Female uber driver gave me a hug

[paloftoon]

. . .

And what do you think of waitresses? I had a waitress actually giving me a contact information. I never asked her for it. She just handed me a piece of paper with the contact information herself. The way it happened is that, after I learned her name, I handed her a piece of paper where I wrote how, back in my early 20-s, I participated in Holocaust Survivors Message Boards where I pretended to be a woman, whose name just happened to coincide with the name of that waitress, while posting how I will never marry a Jew because Jews are "weak" since they couldn't defend themselves against the Nazis. Then she wrote something on that paper and gave it back to me. I thought it would be a response to what I wrote? But no: it was her number and email address!

She did, however, repeatedly say we are just friends. Not that I ever asked her out: she is older than me, so I am not interested anyway. I guess she did it preemptively.

. . .

Your response with the Holocaust Survivors Message Boards is awkward.
Your viewpoint that "all Jews are weak" just because they couldn't defend themselves against the Nazis is horrendous. Just because they couldn't defend themselves against Nazis doesn't make them weak people. It arguably makes you a racist against Jews. Sure, their culture and their togetherness or even over-togetherness can be difficult to deal with, but for you to generalize this about Jews. It is obvious enough that Jews did not have the strength to defend themselves. But when you say they were weak, this has the implication that they wanted to be enslaved and tortured. It's not an appropriate thing to say or think about. You may've been referring to Jew's physical strength at that point in time rather than an individual's personality in general, but there's no real context to talk about an entire race of people being "weak."

Usually, people only hand you a piece of information with contact information like that if they are interested in you. When you replied with something besides contact information, it totally shut the interest down. You weren't able to tell socially that she was interested in you. I guess this could be a way to turn someone off politely- but I don't think you meant to do that. She said she only wanted to be friends, but she's being polite. She really doesn't want to contact you because your response was too off-the-wall given the context.
As a potential suitor or even for a potential friend, it makes you seem so off in a way that one can't depend on you to deal with reality and respecting people and interpreting social situations properly. I know that interpreting social situations is our weakness. But I have to point this out because the actual context is so bad and makes aspies look bad. I hope this post is helpful to you.

 

[tazz]

So, if two men are into or kind of into each other, they are more likely to have sex sooner because of a man's nature in general.
That is why it's typically more an lgbt thing to hookup, but a number of heterosexuals do this practice too.

It's not my experience that hookups happen more in the lgbt community than the straight community. I'd say it's the same.

 

[Polchinski]

It is obvious enough that Jews did not have the strength to defend themselves. But when you say they were weak, this has the implication that they wanted to be enslaved and tortured.

What I mean by "weak" is the former, not the latter. In my book

Weak = wanting to defend themselves but not being able to

Masochistic = Wanting to be tortured

I never said Jews were masochistic. I only said they were weak.

Usually, people only hand you a piece of information with contact information like that if they are interested in you. When you replied with something besides contact information, it totally shut the interest down.

You confused time order. You assumed she first gave me her contact information and then I replied with Jews being weak. Actually it was the other way around. I first wrote her a note about Jews being weak, and then she responded with contact information.

Its true, though, that she told me her name before I wrote what I did: thats why I wrote it. But her actual contact information was AFTER I wrote it. Which almost makes it seem like she liked what I wrote: why else would she give me her contact information in response to that?

Maybe the reason you confused time order is that you assumed I wrote it by email. Let me clarify: I wrote it on a piece of paper. So I didn't have her email, yet, when I wrote her what I did -- on a piece of paper. Then, she gave me back that very same piece of paper and put her email+phone number on it.

She said she only wanted to be friends, but she's being polite. She really doesn't want to contact you because your response was too off-the-wall given the context.

Well, sometimes I complain to her I have no friends and she would tell me "you have a friend: standing right here". Also, speaking of hugs, she sort of gave me a side hug when she was telling me we are friends. And I remember one other occasion when I was doing my calculations and she walked up to me and gave me side hug.

Its true though that she doesn't reply to my emails.

The other possibility is this. I actually wrote her about that holocaust board twice. First time I wrote her in that note I handed to her, and second time I sent her an email with a whole essay about it. So its possible that she liked the note on paper, which is why she gave me her email, but she didn't like that I wrote about it again, which is why she didn't respond.

She was giving me the above side-hugs AFTER both the note and the email, though.

 

[Polchinski]

It's not my experience that hookups happen more in the lgbt community than the straight community. I'd say it's the same.

Why would hookups after an uber ride be a "thing"? By the way, the only reason I say its a "thing" is because of the response to this thread that mentioned it. I didn't know about it.

Personally it seems very counter-intuitive why would a hookup not lead to lasting connection. It just makes it seem fake. And with other things too: be that hug or whatever. If people act like they like each other and then never exchange numbers its like they are admitting they were putting up a charade.

 

[paloftoon]

What I mean by "weak" is the former, not the latter. In my book

Weak = wanting to defend themselves but not being able to

Masochistic = Wanting to be tortured

I never said Jews were masochistic. I only said they were weak.



You confused time order. You assumed she first gave me her contact information and then I replied with Jews being weak. Actually it was the other way around. I first wrote her a note about Jews being weak, and then she responded with contact information.

Its true, though, that she told me her name before I wrote what I did: thats why I wrote it. But her actual contact information was AFTER I wrote it. Which almost makes it seem like she liked what I wrote: why else would she give me her contact information in response to that?



Well, sometimes I complain to her I have no friends and she would tell me "you have a friend: standing right here". Also, speaking of hugs, she sort of gave me a side hug when she was telling me we are friends. And I remember one other occasion when I was doing my calculations and she walked up to me and gave me side hug.

Its true though that she doesn't reply to my emails.

The other possibility is this. I actually wrote her about that holocaust board twice. First time I wrote her in that note I handed to her, and second time I sent her an email with a whole essay about it. So its possible that she liked the note on paper, which is why she gave me her email, but she didn't like that I wrote about it again, which is why she didn't respond.

She was giving me the above side-hugs AFTER both the note and the email, though.

This context helps a lot!

The woman gave you a hug afterward at that moment in time because she felt sorry for you being so thoughtless. I think she recognized that your comprehension is way off.

You meant one meaning with "weak", but when you use "weak" in that manner, it implies that they are masochistic and not that they are wanting to defend themselves but couldn't.

Bringing that up was just not appropriate. Maybe if you asked her if she liked history and WW II, then got into a deep discussion about World War II and Nazis and Jews, and then you said you felt bad for the Jews being "weak", that might've been more okay. But then even with Jews being defenseless in that situation, for you to say you'd never date a Jew (because of that or for whatever reason) is ludicrous.
There are many attractive Jews who do well for themselves and could be a good partner to you and you would just put them aside because they are Jewish. There are all kinds of Jews for the most part (I'd never heard of as Asian Jew, and maybe one would exist in modern times rarely), and you wouldn't know necessarily know if someone was mostly Jewish or only slightly Jewish but it still was a big part of their life etc. Appearances may tell you something, but not necessarily and it shouldn't matter. . . . Regardless of the timing, for you to say you would never date a Jew is absolute discrimination and it is disgusting.

 

[Polchinski]

This context helps a lot!

The woman gave you a hug afterward at that moment in time because she felt sorry for you being so thoughtless. I think she recognized that your comprehension is way off.

Again, you confused the time sequence. She gave me a hug several days after my making that remark, as opposed to a minute after. So there is no reason to assume that her hug was referring to that.

One thing that DID immediately precede one of her hugs was this. I looked up her name, and saw a lot of criminal record. I then shown her that criminal record and asked her whether she committed all those crimes. She told me that that lady is not her, even though she has her name, but her age is different. I then asked her what is her age. At first she said she doesn't tell people her age. But then she said she will tell me, because we are friends. And she gave me side hug simultaneous with the word friends. Now, she repeated the word friends few times before telling me her age. So I guess I can read it in two ways:

1) She won't date someone who knows her age since she would feel less attractive. So she was sort of making a deal: "are you willing to hear my age at the cost of never dating me"

2) She meant friends as opposite to strangers. So she might have stressed that point in order to tell me that she doesn't want me to tell her age to other people because she is only sharing it with me because we are friends.

However, she called me friend multiple other times. For example, in response to my first email, she wrote "you might have been a customer at first, but now you are a friend: I don't give my email to just anyone, I only give it to friends". Note this: this happened after my telling her about holocaust survivors message board and before my pulling her records and asking her age.

And as far as her giving me side hug, she did it in at least one other occasion, besides the one of telling me we are friends. That other occasion that I remember was when I was doing my calculations and she just walked up to me and leaned against me sideways. And yes, it was few weeks after she told me we are friends.

You meant one meaning with "weak", but when you use "weak" in that manner, it implies that they are masochistic and not that they are wanting to defend themselves but couldn't.

Why would weak imply masochistic? I mean, lets say someone does badly on PE. Then that person is weak. But its not like that person enjoys doing badly.

Maybe if you asked her if she liked history and WW II, then got into a deep discussion about World War II

There was no point in doing it since I don't have any reason to believe she is interested in history.

The reason I brought up that specific thing about Jews being weak is because her name coincided with the name of that woman character who talked about weak Jews, and I was "weak Jew" sitting in front of her. Thats why I "specifically" wanted to ask her about that thread, nothing else.

Now, "after" getting that context in, I "did" ask her what she thinks of Jews (she didn't answer as I asked her by email). But you see how I need to first get that context, that way she knows why I am asking it. Otherwise it just won't make a lot of sense.

and then you said you felt bad for the Jews being "weak", that might've been more okay.

I wasn't feeling bad, I was actually thinking of it as a clever joke. Because most antisemities say how Jews are powerful and here I was saying they are weak yet also sounding hostile that way. Plus usually the "antisemitic" opnion on holocaust amounts to its denial. But here I was capitalizing on holocaust while sounding antisemitic that way. It just felt clever to say this.

There are many attractive Jews who do well for themselves and could be a good partner to you and you would just put them aside because they are Jewish.

The whole thing about not dating Jews is not true at all. I only said it on holocaust message board to get attention.

First and foremost, men don't reject women for being weak; it is only women who reject men for being weak. Which is precisely why I pretended to be a woman when I was making that post. Since in reality I am a man looking for a relationship with the woman, that whole thing that I wrote doesn't apply.

Apart from that, I am Jewish myself. But when I made that post I specifically said I am not Jewish. Which again goes to show that this post wasn't true: it was me making stuff up to get attention and sound clever.

As far as the waitress goes, I told her I am Jewish: that was like one of the main points, to tell her I am Jewish so she is in the same situation as that other woman with her name. But when I was pretending to be that other woman I said I wasn't Jewish. So don't confuse those two things.

 

[tree]

I thought the bit about Jews being weak must have been a joke.

Why you found it necessary to make up a fake identity, I don't know.

 

[Polchinski]

Why you found it necessary to make up a fake identity, I don't know.

If the point of the joke was to present "an unusual type of antisemitism" then I better say I am not Jewish, because if I were to say I was Jewish it would be self-hatred rather than antisemitism.

Also, if part of a joke is that I won't date Jews because they are weak, then I better be a woman trying to date men. Because not wanting to date weak women is a bit strange, it reverses gender roles.

For example, I read on the internet that Asian men are often regarded as undesirable, while Asian women are regarded as desirable. That is because Asians of both genders are small. In case of a man being small is unattractive while in case of a woman it is attractive.

So ... if I wanted to capitalize on Jews being small, I would have to be talking about rejecting Jewish men rather than Jewish women. Since then Jews would be in a similar situation to Asians in this regard.

 

[tree]

And this digression relates to getting a hug from an uber driver, how?

To illustrate that you go to convoluted lengths trying to make social contact?

 

[Forest Cat]

The other possibility is this. I actually wrote her about that holocaust board twice. First time I wrote her in that note I handed to her, and second time I sent her an email with a whole essay about it. So its possible that she liked the note on paper, which is why she gave me her email, but she didn't like that I wrote about it again, which is why she didn't respond.

I think a good rule of thumb is to not talk about the holocaust when getting to know women. There are lots of things to talk about, no reason to talk about that. And sending women an entire essay about the holocaust seems unnecessary and a little weird.

 

[Polchinski]

And this digression relates to getting a hug from an uber driver, how?

In reply number 5, @NDR2 said that drivers are typically discouraged from getting into non-superficial contact with their riders. So, in reply 11, I asked @NDR2 whether it applies to food industries and mentioned the waitress that gave me contact information.

Now, if I were to ask "was it weird of her to give me a contact info" the logical question is: did she give it because I ask for it, or did she give it out of the blue? The answer is somewhere between the two. On the one hand I didn't ask for contact information but, on the other hand, I DID pass her that piece of paper about the holocaust. And then when I mentioned the latter, everyone got sidetracked on the holocaust topic.

So, back to the original question: how do you compare uber driver giving me a hug to a waitress giving me her contact information? According to @NDR2 and probably a lot of others, uber driver giving me a hug violates the protocol. What about waitress giving me a contact information? Does it violate the protocol or no?

And to make it clear: these two women don't know each other. They are in different towns. I was simply compared the two scenario. As far as holocaust, I talked about it only to waitress. As far as uber driver, I talked to her about travels, school, jobs and weight loss.

 

[Forest Cat]

So, back to the original question: how do you compare uber driver giving me a hug to a waitress giving me her contact information? According to @NDR2 and probably a lot of others, uber driver giving me a hug violates the protocol. What about waitress giving me a contact information? Does it violate the protocol or no?

I don't see the point of trying to compare it. Two different people, two different situations.

Maybe you are overthinking it, someone gave you a hug and someone else gave you her phone number. Not much more to it. It sounds like two positive things. It could have been much worse.

 

[Polchinski]

@Forest Cat The policy violation doesn't bother me. It bothered @NDR2 though (see reply 5). But as for me, I was confused why it bothered @NDR2 thats why I asked him about it in reply 11.

I agree those are two positive things. The reason I overthink them is because I don't experience such positive things very often. So for most people they don't give much thought to it since they get things like that every day, but for me it is something special.

I think waitress giving me her number is more genuine between the two. Because the hug didn't lead to any further contact, while giving me a number did. The hug could have probably been her trying to get ratings, but I don't think anyone would give a contact info unless they mean it.

And by the way the waitress wasn't trying to get tips. On the contrary, whenever she serves me she doesn't serve me food just serves me coffee or iced tea, and insist I don't pay for them. I first tried to pay but she insisted not to. I gave her 5 dollar tip the first time she insisted not to charge me but then afterwords I stopped paying since she was quite persistant that I don't.

I am not sure why she decided not to serve me food. I remember the first time I was actually frustrated about it, but didn't have guts to say anything. But then after she gave me her contact information and all that, then I realized that its not anything negative (or else she wouldn't have given me a number) so I figured she probably cares about my finances, which is good if thats the case. For once, someone cares about me as a person.

And by the way, she isn't "refusing service": if I were to ask for food, I am sure she would serve it. Its just that she isn't asking me if I want to order anything, and I am used to waitresses asking it first, so I don't ask. As far as refusing my payment for drinks, yes, there I very much did insist on paying and she insisted that I don't.

 

[Forest Cat]

I agree those are two positive things. The reason I overthink them is because I don't experience such positive things very often. So for most people they don't give much thought to it since they get things like that every day, but for me it is something special.

Ok, I understand. It's special for me too.

 

[Polchinski]

I think a good rule of thumb is to not talk about the holocaust when getting to know women. There are lots of things to talk about, no reason to talk about that. And sending women an entire essay about the holocaust seems unnecessary and a little weird.

Well, that waitress is the only example of someone in the past couple of years, to whom I talked about the holocaust. However, what DOES look like a pattern is that I tend to talk about heavy subjects, and it pushes people away. Probably part of it is that I don't know how to do "small talk", so if I want to talk, then heavy subjects is all I know how to do.

 

[tree]

Do you have a psychotherapist with whom you consult regularly?

 

[Polchinski]

Do you have a psychotherapist with whom you consult regularly?

I have a counselor on campus, but I only come there occasionally, and didn't see him for the past few years. That is mainly because it doesn't help. I guess the reason it doesn't help is partly my fault. Because when I did come, I would spent the whole hour describing the latest social interaction that didn't go my way, and then we would run out of time.

But in any case, I am not sure what kind of tangible things they "can" help me with? Per their policy, they have to pretend they don't know me outside of those sessions, so they can't introduce me to their friends or anything like that. I guess they can teach me some general principles on how to hold conversation, but since nobody talks to me I don't see where I would apply it. If I do talk about specific people that do talk to me (like I did), it ended up being waste of time since I was mostly focusing about the people that I lost, so getting feedback on why they left didn't help when it comes to getting them back, nor did I apply any of it to other interaction with other people.

 

[tree]

Is that "counselor" a licensed psychologist?
Do you see a psychiatrist?

I am asking because it's these sort of professionals
who could give you referrals to programs in which
you might be able to learn more appropriate
socialization skills.

 

[Polchinski]

Is that "counselor" a licensed psychologist?

I don't know. Its a counselor on campus. How does it work? Don't they need "some" type of licence to be able to work there?

Do you see a psychiatrist?

I don't want medications. Nobody else suggested I take them either. But, as a hypothetical, if someone were to put me on medications, I would simply refuse to take them.

 

[tree]

I am not suggesting medication.

I am saying it sounds like you could use practice
in socialization, and that a professional psychotherapist
would be able to direct you toward that sort of program.