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Equal rights for men and women? Can it really be that way?

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epath13

the Fool.The Magician.The...
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When I was a kid it brought me a little bit of comfort that I was growing up to be a woman not a man. I knew I had those weird brain issues and that if remain unresolved they would prevent me from leading independent life. My parents set the bar way up high for me, but knowing that I was still a woman and might get married one day, get kids and rely on my husband, they believed I didn't really HAVE to reach all those goals. For me it's always been very stressful because I didn't believe it's fair but at the same time I knew being independent was incredibly difficult for me so being a woman was sort of very convenient. I believe in equality. But how to set the right rules. For instance, sometimes I wonder if moms do better jobs with kids or its not true, probably not true. I don't know, there has to be some sort of a balance based on a person's abilities not on a person's gender. But if I was a man, or even in a homosexual relationship that might presume more equality than heterosexual one, would I be able to step up more at my current level of development (I'm still learning and have a plan to become fully independent so I can be an equal partner to my husband) and my answer is NO.

What are your thoughts?
 
I don't have a definite answer to your question. But I've often thought of it, because I'm a married stay at home mom, and I don't see how I could have made it in the workforce. I work my tail off here, but I set my schedule, things are more flexible, and sometimes my husband can help me with my jobs if I am sick. I worked from the age of 15 until I married at twenty, but it was hard, and the direction I was headed- Early Childhood Education- in college turned out to be the wrong direction for me. I felt intimidated by the other teachers (not that they meant to intimidate me) and confused by all the noise, and didn't perform very well. I got sick and had to drop out of college and quit my job, and that changed the course of my life. So yeah, those are my thoughts.
 
There is no problem at all with having the woman working outside while the man performs the "stay at home dad" role. If it makes sense economically, I don't see why not. Of course, this depends more on the individual person, not the gender.
 
@ epath13: You seem to have a definition of equality that is somewhat skewered. Earning an income (even if it is the same as your husband's) is not what makes you, as a woman, 'equal to' a man. That only means that you are earning income. The old 'bread-winner rules the roost' attitude is rapidly going the way of the shoe button hook in North America. For a while, equal meant being able to do exactly what men did because they set the standards & they viewed their position & sex as the loftier & valued one. Most religions (in their more conservative forms) promote this as some kind of warped 'ideal' today. Women entering into marriage in these religions are expected to be obedient & submissive & the husband becomes so-called 'head' of the household & a leader in all things.

I am a grown adult & while a partner in life is nice, if I needed a leader I'd move to North Korea & Kim Jong-Un. As for a head, I already have one. This offensive term comes from a historical belief that as the weaker sex, we were incapable of reasonable, rational thought: our 'female parts' rendered us prone to hysteria (& other weaknesses).

Without launching into a protracted history lecture, the 1900s brought the notion that woman can do anything a man could. Funny, the reverse was never even considered since we women were considered only good for trivial menial tasks so what man would want to 'lower' himself into doing.

The entire notion that the ability to do 'what men do' or be just like them is being seriously deconstructed as the implications of this are offensive on many levels. This trend paralleled the movement towards racial equality as well. At first, for blacks too had been brainwashed into thinking that 'equality' meant 'as much the same as' white people. White society decided what one should look like, what clothing, hairstyles, ways of speaking & everything else about a person, was to be 'valued', normal & legitimized. Women were written out of history with few exceptions (ALL of whom were in traditionally male roles & the same was true for non-whites). In the 70s, BOTH black people in the USA & White women began asking important questions. Blacks began, for the first time, seeing the beauty in & appreciating their natural hair textures from afros to curls for example & most stopped striving to lighten their skin (again, there are some hold-outs).

White female academics, psychologists & sociologists began asking why do male roles define what is of value? Motherhood, raising children & caring for a household ARE hard work, ARE demanding of the intellect & judgement, society (and many HUSBANDS) depended on these women, for centuries, to prop them & their careers up. So many women were right there farming beside their husbands THEN had to go inside & do everything for the kids & the house while the 'Bread Winner' sat on his @$$ & waited for dinner to be served, the dishes to be removed & the kids to be sent off to bed. These academics began digging up women's history (herstory) & raising society's awareness of the importance of what women do outside of the traditionally male workforce.

Today, I think the # of 'stay at home' dads has shot up to 30%. Approx 50% of all medical grads are now female. Men are becoming nurses & nannies (mannies) & daycare workers (one of the finest I ever met is a man with 30 yrs experience!). Another problem with the delusion that whomever earns the most money is the most valued & important is this: who makes more money a neurosurgeon or Madonna? Who earns the most money: a supermodel or a coal miner who risks his life daily? Who earns more: the president of the USA or a Mafia Don? A drug czar (or czarina- these exist too!) will earn more next week that your doctor will over the next 6 months. Clearly, the ability to earn money should not be the determining trait of whom society values.

Many women earning incomes fast learned that this did not render them equals in the home. Their husbands & male partners continues to be domineering, controlling, abusive in many cases or (most commonly) expected the wife to do BOTH the bread-winning AND the bread-baking, serving & cleaning up after. Women in most households wound up drained, depressed & with 2 jobs! Among younger men, many can cook, clean, iron & handle a baby or child admirably well. Progress IS being made & guys are learning that when they get off their @$$es at home, they are NOT pitching in or 'helping out' as if they are generously assisting an overwhelmed woman with what ought to be HER tasks: they are growing up & being competent well-rounded adults who pull their own weight.

When the woman 'stays at home', that no longer has to mean that the 1800s are back & all home tasks are hers by default. HE gets to work from 9-5: why does SHE work 24/7? Young couples need to seriously discuss & plan divisions of labour & the way the home will be run BEFORE saying I DO or run the risk of finding themselves very dissatisfied: her for being turned into a drudge & a subservient & him for not thinking he should have to do anything more than 9-5 & expecting to control everything & be served hand & foot.

The old (& rather dumb & impossible) conception of 'equality' meaning 'the same as' is giving way to a more balanced notion of EQUITY. An example is maternity leave AND paternity leave: after all, women do not make these babies alone. Trying to achieve pay equity means that work of EQUAL VALUE should be am equitable pay scale. There is a lot of work to be done here but as more jobs see more women & men doing similar tasks, pay equity will slowly ensue. Also misogynistic religious interpretations need to be swept into the dustbin of history. When I think of displays of extreme poor judgement, many of the worst offenders are male (think of those Jack Ass movies...). Also, most horrific acts committed by people emotionally 'off the rails' & 'out of control' are committed by males. Here, though, as gender equality augments, more violent gun-toting mad women will emerge from the wood-work too as the Victorian pressure to be 'lady-like' fades.

I don't know if this is the kind of response you were seeking, but it's what I could come up with (& my head is foggy from antibiotics today). I hope it does give you some food for thought.
 
Yeah, I feel like public education and the media sort of make the issue of equality all about money, in the same way there's a vague sense that "women's issues" are all abortion and contraception, as though money is the ultimate good, and sex is all women are about. Of course when you stop and think, these vague issues are not all well thought through, and are kind of simplisticly regurgitated to us. Women are not objects, nor are people in general. We are all more than money and output, but we should do what we are able to contribute.

It is hard to plan out your life- you can't depend on being married, or depend on fitting into a societal mold. I'd say do what you can to support yourself but don't make supporting yourself the ultimate purpose of your life. Do the money making things that you can handle. Spend time in a talent, even if it won't make you money- so long as it brings you pleasure. Like I said, I unexpectedly got very sick in college and had to drop out. I spent a few months miserable at home and my parents were fed up with me. I couldn't drive for six months because I'd had two seizures, so I moved into a spare room at my aunt's and got a job at the nearby dunkin donuts, and rode my bike there in the snow every morning at 5:30 am, unless my uncle took pity (when he wasn't on the boat- he's a fisherman) and drove me. Friends would come pick me up for church (they were much kinder than my family). This went on for a few months till I could drive again.

Long story short, I married my soldier husband, moved to where there were no jobs to be had, and got pregnant (and very sick!) and haven't worked since, except for getting paid for some portraits, but that hasn't amounted to much. I'd be a real "starving artist" if I weren't married. But I contribute- I have contributed lives, and nurturing, and meals, and education, and clean toilets (very important!) And my husband hates if I refer to it as "his money." I admit, I do miss making money and I feel guilty sometimes, but that's not logical for our family right now, and if I were working, I would wish to be home. The grass is always greener, you know?

I'd say just work at the task at hand, and re-evaluate your direction if things arent working. Life throws you curveballs, and nothing is fun all the time. But life is great when you find peace with what you are able to do, celebrate your accomplishments, and enjoy nature regularly and eat lots of chocolate. Ok, the last two might just be me, but you get the idea :)
 
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@Soup
I see what you're saying :)

I've met quite a few SAHMs and most of them do their work at home in an agreement with their husbands, some of them are planning to go back to work when their babies are older etc. equality is really about agreements between people and, if its a family, divided responsibilities. But in the end what makes a person an adult, my personal opinion, not trying to impose it - ability to take care of yourself, independence. But it's quite possible that some people do require more support and there's nothing wrong with. But what I'm saying is, if I was an male Aspie, fired with every single job he's had, living in a dream world, struggling to make sense out of this life, how many women would really want to take care of me, would want me to be their husband? I know those women exist, I met them. They took care of their dysfunctional husbands (whether they had some disorders or were just boys in men's bodies, not important) but 90% of the time they hoped they would change and man up. As a woman I don't want to be independent because I want to do what men do, I want to be independent because I want to prove to myself the challenges I've got due to Asperger's can not stop me :)

I think what I'm trying to say we will reach equality when people (let's say both genders) stop expecting to do certain things or to take on certain responsibilities by default (besides the child birth obviously, I loved it and wouldn't give away that ability for the world :D) we shouldn't expect but discuss and agree to do certain things. If, lets say, in a heterosexual family, a men and a woman work, they both should participate on the amount of time they spend cleaning and cooking and stuff. Men and women shouldn't be expected to do certain jobs ether. Etc it's pretty much going there, but I think sometimes women and men still expect certail gender related "standards" from each other. Just one more thing I want to add in the end :D lots of men tend to open doors for women :) in my world the rule it, open the door for whoever can't obviously do it him/herself or whoever carries a baby :) ok, I think I'm done now :)
 
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Don't forget that with equal rights come equal responsibilities. For example, I'm fine with a woman telling me that taking out the trash is *my* job because I'm the man. I'm also fine with a woman sharing the financial decisions. But you gotta pick one, not both. You can't be the princess only when it suits you, dropping the role when it doesn't. And that is something most modern woman do a lot, including my ex-wife.
 
Haha I'm a feisty, book nerdy, toilet brush weilding, mean Italian food cooking, educator artist aspie princess. Among other things. And I do trash.
 
I think the first step for a woman who wants equal rights is to erase the phrase "because you are the man" from her vocabulary. A woman that can't let go of that overused phrase is not ready for equal rights. Same goes to men, obviously. But in general, we don't have a problem either way, as long as you girls pick what you really want and stick to it. Changing back and forth is un-fair and helluva confusing:

1) Squash that spider, cuz u da man!
2) Change the tire, cuz u da man!
3) Cut the lawn, cuz u da man!
4) You want me to do what? cuz I'm the woman? Hell no!

See...
 
"...And that is something most modern woman do a lot." -RubenX

WEEEeeelll...some modern women do. Gotta give you that one. BUT, there are sociological reasons for this. We women get bombarded with confusing mixed & contradictory messages about who & what we're supposed to be & how we're supposed to behave. Steve Harvey's best seller (Act Like A Lady, Think Like A Man) is a very good example of this schizoid message. HE tells women to have 1950s manners, morals & behaviours, expecting a guy to behave like prince charming in a Disney movie BUT blaming them for all ills men visit upon them. He literally says that if your man is a momma's boy, it's your fault! He tells women to hold a screw driver in one hand & look confused & let the man come use the tool (we're smart enough to raise children, become doctors & drive cars, BUT too stupid to figure out how a screw driver works!). Even the smart career woman should defer to that crusty 'the guy must feel like a leader & protector' BS. Also, we'd better wear heels & if we can't cook in the kitchen, it's okay so long as we cook in the bedroom.

Women are being TOLD to do this! We've been turned into confused & contradictory creatures by the culture around us (..with the exception of many of us Aspie women who've unplugged from 'society' in many ways). All the backing & forthing IS confusing for both sexes. Equal, though, doesn't mean 'the same as': we need to stare into our trousers less & into our humanity more.
 
I've seen my current girlfriend raise the car on jack stands, get under it and come out with the axle.... while keeping an eye on a cake that's in the oven. 99.9% of the so called "man task" are just there because society put them there. Truth is we don't do it because "we are strong men". We are able to do them because we have a brain that enable us to use the right tools for the job. Is not about brute force, is about intelligence. And once a woman see these "mas tasks" for what they really are, there is absolutely no reason why they can't do it too.

Now, if the case is that the woman doesn't want to do them, that's fine. Just keep in mind there will be some other tasks that hubby might not want to do either.

* Woman doing male role and man doing women role? Fine
* Woman doing woman woman role and man doing man role? Fine
* Both man and woman doing both roles? excellent <----- my current relationship is like this

However....
* Woman doing both male and female roles while hubby does nothing? Plain wrong. <--- not that rare, I've seen many times.
* Man doing both male and female roles while wifey does nothing? Plain wrong. <-----this was the case with my ex

More complications arise on special situations... who gets to chose if a pregnancy is aborted? does men have a say so in the matter? do men get an opt-out option? And what about divorce? Can a man keep the kids while ex wife goes to work and pays child support? The road to equality is a long one and we are wayyyy far from over.

When I look at history, what I see is there was an over-correction to and old problem. Back in the day, Male authority was absolute. You have to do what I say or I'll go away and you will be left alone with all these kids and no support. This was over-corrected to a point where it was the woman saying "do as I say or I will leave with the kids, leaving you broke for the rest of your life, supporting all these children". This created a reverse situation where Female authority is absolute. Things are just starting to get better with new 50 50 laws about alimony, child support, marital distribution, etc. Power corrupts... and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
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In my opinion the fight for equality for women was won a long time ago and things are starting to move too far in the other direction where men's equality rights are starting to be eroded.

If anyone has ever worked under a female boss they will know just how bad things can be. One of my worse bosses was a woman - she was a real tyrant in the workplace playing people against one another and basically undermining productivity totally just for her (childish) lust for power. When power gets in the way they become blinded by it and cannot see the wood for the trees and the workplace ends up being one of those places with rapidly revolving doors while the tyrant at the top never leaves and can never be fired because no one can stand up to them. It is a sad predicament - even worse is to be working at a place for many years and to then have one of these tyrant-bosses start up at the company. Such people walk in and never leave.

That said some women in management can be very pleasant and there are mature-minded women out there who are beyond the 'power tripping' behaviour. Such mature-minded women can make a real difference in the workplace.

What we need is a good balance in the workplace and that comes from people with the necessary qualifications and experience to be promoted upwards. No one likes to work under a dictator of a boss with no qualifications who bars promotion for fear of being found to be severely lacking in the qualification department. The power they wield is only effective in keeping others down. You can forget about rightful career development under such managers. Sadly most of these tyrant managers in my experience have been female - okay male managers can be demons too but their behaviour isn't dependent on time of month etc and is more consistent. Some times I'd go into the office and all hell would have broken loose and the job etc would be on the line and I'd go home all jittery and seriously considering my future and then the next day it would be all sweet roses and buttercups. Male managers tend to be fairer, more consistent and less volatile.
 
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I can see where it might appear that an over-correction has occurred. Looking at the statistics will divest anyone of this idea. Every 2 hours in the USA TODAY (as in right now) a woman is killed by her male partner. The leading cause of death in pregnant women in the USA is murder by the father of the child she's carrying. We still, as women, don't earn what men do for the same job or work of equal value. There are overcrowded shelters for battered women in every city in North America & these don't come close to filling the demand. We walk in fear: fear of date rape, fear of sexual harassment in the work place, fear of being raped while out cycling or jogging or even getting the car in the parking lot, fear of a spouse's temper! When, as men, you live with the same fears & dangers, you can claim over-correction.

"... Back in the day, Male authority was absolute. You have to do what I say or I'll go away and you will be left alone with all these kids and no support." -RubenX

That was not how male absolute power manifested itself historically in Western countries or anywhere else: it was more like do whatever I say or I'll beat you to death. There were no consequences for men who batter their wives, infanticide was commonplace & beating the wife was preached by BOTH the Catholic priests & the Protestant preachers, pastors & ministers as a means of 'correcting' her & saving her soul from the devil. It was also a means of maintaining Christian modesty & submission.

A month or so ago in Montreal, a young adult couple who were living together got into a row. The young man (no criminal record) got acid & hurled it all over the woman's face & left her for dead. She survived but is hideously disfigured & comatose. As women, as uncomfortable a reality as this is, the greatest danger to our life is the male partner we're supposed to trust. That isn't hyperbole or paranoia. Every known statistic on woman's deaths supports the statement. We still live with creeping fear of rape & assault from men. When I walk my dog, I'm very careful: I look over my shoulder & avoid certain areas on the path (there IS a rapist loose in the area for 3 yrs now & he hasn't been caught).

Men seem to want to steer the 'equality' discourse along the path of trivial menial tasks (taking out trash, mowing the lawn...). these are irrelevant & easy to solve non-problems: hire a lawn care service. Get a ride on or electric mower both can use. Get a big plastic garbage bin with wheels. Got kids? One week Johnny takes the trash out, the next week Suzy does.

Most men have yet to acknowledge the violence, rape (add child molestations!) the vast overwhelming majority of which are committed by men against women & children. I don't want to argue over nonsense like the lawn as an equality issue: I want to NOT have to fear walking in the parks my tax dollars fund. I don't want to have to barricade myself in my home with alarms & a guard dog out of fear of some man breaking in to rob and or rape me. Women don't want to feel a tinge of fear whenever a husband or boyfriend etc. gets angry. Sadly, what it usually takes for men to wake up & see the inequality in sex relations is when their daughter winds up in a hospital because some man raped her or her husband kicked the $#!T out of her.

Characters like mean bosses come in both sexes. You may have been unlucky in getting several lousy woman bosses. I've had a male boss refuse me a promotion unless I was willing to give him oral sex. Fortunately, I didn't need that job to survive & I quit right there. So many of us put up with untoward staring, brushing against us, peeking down our tops & up skirts in the workplace that it isn't even amusing. This happens even in white collar career-type jobs as well. WE ARE NOT SAFE. Not at home, not at work, not in parks, not in parking lots. Period. When this has been neutralized, severely constrained (actual severe consequences for rapists etc.) we can talk about the lawn or snow shovelling.
 
Obviously men and women are biologically different, but I think we should have equal rights.

I agree with Soup. It really sucks having to worry about your own safety when you're out and about. I want to be able to walk around at night without the legitimate fear of being raped. It's also freaking crazy that not too long ago spousal abuse was a "private matter" and it was perfectly legal for a man to beat his wife with a weapon as long as the girth of it didn't exceed that of his thumb. (This is where the phrase, "Rule of thumb" originated.)
 
I think the best place to start is kindness. People complain about how bad things were "back in the day," but the truth is, there have always been good families. There have always been families who changed the bathwater after every family member, to counteract the indifference, cruelty, and filth of the families who let dad take the first, cleanest bath, and the baby the coldest dirtiest last bath. The truth is, there is more slavery in the world today than at any time in history- and that's percentage of population too, not just because we have a larger population now.

My husband and I are happy with sort of more traditional gener roles. That was the whole plan for us from the beginning. But when he's sick, I take the garbage to the curb and fill up on gas. When I'm sick, he cooks and cleans. We share bathing the kids. He supports my artisitic endevors and loves to buy me rare, expensive books he knows I will love for my birthday. I'm the academic one, but I fully supported his going to college and he got a 4.0 without my help (as opposed to high school...:) ) A lot of people seem to have a problem with me being a stay at home mom- as though I ought to have gone to art school and become successful. Well, you just take a guess what is important to me- some pictures and praise, or my priceless children? Don't I matter? Don't people care that I should have a choice? I don't go around telling women they should get married, settle down, and raise some kids. That's not my business and it's not their dream. But it is mine.

My point is, kindness is what matters. Compassion and respect are equalizers, not money or status. I do think it is very important for educational and carreer opportunities and freedom from violence to be available to all people, women included. Women's rights are important. I am concerned about a trend toward making fun of dads/men in the media. It seems to be having the effect of making men childish and let go of the reins, so to speak, and forsake their families or just not get involved. This isn't good for society either. But of course some stupid tv shows aren't going to ruin all men- there are lots of great guys out there who are above that kind of stuff. But again, it comes down to a mutual respect, compassion, and kindness, opportunity for all, and freedom from violence, like Soup said.
 
I have a male cousin. he is 6'9" tall & weight close to 300lbs of muscle. His thumb looks like my wrist! He's big boned & powerful Fortunately, he's non-aggressive. If he were to attach you with a dish-rag he could seriously hurt you. My husband's thumb is as big around as re-bar. Rule of thumb indeed! This was a law with no teeth. Women had a curfew & weren't free to leave the home & travel. What was she to do: call 911?!? There were no real repercussions for battering men until fairly recently & even now, it has to be pretty severe.

I used to work with this woman when I was abt. 19. She was a 23 ish brunette (married). One day she confided that her husband was violent: she rolled up her sleeve to reveal an ugly bruise. The office ladies agreed she should get to a shelter & let the authorities know what was happening. Many times, we saw her with suspicious bruises (black eyes hidden under concealer & glasses etc.). She decided to leave him, packed a bag & just that day, he arrived early & caught her leaving. He murdered her. I won't go into details due to the sensitivities of some members here but it was slow & ugly. She felt safer with strangers than at home tucked in bed. I'd met this guy several times: he seemed like every ordinary young man: nothing remarkable about him.

Around the block lives a friend of my daughter's. Her father & mother had recently divorced amidst allegations of violence. The husband is a successful owner of several businesses. He moved out & the mother & 2 daughters were at home. One fine night last Spring, at 3 am, @ men broke into the house, dragged the girls from bed, assaulted, beat & tied them up.. the mother was tied up & roughed up too. they stole some jewellery, some petty cash (NOBODY around here leaves any money in the house except mafia guys). they took credit cards & ATM cards & pins. Turned out later, that the FATHER was the one who had orchestrated the assaults & robberies!!!

I am aware that there are some very bad & abusive women out there. I knew a man (an ex-boss!) whose wife was abusive: I even witnessed one of her rages. He was a mild-mannered decent man. these women, though, are comparatively rarer than 4 leaf clovers. Overall, men can take their physical safety (from women) for granted.

At a Canadian college, a programme was established to improve safety for female students with late classes. Male volunteer escorts were recruited to accompany them to their cars or walk them from one campus to another. A woman on her way to her car was assaulted robbed & raped BY THE ESCORT (!!!). We are not equal in many meaningful ways yet.

When many guys awaken to the meaning of inequality:

- When his teen daughter goes on a date with what seemed like a nice boy & she gets 'date raped' & the police make comment about what she was wearing & if she 'led him on'.

- When his daughter is away at college & she goes to a party, someone slips GHB into her drink, assaults her & the college wants to make the incident look like a 'misunderstanding' . You see, they were all drinking & partying. These things happen.

As for reproductive rights, you men HAVE them already! Take responsibility for your own reproductive capacity & WEAR PROTECTION! Carry your own condoms: don't expect the woman to have one. Do YOU carry around a spare IUD or pack of birth control pills? Do you have to give your wife the pill every day? Those of us on the pill, take the thing every day ourselves, messing with our natural body function. If you chose to have sex & didn't have the sense to use a condom, you have no rights afterwards to dictate to a woman what she does with her body. Grow up, take responsibility & use protection! Some women may LIE about using the pill. Some may forget & skip a day or 2. Some might even trick you by making a pin-hole in the condom they give you. Be an adult: bring & use your own.

 
I hate to see these issues as some kind of war between men and women. I'd love to see well educated, kind, hard working men and women come together to lift eachother up, and against generational poverty and help peopel, against cruelty and punish sickos who poison little school girls in Afghanistan, against unkindness, laziness, and cruelty toward the sick and weak. I like ruben's quote about absolout power- it's true. "Submit yourselves to one another" is from the bible. Sorry I can't find it right now, but it's about a mutual giving over of power and honoring eachother. It's the antidote to arrogance and lust for power and voilence.

And this coming together has been happening for a long time. We need to make sure it continues. I'm honestly quite sick of radical feminism and it's man bashing and traditional woman hating, as I am sick of groups of people obsessing over and insisting women have 15 kids and call her husband master, and keeping her poorly educated and surrounded by sexual violence. It's not "traditional roles" that are the problem, it's the cruelty, indifference, and lust for power that any people group or gender can give themselves over to. Worldwide, women and children really are in greater danger than men. We need to be in league with good men who will help protect us. And buy a gun. Seriously. Gun violence lessens when law abiding citizens are armed. Lot's of military wives I know are packing- no stalker or rapist is going to get very far with them. That was a huge fear of mine when my husband was in the army and deployed because it was happening all over our area.
 
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But it works both ways. There are men who get hurt by women too. So we can't just skew the debate in the favour of women all of the time. There needs to be a more balanced view that accounts for both men and women.
 
ARG! I had this well constructed and long post about the women shelters and I closed the web browser before posting... guess I'm gonna have to write it again. arg... hate when this happens >:(
 
Speaking as a man, how about going into the new lack of clear male identity, what men face at not knowing their role or what is expected of them these days, sure chauvinism is being stamped out but so is chivalry.
A good debater knows an equal amount about what opposes the topic they are passionate about and if people are going to rattle off statistics about the evil that men do, where are the voices talking about how badly men are affected by today’s society.

Come on fellas...
 
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