Excellent rebuttal of a scurrilous article about autism.

[Derp]

As you get into higher IQ levels, asynchronous development is quite common, even if not to PDD levels. It is related type of neuro-diversity.

I know. but lets be honest that's only for the upper extremes and the most successful people almost never have autism.


ib4 everyone bombards me with famous autistic people

 

[Crossbreed]

the most successful people almost never have autism.

They typically aren't high-IQ, either. Very successful people are usually reasonably bright, with exceptional people skills.

 

[Derp]

They typically aren't high-IQ, either. Very successful people are usually reasonably bright, with exceptional people skills.

Doctors, Scientist, Engineers, ect.

 

[Crossbreed]

Doctors, Scientist, Engineers, ect.

Many of them are asynchronous, and (the men among them) are likely to be fathers of ASD children because of it.

 

[china autie]

You are Way more likely to be "Low Functioning" than high functioning and Much more likely to have life impairing co morbid conditions than those Super power gifts everyone acts like is exclusive to autism.

Source for this?
Also, the terms "low functioning" and "high functioning" are meaningless in terms of describing our individual struggles.
I know a woman who needs twenty four hour personal care yet she is a downhill skier. Is she high functioning or low functioning?
There are autistics on the internet who use ACC to communicate because they cannot speak with their mouths. Their writing skills are on a professional level. Are they high functioning or low functioning?
Am I high functioning when I go to work and low functioning when I shut down for three days after a severe meltdown?

Rather than characterizing someone as HF or LF, it may be more accurate to describe exactly what they are having difficulty with and needing support with and exactly what they are good at. Otherwise, LF becomes an excuse not to be creative in helping someone achieve all they can in their lives and HF means "We aren't going to help you because you can clean house and do laundry."
Co-morbid conditions are not necessarily life impairing. For sure, some are and a few are fatal.
We have treatment for Major Depression, Anxiety, Psychoses.
We have treatment for Epilepsy and Tourettes.
We even have treatment for Ehlers-Danos and POTS.

There are much more non autistic people with high IQs than autistics and 99.99% of Doctors, Engineers, Scientist and other successful people don't have autism

Again, source?

the most successful people almost never have autism.

How are you defining success?

Successful people who aren't autistic are not free from other diagnoses and problems.
My doctor is dyslexic.
Daniel Fisher, who is a psychiatrist, was diagnosed with schizophrenia in his twenties. He was advised by his professional mental health staff that med school would be too stressful for him. He did it anyway.
A neurologist I know has cerebral palsy.
Anecdotal evidence has its limitations. I am just pointing out that we autistics do not have the monopoly on suffering.

What we achieve or don't achieve in life is not up to our neurology.

 

[55853]

You are Way more likely to be "Low Functioning" than high functioning and Much more likely to have life impairing co morbid conditions than those Super power gifts everyone acts like is exclusive to autism.

Again: in people diagnosed with autism, maybe this is the case, I don't know the figures, as I don't know what your definitions are here. But there exists people who fit the criteria for autism, who don't get diagnosed until adulthood, if at all. They won't count towards the figures, which gives a "skewed" view on what autism is.

high iqs

I really do not understand why some people are seemingly obsessed with this. A single number, calculated by using some but not all "intelligences", and weighting them differently, really doesn't seem meaningful to me.

99.99% of Doctors, Engineers, Scientist and other successful people don't have autism

I highly doubt that. Anecdotally, in the social group for Asperger's I went to, all of them had, or were working towards, a "STEM" degree (myself included). Anecdotally, some of my colleagues seem to have higher autism traits than average, although I'm of course not a psychologist, so I don't know if, like me, they've been missed, or whether that's normal levels of traits that they have. What I can tell you is, 0.01% seems far too small, given that current diagnostic rates for autism are 1-2% in the general population, and I see no reason it should be lower in these professions. Therefore, I'd really like to see you back your claim up. Can you give me a source on that 99.99%?

I hate every time someone with autism is good at something like math (they don't even have to be savant just fairly above average) they act like they have a monopoly on "being smart" like "If I didn't have autism I wouldn't be good a high school algebra"

Who says that?

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I know a woman who needs twenty four hour personal care yet she is a downhill skier. Is she high functioning or low functioning?

Depends. Is she a good skier?

Or is it more like rolling down a hill...

 

[sidd851]

Doctors, Scientist, Engineers, ect.

I think if you will do your homework, you will find that a highly disproportionate number of autists fill exactly these positions.
Not to mention a wide variety of other highly technical positions, we seem to have a knack for them, and, like it or not, it is because of our abilities.
A cross-section of our membership here is enough to establish that on an "anecdotal"
level, but the documentation of this in the public, professional arena is copious.

 

[Autistamatic]

@Derp I would refer you back to this previous post about the "spikey" ability profiles autistic people display in comparison to allistic people. Be aware that such profiles have been observed in the the vast majority of autistic people profiled, however the spikes are less prevalent in autistic people with co-occurring Intellectual Disabilities.

A Cure...?

You clearly have a significant number of co-occurring difficulties to contend with. Whilst there is no way of knowing whether you would have the same subset of conditions were you not autistic, there is no doubt that such conditions are common co-occurrences with autism, though not often in such quantity.

Considering this, how would you consider yourself to fit into the diagnostic criteria for support needs as listed in the image in the linked post? It is possible for someone to be a highly talented individual or have a genius IQ and still be classed as ASD3 having support needs that make it difficult or even impossible to put those talents to practical use in the workplace.
Some of the better known writers, creators and advocates of ND fall into this category. They have found a way of using their talents which they can work around their limitations in current society.
There is no shame in falling into this category. Anyone who is ASD3 who is being badgered by people expecting them to achieve beyond their capacity will benefit greatly from the goals of ND. By improving attitudes and understanding, people should cease their badgering as they have better knowledge on which to base their judgement. Increased investment into treating co-occurring conditions will lead to treatments which can alleviate their symptoms and allow them to function better.
Whether you seek to be cured or not, ND will be as much if not more benefit to "lower functioning" Autistics whether you use the outdated IQ based criteria or the contemporary criteria of support needs than those who have managed to struggle through and lead independent lives.

You are Way more likely to be "Low Functioning" than high functioning

According to the more recent research, including meta-studies of millions of people from census data and medical records, the number of people with Intellectual Disabilities and therefore "low functioning" under the IQ based measure, is somewhere between 25-30%. The study linked below, published in the British Medical Journal, puts it at the higher end at 29.4%.
Even at the higher estimate, autistic people are more than twice as likely to NOT have co-occurring IDs as to have them.

Prevalence of long-term health conditions in adults with autism: observational study of a whole country population

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Do you not agree that all those things you have listed can be addressed by social change?

From my experience, masking or not I simply get tired in public. Mostly when there's a lot of talking and noise. The only way to fix my public anxiety/exhaustion is genocide, which is obviously not a suitable option. The better option is for me to live in an area with lower population density, which I am free to do. Same is true for work. I never worked in "cubicle hell" but I did work in places with 5-6 people in a single room. In hindsight I should have found work such after-hours janitor or night time security guard.

Eye contact and whatnot simply doesn't cause anxiety for me. I don't fidget in public, for all I know I have always acted normal enough from age 8 or so from being taught very strictly what was "weird" to do in public and what wasn't and as I got older I got better at it. These days I don't even know how to stim when nobody is around, apart from pacing and rubbing hands. I don't even do those things at home on my own now since I did have gfs and I just didn't want to bother having the "Autism talk" and preferred to behave normally. Never caused anxiety for me, I got my rest when they were at uni or work and that was enough.

So I have a lot of doubt as to whether acceptance would actually fix anxiety, a lot of people are anxious about not being accepted. Being a social outcast is not something reserved for Autistics. Plenty of normal guys branded as "Nerds" are outcasts as well, as well as physically unattractive people. Many things that Autistic people see as unique to them is probably more widespread among the general population than they think. I think rather than social change, doing those things that normally make you anxious over and over again should technically reduce anxiety over them. It works for me, but elsewhere in the forum someone said that it hasn't worked at all for them. In the end, even if you are accepted as you are (such as physically unattractive people), it isn't going to improve your life.

There were situations where I did something strange or weird at work. I simply explained it's because of my Autism and that I would try to do better in the future. What got me fired over and over was 1 rotten apple in the pack. Back then they were not as prevalent as now but they were all "Look at me I'm so liberal"-types that would get me fired. All of them women. They cared about every social injustice out there, but not as much as they did about not having to deal with an Autistic guy at work. In hindsight it turned out very well for me thanks to this, but that isn't the typical result.

I can try to start a movement to get all liberal women fired, but it isn't realistic. The realistic way to handle it is to arrange my life so that I don't run into these issues. I can either attempt to change the whole world around me or I can move myself into a place where I fit without issues. All of modern social justice is based around changing the whole world when someone could simply change themselves in order to find a place where they can function. You want 98% of the world to completely change according to 2% of people? And then another 1% or 2% shows up and they want everything to change according to their needs. And then another 2%... and another... and another. And then one of the 2% groups has opposed needs to those of another 2%. What will you do then? You just can't have it all.

The change for yourself is rather than educating the whole world about lack of eye contact or fidgeting, simply educate the ones around you.

Simple social change is not going to make everyone's life great all of a sudden. Even if everyone is "educated" the vast majority of people are not going to want to deal with you, they'll deal with you at work because they have to but other than that if they don't like you now they won't like you then. You cannot fight brain structure and million year old social cues with social change. Fidgeting, stimming, looking away and various other things that you might do if you have Autism are extremely unnerving and uncomfortable to most NT's. They don't think you are "weird" or "creepy" because gosh darn you have Autism and that makes you a terrible person, it's because their brain is programmed to sound the alarm whenever you do these things. Some can deal with this and just ignore the alarm, but others cannot and will do whatever they can to get away from you.

Nobody is interested in strapping you down like that guy in A Clockwork Orange and "fixing you". Some people don't want to have an Autistic child and that is their choice to make. Some Autistic people will want to take a cure when it's there, and most will not. Things will just be the same as they have always been, only now there is a way out if you want. It would also fix any issues with the few ABA clinics that operate like it's the Soviet Union, since Gene therapy would make ABA obsolete. It's the only thing that can make everything better for everyone.

 

[Autistamatic]

There are still homophobes, racists, misogynists, climate change deniers and even Neo-Nazis in the world, but thanks to the efforts of campaigners and educators they are now in the minority, rather than the majority they used to be.
Life is now less discriminatory for gay people, non-white people and women than ever before, even if there is some way to go. ND simply aims to achieve the same. Rome wasn't built in a day, but why not start now rather than put up with decades or even centuries of mistreatment whilst the elusive cure that can rid us of our weaknesses without altering our personalities is sought?

 

[AloneNotLonely]

If you think being gay is accepted you are completely wrong. The majority of the world is against homosexuality, is racist and is too busy to care about climate change. When the western bubble pops all of this "Amazing social change" which really has only been going for maybe a century is going to disappear overnight, because the rest of the world doesn't really see things that way. Social change is just a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

Neo-Nazis have always been a fringe group, and the actual Nazi's were also in the minority. Hence why they aren't around anymore. 50% of the population are always going to be misogynists. They're called women.

I don't have to deal with mistreatment. Primarily because I didn't wait for the whole world to change, but changed things for myself. I think the social change is the real elusive thing to chase, especially since it's something that wouldn't work well in the first place and would only work until the direction of politics changes.

 

[Autistamatic]

I don't have to deal with mistreatment

Then you are one of the lucky few.

I have not said that those prejudices were gone, merely that they have significantly reduced thanks to the efforts of decent, hard working people, and will continue to do so. legislation has brought about protections, and education has improved attitudes and knowledge so that incidents of "queer bashing", racially motivated violence and gender discrimination have decreased enormously.

There will always be an element that put their own needs in priority over others and think of themselves as representing the majority. So be it. The rest of us will continue to pursue constructive change that benefits all, whilst they continue to "look after number one".

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Hate crimes have actually not dropped in certain groups. Hate crimes based on sexual orientation have hovered around the same value for over 20 years now, while hate crimes based on disability have been increasing for the last 20 years.

The only actual hate crimes dropping are those based on race and religion.

 

[china autie]

Depends. Is she a good skier?

Or is it more like rolling down a hill...

Seriously a good skier. Better than I ever was!!!

 

[Fino]

There's a singularity in all the social movements mentioned, and it's probably going to sound cliche, but it's Love. It's all about kindness, respect, and love.

One side of the argument wants others to love in spite of any apparent barriers.

The other side wants apparent barriers removed so that love takes as little effort as possible.

All of history on this subject is, "Can we love them too? No? Please...?"

Different religion? Can we love them too?
Different race? Them too?
Different gender?
Sexuality?
Neurology?
Love all of them??
Yeah?

Or homogenize as much as possible. Expedite the process. Accept human nature as bigoted, narrow-minded, and unable to change. Cure all divergences.

Then Love will be widespread and eternal.

Right?

 

[Derp]

If you consider the Comorbid symptoms of autism as separate conditions than you also have to consider the "Good Conditions" like "better memory" and "strong interest" also should count as separate conditions.
meaning all autism would be is awkward social behavior and that's it and I don't consider that a difference like left or right handed
on top of that I find it silly to say I may have all of these other issues of I never had autism
hmm...have autism and also eating and memory problems (witch are both highly common in autism) gee I wonder if these are separate from autism

 

[55853]

"strong interest" also should count as separate conditions

Even though it's part of the criteria?

"Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests)."

Taken from: Diagnostic Criteria | Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) | NCBDDD | CDC

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

There's a singularity in all the social movements mentioned, and it's probably going to sound cliche, but it's Love. It's all about kindness, respect, and love.

One side of the argument wants others to love in spite of any apparent barriers.

The other side wants apparent barriers removed so that love takes as little effort as possible.

All of history on this subject is, "Can we love them too? No? Please...?"

Different religion? Can we love them too?
Different race? Them too?
Different gender?
Sexuality?
Neurology?
Love all of them??
Yeah?

Or homogenize as much as possible. Expedite the process. Accept human nature as bigoted, narrow-minded, and unable to change. Cure all divergences.

Then Love will be widespread and eternal.

Right?

Each movement you listed will now split into two -

they were unable to resolve the argument about what love is and had to start a new movement -
those other guys didn't know what love is at all.

Hey! Lets proselytise. There must be someone in the amazon maybe who doesn't know what love is either.
I mean the right kind of love.
not the love the other guys think is love. Idiots.

 

[Fino]

If you consider the Comorbid symptoms of autism as separate conditions than you also have to consider the "Good Conditions" like "better memory" and "strong interest" also should count as separate conditions.
meaning all autism would be is awkward social behavior and that's it and I don't consider that a difference like left or right handed
on top of that I find it silly to say I may have all of these other issues of I never had autism
hmm...have autism and also eating and memory problems (witch are both highly common in autism) gee I wonder if these are separate from autism

You may or may not be confusing "conditions" with things like symptoms, traits, characteristics, abilities, strengths, etc.