Fired?

[paloftoon]

All of you are right in some way. Selena has some points, but so does Fino and Progster. It's a complicated amalgam of things.

In many environments, we want to be cognitively aware enough of what other people consider important. And if we aren't, we want to be able to say that we will make ourselves abreast of the information (and of course do so that day) by watching some news for at least 10 minutes that same day or looking up news online on mainstream news sites to at least have a slight understanding of some things that society cares about. Slightly apologize if someone at work is able to claim that you haven't been keeping abreast of the news even if you don't mean it, lol. Then, just do what you need to/can in 10 min and do whatever you normally want to do in life besides that. If you have been, but you missed a detail, "just" say you didn't notice that detail and that you will try to look into it more later on.

Also, being in a job with soft skills such as therapy, when having colleagues, having/building some emotional intelligence is important. I think you should google "Emotional Intelligence" and you might be able to pick up a few tips too.

Being in a job where you're indirectly judged on your soft skills, being able to be your own person and do your job in a way that doesn't hold back or intrude on other colleagues is important too. You were looking for something too black and white and situations are not always black and white. When you file a complaint to some organization, if someone in the organization you're working for gets word of that, they are more likely to fire you first so that they can't be liable of what accusations you make of the organization regardless of who is in the right.

Unless you're being physically abused, emotional abuse is hard to prove. And if you're the only one with a problem and it's not a whole bunch of employees, then regardless of if you're right or wrong, I wouldn't start trying to complain about this person or that. I think your time is better spent looking for ways to continually improve your persona. You losing this job is not a failure. Try to make it a learning experience for you.

When you go interview for other jobs, if they ask you why this one didn't work out for you, you can tell them simply that it wasn't a good fit. If they ask you for more detail, maybe you would feel comfortable to say that you would see things too "black and white" but you have been working on how there might not be one right answer and how things are based on context. Have a good example of this prepared if you can- and make sure it's good. Check with a few friends beforehand if you can. Oh, also make sure you don't use people's actual names. "this person" or explicitly state you've purposely changed names beforehand.

Maybe, oh, something like if you heard a child screaming "Bloody murder" but you'd work with the child for years and you knew they were kidding. You would advise the kid not to say that AND document this- date, times, any mannerisms you could mention.
But, if a child was literally screaming this the first time they met you, you might immediately advise them to write down specific examples of their concerns in a notebook and you might decide to step out with the door slightly open and consult with a colleague/call a colleague in or something like that.

You have to be able to express things like this in an interview possibly, and be able to interact in such a fashion properly on your own without depending on specific advice from a person. We have a tendency to want to follow specific advice, but many similar situations will not necessarily garner quite the same response, or not necessarily expressed in the same way. As hired professionals, in many jobs, we need to be able to determine this on our own and ultimately, we are responsible for ourselves. There is no magic recipe book we can always follow for many jobs and life. Good luck.

 

[paloftoon]

P.S. On the bright side, you WON'T be sleeping all day, living with your parents, not learning from your experiences, And not trying to do something with your life all at the same time

 

[Magna]

Um, no, and who are the three people agreeing with this.

People of East Asian descent have been facing more violence since last year, partly because the ex-president (still feels good to say that!) kept linking the virus to China. If you weren't aware of this until the mainstream media started talking about it recently, that means you're probably not a member of the targeted community. That means you're privileged, and not being Asian has a lot to do with it. It's the same reason most of us couldn't care less about Black and brown people being systematically killed by the police or brutally separated from their family until they made it to the news semi-recently, and this definitely has everything to do with race and privileges.

I guess it's normal to fail to keep up with the news or to muster empathy for people who don't look like you (I've been guilty of this as well), but to actively refuse to acknowledge your failure and to even try to turn this into a case of "reverse racism" is just appalling and gross. Do better.

I think we should be careful not to hurl the hammer of labeling someone "privileged" on a forum based around people with disabilities. Not to mention it takes zero effort and has zero consequence to doing so.

Having compassion and support for each other here goes a long way toward encouraging, fostering and upholding a compassion for people in general.

 

[Ella Spell]

Um. My very own sister-in-law is Asian and at risk to the extent that she cannot / will not walk to work less than a ten minute walk from home in broad daylight. My brother drives her both ways and is very worried about her safety. Regardless I didn't know about the threat to the Asian community until he explained this to me last week. I don't watch news, listen to news, or follow political banter on websites so I had absolutely no idea this was happening, and that does NOT mean that I'm racist or privileged for not knowing. I dislike the implication that anyone who doesn't follow news and is busy being locked down in their home avoiding the media, is automatically racist or not supportive of what's happening in the world.

 

[paloftoon]

I think we should be careful not to hurl the hammer of labeling someone "privileged" on a forum based around people with disabilities. Not to mention it takes zero effort and has zero consequence to doing so.

Having compassion and support for each other here goes a long way toward encouraging, fostering and upholding a compassion for people in general.

I had to think about your reply, and in this context, I think Selena's comment leans for more substantiality in this case.

1. She brings up an issue that the majority of society cares about. You don't need to know about every news story, but if you watch a random 10 min blurb or google major current news headlines, you would probably know sort of thing.

2. The context of the job described involves a lot of contact and emotional relationship interactions. These occurrences in our world do affect all of us, even if indirectly in small ways.

3. On this forum, a significant number of us want to be treated like human beings and not catered to or pandered to like we need to be served. We want to be more independent. But with that independence comes implied benefits and social responsibilities. Yes, we can choose not to keep up with the news, but then we can't not expect other people around us not to be angry. Not attempting enough awareness is a way to show that you don't care, even if it's unintended.

4. Because this is a disability forum, if you support the idea that it's simply okay to not learn about the news no matter the context, And if you don't want to be treated like a second class citizen, then you will be open to learning the information at a minimum. Accepting the idea of being naive in a way is implying things such as you aren't capable of independently saving the money you make or taking care of yourself, that you aren't able to live in an apartment or house on your own, and that you shouldn't complain but might complain anyway sort of thing.

5. Organizations like Autism Speaks and people who might write bad stuff about us as a collective group, we want to minimize the bad things they say about us, right? By claiming being ignorant is simply okay,
it would make us less substantial as human beings and as a community and it would promote these organizations as being more right about us as a collective.
I don't believe that is a direction we want to head in. Although, "ignorance is bliss" as the adage goes. But, if you aren't okay with being treated like a second class human being yourself, you will make the effort to be more open-minded to this very world we all live in.

6. Not attempting to be open-minded enough, if you aren't too negatively impacted indirectly partially by a lack of knowledge of the real world and have shelter, clothing, and food by whatever means you have them, it would, in a sense, make you and many of us indirectly, immorally, unfairly more privileged.

Selena does care, but she wants a community that can think for itself and not give outsiders solid reasons to berate us. She is showing compassion and support for us and for the outside world. The way you bring it up, it feels more like an excuse to avoid the realities in front of us. It's like saying "everything is okay and we care about you" and you authentically care about the other person, but the result is unintentional nonchalance because you don't recognize that there is a significant social problem that needs to be managed to the best of our abilities.

 

[unperson]

for some reason this site doesn't keep me in the conversation, despite having posted in it prior.

I'm sorry you've had this experience but we all have had something like ....can't have people like you in the workplace, how dare you think you can be one of us stuff.

I've lived and survived it, didn't realise you were american, for some reason presumed britishness.

wish you well, if it helps, when i despaired of ever getting full time employment i sat for the public service exam (gubbmint jawb), cos i'm good at exams, got a jawb offer in 6 weeks, which i accepted and they all hated me, my 'probation' report was damning and written in pencil, which i was asked to sign. I refused, and contacted the union rep. In the USA I think this means talk to an attorney.

 

[Ella Spell]

@selena and @paloftoon -

It seems you're both asserting that people who don't or haven't watched news for various personal reasons are "irresponsible" - at most.

"Irresponsible" is a far cry from "racist" or even "privileged".


I don't watch news because I was subject to nearly a decade of physical and sexual violence involving torture, extortion, identity theft, and attempted murder. I have CPTSD and am so traumatised by interpersonal conflict that I cannot and do not watch or consume news media. I am also hyper-empathetic such that the suffering of any individual of any race, ability, or orientation makes me physically and mentally ill, leading to mental health challenges and suicidal ideation. I donate to charities and do a considerable amount of community service work when I'm not in lockdown - which I am currently. I cannot leave the house and hadn't spoken to my brother about his wife's vulnerability because we don't / can't have family gatherings for over a year now.

Calling me or anyone else "racist" without knowing our reasons for avoiding news media only makes the speaker seem prejudiced, entitled, and to be honest ... very privileged not to experience this hardship in their own lives.

I mentioned this topic to my brother and his Asian wife who both said that it's disgusting for anyone to shame another human being for speaking their truth, without taking the time to understand.

This thread seems to amount to exactly that - the guilting and shaming of AF members who have done nothing to indicate they hold racist beliefs. I hope an apology is soon issued to the OP and others who were lowkey humiliated by your words. This is supposed to be a support site, and I don't believe the rules have changed.

 

[unperson]

uh, there's several differrent conversations going on in this thread, @Fino, but it's a little late for a discrimination case payout, seems like you just accepted their 'can't have people like you in the workforce' thing, and slinked off. I've done that too, to my regret, many times, but then it got so frequent, it's like why was I wasting my time even bothering, cos none of them would ever allow me to work, or that i had the right to earn a living.

It could get worse and it did for me - failing to legally assert my right to work, but not having the support or background to know how to do that, I ended up in these situations all too frequently.

If it's possible for you to get a backdated severance/unfair dismissal payout, it could help a lot with seeing you thru the next phase of life. This may not be the only time you will experience this as an employee.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Even NTs don't keep abreast of the news all of the time. In fact most NTs are just getting on with the day to day aspects of staying alive and feeding their families.

I don't see why we should subject ourselves to every negative news story when NTs don't have to. It's not a character flaw. People just have different interests.

Fino's supervisor was being unreasonable with her over the top reaction to the not knowing about 1 news story. I hope Fino finds nicer people to work with. They do exists.

 

[Telepath John]

I wrote in a report for a student that I was having difficult controlling a student's wild behavior. My supervisor responded to my report by suggesting that I simply stop trying to control the student and "let them do what they want."

Your supervisor did not understand your original report and provided advice and direction which was not helpful. That can happen. Blaming you will not solve Their Problem. It would be best to evaluate your original report more closely and work out a better solution.

John

 

[Aspychata]

It sounds like you were discarded for no particular reason. But the news story was an excuse to push you out the door. l live in a "employment at will" state. Which means they can terminate my employment for no reason at all. Washington state is also the same.

Sorry Fino. I hope you are rehired. My daughter has some Asian like her father. Luckily she is doing well. There are so many people targeted for one reason or another. You just asked for clarification. If your supervisor was on the ball, she would have provided a copy of the news release. If your patients are Asian, then perhaps l would expect you to be aware. But if 1% of your clientele is such, then what's the big deal?

 

[paloftoon]

@selena and @paloftoon -

It seems you're both asserting that people who don't or haven't watched news for various personal reasons are "irresponsible" - at most.

"Irresponsible" is a far cry from "racist" or even "privileged".


I don't watch news because I was subject to nearly a decade of physical and sexual violence involving torture, extortion, identity theft, and attempted murder. I have CPTSD and am so traumatised by interpersonal conflict that I cannot and do not watch or consume news media. I am also hyper-empathetic such that the suffering of any individual of any race, ability, or orientation makes me physically and mentally ill, leading to mental health challenges and suicidal ideation. I donate to charities and do a considerable amount of community service work when I'm not in lockdown - which I am currently. I cannot leave the house and hadn't spoken to my brother about his wife's vulnerability because we don't / can't have family gatherings for over a year now.

Calling me or anyone else "racist" without knowing our reasons for avoiding news media only makes the speaker seem prejudiced, entitled, and to be honest ... very privileged not to experience this hardship in their own lives.

I mentioned this topic to my brother and his Asian wife who both said that it's disgusting for anyone to shame another human being for speaking their truth, without taking the time to understand.

This thread seems to amount to exactly that - the guilting and shaming of AF members who have done nothing to indicate they hold racist beliefs. I hope an apology is soon issued to the OP and others who were lowkey humiliated by your words. This is supposed to be a support site, and I don't believe the rules have changed.

"Irresponsible" I don't think is necessarily a far cry from being "privileged", and "racist" is a slippery slope- no doubt.

Support doesn't necessarily mean we have to be positive 100% of the time. That is one time of support. Some of us like to be realistic about situations but guide people to a better life. That is my intention, and no ill will.

Some of us will have to just "agree to disagree" but thank you all for your courage to post in this thread.

 

[Fino]

Just to be clear, the discussion has mostly changed to a different but similar discussion about whether or not we are obligated to keep up with the news. This is different in that the original problem was that I was not aware of one particular news story that week. I could have been obsessed with the news every other week and only missed that one and it would have been the same result. Like a pop quiz.

 

[Fino]

If I were to disclose my diagnosis to an employer or ex-employer, would I be required to substantiate that with evidence, such as a medical record? I was thinking of making a thread for this, but then I thought maybe it could simply be answered here.

 

[VictorR]

If I were to disclose my diagnosis to an employer or ex-employer, would I be required to substantiate that with evidence, such as a medical record? I was thinking of making a thread for this, but then I thought maybe it could simply be answered here.

It varies. Let's say that an autistic individual works best in natural light, and has challenges working with florescent light, something which is not too unusual.

Employer A might say "we don't care and we don't want to know your diagnosis, just give us a doctor's note saying that you need, for medical reasons, to minimize work in florescent light." This is quite common as it's a safe way to ensure that an accommodation is met, but without being intrusive.

Employer B might say "Just tell us what you'd like and we'll take your word that's what's best for you."

Employer C might say "Since you already self-identified, if you wish to provide proof of that diagnosis we can look into potential solutions based on common needs."

Unless an employer and a manager / potential manager is open and receptive, I'm not a fan of open disclosure. You may also consider partial disclosure (e.g. only HR knows).

 

[Fino]

I see.

The reason I was thinking of disclosing is because throughout our various interviews and meetings, they consistently feel that I'm being rude and repeat, "See, this is the problem," but I haven't intended to be rude at any time. So I thought perhaps they would lighten up on their judgments if they knew. I feel as if they consider it rude anytime I state a fact, so I have no idea.

 

[Juliettaa]

I see.

The reason I was thinking of disclosing is because throughout our various interviews and meetings, they consistently feel that I'm being rude and repeat, "See, this is the problem," but I haven't intended to be rude at any time. So I thought perhaps they would lighten up on their judgments if they knew. I feel as if they consider it rude anytime I state a fact, so I have no idea.

I am really sorry to read your story @Fino. It sounds absolutely awful and that manager sounds unhinged.

I don't really have anything to add as it's already been said several times to seek legal advice.

I have always been 'pro disclosure' to an employer and after reading what you have endured has reinforced my belief. I'm only 'out' to the people who are senior to me and that have a direct impact on my daily working life - a need to know basis. And that it really helpful for me as like you, I can appear rude without any intention whatsoever. I'm just being honest/factual, but some NT's want hearts and flowers in communication and there's absolutely no way I can deliver that. What you get from me in terms of my work are robust judgement, facts and 100% correct data.

I realise that disclosure isn't for everyone, but in the UK, disclosing a disability affords protection under the Equalities Act. A bit late for you now and unfortunately it's a painful lesson for you to have learnt, but perhaps this will stand you in good stead for the future.

I applaud your restraint for not punching that hysterical, shouting maniac of a manager! Wishing you all the best.

 

[VictorR]

One of the bigger challenges is not really knowing what someone else is thinking, and how they might respond to a "bombshell" piece of information:

1) "We're so sorry, we didn't know! Let's do a reset and start over, okay?"
2) "Um okay, what does that mean?"
3) "What kind of excuse is this and why are you pulling this card out now and not earlier?"

I think many employers will fall in #2, but what scares me is that I think the number that fall in #3 is a lot greater than the number that fall in #1.

 

[Streetwise]

One of the bigger challenges is not really knowing what someone else is thinking, and how they might respond to a "bombshell" piece of information:

1) "We're so sorry, we didn't know! Let's do a reset and start over, okay?"
2) "Um okay, what does that mean?"
3) "What kind of excuse is this and why are you pulling this card out now and not earlier?"

I think many employers will fall in #2, but what scares me is that I think the number that fall in #3 is a lot greater than the number that fall in #1.

There's number four very common lie and they say you did something that would get you fired immediately the root is the love of money ,happened to my mother because she requested a heater which under disability law should have been provided, have no respect for the fire brigade now!

 

[Aspychata]

When my potential boss is on the spectrum, it's like an instant recognition that we are similar. My last two bosses were such. I wish l could just look in the aspie boss looking for employers.

But go out and out and conquer Fino. Many people have been fired and they become better for it. Just head right back out and reapply. Just state that your supervisor style of communication was difficult as things were always explained.