Eye contact, again

[Ylva]

Here's an article on eyes.

What they mean, what they say, how much brain touching to do. (Three seconds, but never more than nine.)

For my part, I have to have an extremely good day to be able to count to nine while looking at eyes. I'm starting with three, with eyes on a screen.

Thoughts? Observations? Experiences?

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I have been trying to determine how much real eye contact I make since I know I use strategies such as looking at mouths but I think that if I tried looking into eyes and counting I'd have no hope at all of being able to comprehend what is said to me or of saying anything coherent myself.

I do find that for me that the possibility of eye contact varies depending on the person and the situation. I couldn't hold eye contact with the man I was married to for 23 years but can with my partner now. I don't like eye contact with the cashier at the grocery store but can make eye contact with someone I know well and/or trust. I might just be staring at faces sometimes. I also think it's possible that I don't like eye contact if the conversation is very personal but will look someone in the eye if they are relating facts to me. If I need to relay information I often look away so as to keep my thoughts organised.

Honestly I am a bit unsure about what I do and when I do or don't make eye contact seems random or else rather complex.

 

[SusanLR]

In general I rarely look people in the eyes.
If it is someone I am familiar with I do glance at their eyes when talking when I want to make a point.
Sort of like adding an exclamation point to something I say.
But, overall, it just doesn't happen naturally and I don't try to force myself either.

When first diagnosed, I did try for a while.
I can't keep my train of thought though when I must try,
thus keeping the conversation going next to impossible.

Today when having a conversation with a friend that I really more than like,
who is also on the spectrum, I found we were making eye connection without thinking about it
like never before.
He was very upset over problems where he works.
He is a doctor with savant autism.
No he doesn't act like the Good Doctor. More like an Aspie.
Very complicated. Very intelligent in his specialty of medicine. A memory that is unbelievable.

Maybe it was because he was sharing his emotional upset, but, it was a natural feeling to me of
a closer than normal bond.
We both have trouble with emotional bonding.
He has physical closeness issues also. So do I.
Yet we share a connection we both agree upon.
And today the eyes had it!
Finally it was not uncomfortable and it was spontaneous.

 

[Progster]

Well, I certainly don't feel like I'm connecting with a person's soul when I make eye contact, I don't seek eye contact with strangers in the street and don't feel rejected if they don't reciprocate. Just goes to show how different my experience is to a neurotypical experience. I do feel self-conscious, though, and feel scrutinised and judged. It really is an uncomfortable feeling. I look at people when I'm talking to them, because people who don't know me well think that I'm not paying attention, but not necessarily at their eyes, and certainly not for more than a second or so, because it's distracting and uncomfortable.

 

[Fino]

I have trouble getting past the first paragraph. Maybe I'm just in a picky mood.

"You’ve doubtless had the experience when, across a noisy, crowded room, you lock gazes with another person. It’s almost like a scene out of the movies – the rest of the world fades to grey while you and that other soul are momentarily connected in the mutual knowledge that they are looking at you and you at them"

Maybe the next paragraph says, "Just kidding," I don't know, maybe I should check. Have we all had this experience? 'Cause it's doubtless, after all.

But then why am I asking.

Maybe it can be instead:

"You've doubtless had the experience when, across a noisy, crowded room or perhaps a quiet, uncrowded room, you lock gazes with another person. It's almost like a scene out of the movies - the rest of the world fades to grey while you and that person are momentarily connected in awkward discomfort in the mutual knowledge that neither of you intended to make eye contact with the other and want nothing more than to quickly look away."

Then I think, "Wow, this article is hilarious! I am surely going to continue reading! "

 

[Suzanne]

Eye contact is sooo hard to achieve and I find if I have to listen carefully, I am unable to have eye contact.

Some days are better than other days and depending on who it is, determines how well I do.

 

[clg114]

Making eye contact does not bother me, I just do not do it unless I am thinking about it. I have found that a lot of people think that you are not listening to them if you do not make eye contact. So, I make eye contact if I am having a important conversation with someone.

 

[Shamar]

Here's an article on eyes.

What they mean, what they say, how much brain touching to do. (Three seconds, but never more than nine.)

For my part, I have to have an extremely good day to be able to count to nine while looking at eyes. I'm starting with three, with eyes on a screen.

Thoughts? Observations? Experiences?

I thought the article was silly, obviously NOT written for us. It is on the same level of silliness as a job finding class I once took (paid a lot of money for it), which consisted of six weeks of "use your friends to network with other people and make contact with executives who do the hiring."

 

[tree]

I agree with this part of the article:

"...research has found that meeting the direct gaze of another also interferes with our working memory (our ability to hold and use information in mind over short periods of time), our imagination, and our mental control, in the sense of our ability to suppress irrelevant information. You may have experienced these effects first hand, perhaps without realising, whenever you have broken eye contact with another person so as to better concentrate on what you are saying or thinking about. Some psychologists even recommend looking away as a strategy to help young children answer questions."

Sometimes I say to people that I am looking away from them so that I can concentrate on
what they are saying. This works out for both people in the conversation, I have found.
I can keep track of what is being said, and the other person appreciates being listened to,
as well as knowing why I am looking into space rather than at them.

 

[Gracey]

If I do what I feel is comfortable, then others are uncomfortable.

Try to meet them halfway.
Look around then glance at eyes, look around again, then another glance.
Like checking in with them.

Agree with the strategy for children.

My limbal rings are wider and darker now I’m older.
?

“... being scrutinised by another intellect ...”
I can’t decide if that’s going to make things more awkward or not.

Information videos and Ted talks,
Sometimes I focus better if I close my eyes. Like I can actually listen better.

I wonder if it’s because there’s too much footage of speaker’s eyes (in addition to movement, gestures and stage ?)
I’ll keep that in mind for next time, I think.

 

[Gr82bk8]

Well, I certainly don't feel like I'm connecting with a person's soul when I make eye contact, I don't seek eye contact with strangers in the street and don't feel rejected if they don't reciprocate. Just goes to show how different my experience is to a neurotypical experience. I do feel self-conscious, though, and feel scrutinised and judged. It really is an uncomfortable feeling. I look at people when I'm talking to them, because people who don't know me well think that I'm not paying attention, but not necessarily at their eyes, and certainly not for more than a second or so, because it's distracting and uncomfortable.

Question for you, Progster. My fiance is aspie, I'm nt. He read this thread and said he most related to your post on the topic. Here's my question: If you were to spend a little time each day purposely making and holding eye contact with your significant other, do u think over time you would get used to it and the discomfort would go away? Or is the discomfort too intense for that to happen? Also if you (or anyone on here) could describe what that discomfort is like, it would help. Thanks!!!

 

[GBWest]

I never make eye contact. If that bothers the people I talk to, I don't really care.

 

[Fino]

Question for you, Progster. My fiance is aspie, I'm nt. He read this thread and said he most related to your post on the topic. Here's my question: If you were to spend a little time each day purposely making and holding eye contact with your significant other, do u think over time you would get used to it and the discomfort would go away? Or is the discomfort too intense for that to happen? Also if you (or anyone on here) could describe what that discomfort is like, it would help. Thanks!!!

I've always described it as a burning, I think partly because the longer it continues the more intense the discomfort, and the discomfort runs through my whole body with a sort of constricting pressure-like anxiety.

And I could be wrong, but it's my thought that exposure therapy would have no effect. Maybe there are studies on that. The longer I've dated someone was three years, and we didn't try anything like that but I know eye contact never got more comfortable over the course of those three years.

 

[Progster]

Question for you, Progster. My fiance is aspie, I'm nt. He read this thread and said he most related to your post on the topic. Here's my question: If you were to spend a little time each day purposely making and holding eye contact with your significant other, do u think over time you would get used to it and the discomfort would go away? Or is the discomfort too intense for that to happen? Also if you (or anyone on here) could describe what that discomfort is like, it would help. Thanks!!!

The feeling never quite goes away, it always seems a bit uncomfortable and unnatural to me, but it is definitely easier to manage with people I know well rather than strangers. It feels like two same poles of a magnet trying to touch. It produces a feeling of unease and instinctual reflex reaction to look away, panic even. To make eye contact, I must make a conscious effort to override this feeling. Of course, this can vary from person to person.

My relationship with my partner is not defined by eye contact and is not based round connecting through eye contact or such "soul gazing", but on common goals, interests, opinions, outlook in life and priorities.

 

[Gr82bk8]

Progster and Fino, that is pretty much what i thought, and your descriptions help a lot, thank you!!. What's interesting is that my fiance actually makes quite a lot of consistent eye contact with me when we're talking at work from a few desks away. It's up close where he seems to really feel and avoid the discomfort... any thoughts on that?

 

[Jojo_LB]

I usually can't look into anyone's eyes while I'm the one doing the talking. I am either looking down (at the floor, my hands, my lap, or shoes), or at the wall, or everywhere else around the room except their eyes! I feel like I lose the ability to speak coherently. I can focus best on what I'm saying if I am not looking at someone's eyes. I mean, I will occasionally glance at them just to show that I'm listening and acknowledging their presence.

I can't stare into my husband's eyes. I can look at him for a few seconds (3 seconds maybe?) at a time when we're talking, but I have to look away too. We've been together for more than 7 years. I will never be comfortable staring into his eyes lol

 

[Tony Ramirez]

I have been out more these past three weeks than in the past 5 years. I have been socializing and making eye contact I hate it but I have been doing the look for about 5 seconds look away briefly a few then look again. It is working. Also believe it or not it is easier to look at woman eye contact then men.

 

[Fino]

That's interesting, I'm the exact opposite of Jojo. I can make eye contact better while I'm talking, but if they're talking and looking at me and I'm just listening, eye contact is unbearable.

As for the work thing, is he unable to make eye contact close-up at work? I was thinking the fact that it's work might have something to do with it, because when I'm at work I'm in "work mode" and fake many things. I'm also able to make eye contact more when the subject is the subject that I'm an "expert" at and, as a teacher, am often talking to "subordinates," which also helps.

But if it's just a matter of distance, it'd make sense to me for it to be easier from a distance and behind a desk. The desk puts a barrier between you two, which increases comfort, in my opinion, and then the distance also helps because it decreases detail in every perception, making everything less intense.

 

[Progster]

For me, the most discomfort seems to be when my eyes meet the other person's eyes - if I look at a person's eyes and they look away, it's better. I also don't have this issue so much when I'm talking on Skype, perhaps because I'm not able to make direct eye contact - they are usually looking at me and not at the camera so seem to look away. Still, a full screen image is overwhelming/too much and I always reduce the window to a very small size when talking. Perhaps the being albe to make eye contact at a distance, but not close up is related to this. It's more overwhelming, direct or intimate close up.

 

[Jojo_LB]

I don't know about the "distance" thing. I thought that I'd be OK with it, but I recently found out I kinda wasn't. I guess it depends on the context and who is looking at me.

I was at a show at my fave little spot in the Lower East Side of Manhattan last Wednesday night, and a comedian was on the stage walking around, looking at various people in the audience. I am a regular there, so I can usually claim the good small tables towards the front, about 15 feet from the stage, about 18-20 feet from performers. Anyway, every time she looked at me, or it appeared like she was looking at me but perhaps she was looking just past me or something, I had to look away. It was so awkward!

Maybe it's because it felt similar to having a spotlight shone on me? That's the only thing I can think of.