little journey of discovery.

 

[Judge]

Thanks! I also thought some here might be amused by my little journey of discovery.

A learning experience for me too. I always thought "empathic" pertained to the sensitivities and emotions of an actual empath.

 

[KassieMac]

A learning experience for me too. I always thought "empathic" pertained to the sensitivities and emotions of an actual empath.

I sense a fellow Trekkie!! Permission to enter The Bridge?

 

[Judge]

I sense a fellow Trekkie!! Permission to enter The Bridge?

Soooooooooooooooo guilty as charged.

 

[KassieMac]

Confession Time: I haven't seen all of TOS, but I have seen all of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all but the first movie. (I even made it halfway through Enterprise!) So the term Empath invokes the image of Counselor Troi (sometimes in that ridiculous first-season 'uniform' ... what they won't do for ratings ... hehehe).

 

[Judge]

Confession Time: I haven't seen all of TOS, but I have seen all of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all but the first movie. (I even made it halfway through Enterprise!) So the term Empath invokes the image of Counselor Troi (sometimes in that ridiculous first-season 'uniform' ... what they won't do for ratings ... hehehe).

Long before Deanna Troi there was Gem.

The Empath (episode) - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

 

[KassieMac]

Long before Deanna Troi there was Gem.

The Empath (episode) - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

The friends who first brought me onboard knew TOS intimately ... and they were always happy to recite "The Good Parts Version" (extra points if you can identify that tangent ... and no, as a matter of fact I did not cross the streams!)

 

[Judge]

The friends who first brought me onboard knew TOS intimately ... and they were always happy to recite "The Good Parts Version" (extra points if you can identify that tangent ... and no, as a matter of fact I did not cross the streams!)

LOL...too cryptic for me!

 

[Manuheleku]

Confession Time: I haven't seen all of TOS, but I have seen all of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and all but the first movie. (I even made it halfway through Enterprise!) So the term Empath invokes the image of Counselor Troi (sometimes in that ridiculous first-season 'uniform' ... what they won't do for ratings ... hehehe).

I was always an original series guy until I discovered Voyager. I felt Janeway was a lot like Kirk but the scenarios that the Voyager got into were a lot more interesting. TNG and DS9 were OK, couldn't stand Enterprise, it was just too much yelling at the TV at the top of my lungs "the transporter, it's OK, use the transporter!"

 

[Eva Bonnes]

I appreciate everyone's input greatly. I'm new to this forum and new to diagnosis. The specialist looked at me and said "Children who have aspergers often have parents who have aspergers" she said this slow and stared at me uncomfortably as she said it then said "you didn't know you have aspergers?" What ? What ? I'm 52 no ! Honestly, I didn't even know what it was until last week and I'm still researching and struggling with all the information. The whole empathy thing baffles me I simply feel unsure of what it even means anymore. And changing the subject up a bit I would like to ask everyone what good it does to be diagnosed. How does it change anything for the better ?

 

[KassieMac]

LOL...too cryptic for me!

Teeheehee … have you seen The Princess Bride? They actually released a book credited to S Morganstern, The Princess Bride: The Good Parts Version. As a teen in the 80s, I hadn't yet figured out it was all part of the story, so I actually looked for the unabridged version. Where was snopes.com when I needed it!

Cross the streams: what could it be but Ghostbusters!

Ok, I'll come back to the 21st century now. My fax machine was out of paper anyway.

 

[KassieMac]

I appreciate everyone's input greatly. I'm new to this forum and new to diagnosis. The specialist looked at me and said "Children who have aspergers often have parents who have aspergers" she said this slow and stared at me uncomfortably as she said it then said "you didn't know you have aspergers?" What ? What ? I'm 52 no ! Honestly, I didn't even know what it was until last week and I'm still researching and struggling with all the information. The whole empathy thing baffles me I simply feel unsure of what it even means anymore. And changing the subject up a bit I would like to ask everyone what good it does to be diagnosed. How does it change anything for the better ?

Hi Eva!

To put it in perspective, I wish I'd been born to Aspies. Then I might not have been blamed for being bullied, or told I should be more like <fill in the blank>. Any understanding of why I'm so 'different' would've been a blessing. So just the fact that you're here asking these questions … Kudos to you!!

Personally, I'm seeking diagnosis because I've been forced out of a few jobs due to intolerance, and the fact that they valued the popularity contest over productivity & loyalty. I need aid to get back on my feet, and if it happens again I'll be able to invoke the ADA for legal recourse. It's a very personal decision, depending on how Aspergers affects you & what your situation is. Hope this helps.

And again, I'm so touched that you care enough to ask how best to understand & help someone. YAAAYYY!!

 

[Daniel]

I said this on another thread, but it's relevant here... I've wondered if what Simon Baron Cohen thinks is "Theory of Mind" in NTs is actually just an NT's convenient ability to be able to "read" a person based on very superficial factors. And what they do is just project themselves onto others, and because they have the convenience of finding people who are similar to them on the surface, they just happen to get it mostly right a lot of the time because most people aren't all that complex, and they just follow the same cultural scripts.

I wonder if "Theory of Mind" is just birds of a feather flocking together. Whereas, if you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism.

For example, I lived for a decade in mostly blue collar towns. Now I work in a job in an urban metropolis with yuppie elites, and I see no use of "Theory of Mind" when they talk about those people from those towns--just scorn and judgment. Yuppies really believe their lifestyles and opinions make them better than others. (Most of 'em, anyway...I find that that's actually how I define "yuppie"!)

I've found the Baron Cohen type of thinking to be defining people based on what they are not. A form of pathologizing, where the "inflicted" have an issue because they make others uncomfortable. Because some people don't fit some imaginary ideal.

I'd be more inclined to respect his cousin Sacha's opinion!

 

[KassieMac]

I said this on another thread, but it's relevant here... I've wondered if what Simon Baron Cohen thinks is "Theory of Mind" in NTs is actually just an NT's convenient ability to be able to "read" a person based on very superficial factors. And what they do is just project themselves onto others, and because they have the convenience of finding people who are similar to them on the surface, they just happen to get it mostly right a lot of the time because most people aren't all that complex, and they just follow the same cultural scripts.

I wonder if "Theory of Mind" is just birds of a feather flocking together. Whereas, if you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism.

For example, I lived for a decade in mostly blue collar towns. Now I work in a job in an urban metropolis with yuppie elites, and I see no use of "Theory of Mind" when they talk about those people from those towns--just scorn and judgment. Yuppies really believe their lifestyles and opinions make them better than others. (Most of 'em, anyway...I find that that's actually how I define "yuppie"!)

I've found the Baron Cohen type of thinking to be defining people based on what they are not. A form of pathologizing, where the "inflicted" have an issue because they make others uncomfortable. Because some people don't fit some imaginary ideal.

I'd be more inclined to respect his cousin Sacha's opinion!

I'm pretty new to all these studies, 'experts', & their different positions, but I noticed years ago that the people who don't understand me are extremely quick to accuse me of exactly what they do to me. A couple of times it was something they were actively doing in that very moment … would've made for great sitcom material, but of course they never behave this way when anyone else is watching. Once I realized how completely random my parents' reactions were I learned to rely on my own logic and sense of right & wrong. I can't tell you how many times I'd try to have a civil, logical conversation with Mom where she'd end up hysterically shrieking "Calm down!!" Would've been funny if it wasn't true.

 

[Judge]

Teeheehee … have you seen The Princess Bride? They actually released a book credited to S Morganstern, The Princess Bride: The Good Parts Version. As a teen in the 80s, I hadn't yet figured out it was all part of the story, so I actually looked for the unabridged version. Where was snopes.com when I needed it!

Cross the streams: what could it be but Ghostbusters!

Ok, I'll come back to the 21st century now. My fax machine was out of paper anyway.

Nope..never saw the Princess Bride. I may be one of the few people on the planet who never did. I never saw all of the Lord Of The Rings films beyond the first one. Heresy, no doubt..lol. Yeah, whatever you do don't cross the streams per Egon (RIP). That would be very bad! I remember...lol. I've also quoted Ernie Hudson a few times myself! But that's another story...

 

[Ste11aeres]

I read something Tony Atwood said. (remember that the same word can have different meanings depending on who's using it.)
He said that the original criteria for Aspergers specified lack of empathy. He said that this can be misinterpreted (his word) as meaning that Aspies don't care about people. He then said that it actually meant, instead, that Aspies may have difficulty processing emotions, or processing the emotions of others.

 

[King_Oni]

I read something Tony Atwood said. (remember that the same word can have different meanings depending on who's using it.)
He said that the original criteria for Aspergers specified lack of empathy. He said that this can be misinterpreted (his word) as meaning that Aspies don't care about people. He then said that it actually meant, instead, that Aspies may have difficulty processing emotions, or processing the emotions of others.

It might be worth noting that even if you show empathy, especially if you're on the spectrum, the way you show it can be misinterpreted as well. Not everyone shows empathy in the same way. Body language as well as verbal communication tend to be issues for some, but that doesn't mean that none of us care.

Perhaps it's one of these things a psychologist should be well versed in recognizing if it's an atypical emphatic response from someone on the spectrum. So far, I've heard enough stories about emphatic aspies who ended up explaining themselves as if they had to defend themselves on some kind of accusation.