Flow and ASD?

[harrietjansson]

Think you need to be realistic in what challenges you try to succeed at.

Most people with Asperger's are extremely realistic?
This could be true. We who are not will therefore never be mentioned in the talks about asperger's and in asperger's awareness. I am even different from most "normals" and "aspies". I'm the outsider.
Do people experience this or is this just me? I don't really fit in any category.

 

[Judge]

Sounds like me I guess. I just get anxious and want to understand too much which really is asking me not to understand anything. You have to stop tying to understand certain things in order not to to feel frustrated.

Or become intensely resolute to overcome such frustration.

Where some are prone to simply giving up prematurely, while others simply cannot let it go.

Personally I often wonder how much my OCD may play into such an equation.

 

[harrietjansson]

Personally I often wonder how much my OCD may play into such an equation.

I have no OCD diagnosis so I guess it could be both OCD and ASD.

 

[Judge]

I have no OCD diagnosis so I guess it could be both OCD and ASD.

Interestingly enough I have no formal diagnosis for autism, but I do for OCD, chronic clinical depression and social anxiety. It never fails to amaze me how much comorbid considerations may play in a negative fashion versus possible traits and behaviors of autism alone.

For me OCD is a "double-edged sword". Involving both positive and negative considerations that force me to persevere at so many things, regardless of the frustration it inevitably causes. Where at work it can be an asset, and on my own time just a pain in the ass.

 

[Bort]

What does "flow" mean? Is is just being in the zone and everything flows smoothly? I don't really experience "flow" very often. When I do, it makes me feel almost invincible. I haven't hyper-focused on anything except maybe a tough assignment for school, so I can't say things flow for me when I'm hyper-focused. My special interests have sort of faded the last few years, and I'm hoping I'm in some sort of limbo right now and that a new interest will pop up at an unlikely time.

 

[Crossbreed]

Do you experience flow when you hyperfocus on something you're intrested in?
Is this the pleasure that people are supposed to experience when they hyperfocus on something they are interested in?

I tend to build from my strengths, but (for me) there seems to be two types of building,

1. ideal projects &
2. necessity projects.

Necessity has strict deadlines and stark consequences if you fail to meet them. They are a source of anxiety.

Ideal projects have more lax deadlines (if any).
I can cherry-pick my components and lay out a more thoughtful plan of attack.
There still might be complications, but they are like puzzles to solve rather than threats to my well-being.

 

[harrietjansson]

It never fails to amaze me how much comorbid considerations may play in a negative fashion versus possible traits and behaviors of autism alone.

interesting. Too many times I have said that the asperger diagnosis and how people talk about it don't describe much of my experience. I don't fit that well into the description of asperger's. This is why I say that most people refrain from talking about people like me. I mean, some don't live up to the descriptions. I guess I am "not normal" as an "aspie".
Am I alone in this?

 

[Bort]

interesting. Too many times I have said that the asperger diagnosis and how people talk about it don't describe much of my experience. I don't fit that well into the description of asperger's. This is why I say that most people refrain from talking about people like me. I mean, some don't live up to the descriptions. I guess I am "not normal" as an "aspie".

I feel similar in a lot of ways. I took a course about autism, and my professor theorized that perhaps in the future autism won't be so much a spectrum, but instead there will be different types of autism. Food for thought, I guess.

 

[harrietjansson]

I feel similar in a lot of ways. I took a course about autism, and my professor theorized that perhaps in the future autism won't be so much a spectrum, but instead there will be different types of autism. Food for thought, I guess.

different types of autism?
I don't really have an issue with the diagnostic criteria. The issues is more with other things said about asperger's. I do think many of my struggles are not described in the diagnosis.
Famous people who talk about ASD is Tony Attwood but I have heard that he can be offensive to some "aspies". To me it sounds as if he believes in stereotypes.

 

[Crossbreed]

...my professor theorized that perhaps in the future autism won't be so much a spectrum, but instead there will be different types of autism.

That would be a reversion to DSM4...

 

[Bort]

different types of autism?

It was a while ago that I took the course, but I think my prof meant that since people on the spectrum can vary greatly, he thought that perhaps autism won't so much be about being placed somewhere on a spectrum, but instead there will be various categories. Again, it was a while ago that I took the course, so I could be remembering things incorrectly or misinterpreting things.

 

[Bort]

That would be a reversion to DSM4...

Isn't the current one DSM-5?

 

[harrietjansson]

That would be a reversion to DSM4...

they called it a spectrum even in those day.

 

[Judge]

Too many times I have said that the asperger diagnosis and how people talk about it don't describe much of my experience. I don't fit that well into the description of asperger's. This is why I say that most people refrain from talking about people like me. I mean, some don't live up to the descriptions. I guess I am "not normal" as an "aspie".

I think *most people* refrain from discussing autism period.

That a very small number will want to understand and succeed in doing so. While a somewhat larger number will want to understand and fail. Leaving the vast majority to have little to no interest in learning about autism in whole or in part, expecting or demanding that a 2% minority conform to the 98% neurological majority.

Under such circumstances is it worth giving any weight to assertions of what constitutes a "normal" Aspie? I don't think so. Then consider a phrase frequently used within this community:

"If you've met one Aspie, then you've met one Aspie."

And consider the inherently ambiguous nature of the DSM-V relative to levels of autism. We're all over the place in terms of traits, behaviors and whatever abilities we have or don't have in existing in a Neurotypical world.

 

[Crossbreed]

Isn't the current one DSM-5?

Yes. That was the big, controversial change between DSM4 & 5.

they called it a spectrum even in those day.

DSM4 had five Pervasive Developmental Disorders,

1. Autistic Disorder [Kanner's/Classic],
   
2. Asperger's Syndrome,
   
3. Rett's Disorder,
4. Childhood Disintegrative Disorder &
5. Pervasive Development Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified

They were a family of diagnoses. #5 was for those who didn't fit neatly into #1-4 and could be any of the current three severities.

 

[harrietjansson]

"If you've met one Aspie, then you've met one Aspie."

When do I experience that people with autism talk about how a "normal aspie" is?
I think most people who say that they understand autism only understand certain types of autism and think that that is what autism is like. They only talk about a certain kind of autism without even being aware of it. This has happened in my life as well. I am guilty of this as well!

 

[watersprite]

Yes @harrietjansson I experience flow during several activities. It doesn’t happen like clockwork though. A lighthearted desire for a goal with a knowledgeable focus is required, enabling it to come about. And a good breakfast.

 

[Judge]

I think most people who say that they understand autism only understand certain types of autism and think that that is what autism is like.

You may be giving them too much credit even there.

 

[Skittlebisquit]

Maybe instead of saying how you don't fit a definition,[disprove a negative] it would be better to describe yourself, it terms of what is real for you. Like this:

I spent several hours recently looking for a part I needed to make a repair. I was sure I had it, i remembered it. Eventually I went out and bought a new part. Is this disorganized thinking or a memory problem?

So a simple example. A specific circumstance. A question based on the circumstance.

What is it that you are hyper focused on? There may be other words to use, that will make sense to more ppl here. In general it is easier for me to understand what is, rather than to try and use what is not as a selective filter.

 

[Barymore]

@harrietjansson do you mean flow as defined by mihaly csikszentmihalyi?

I believe I experience that - it is described as concentration with utter absorption.

According to him, surgeons, runners and musicians frequently experience this. It is associated with a feeling of losing oneself in a task, joy, and forgetting everything around oneself

I feel I enter that state regularly - for example when I am writing a longer text or researching studies on my particular interests. I forget the passage of time, my body, dont feel hunger, thirst or the need to pee, this can go on for hours. I always come out of it feeling grumpy, a bit iritated and the like - more so if it goes on for longer. This despite progressing in the task smoothly and efficiently. I have learned to set a timer so I come up for air and dont become too irritable.

Its a different feeling to runners high (which I absolutely love) or the feeling of - for want of a better term - eternal oneness in the moment that I feel when I meditate and / or hang out in nature.

I have wondered if the irritable part of flow when I do cognitive / intellectual tasks has to do with ASD / special interests (I can go practically nuclear if someone interrupts me when I am on a special interest.....). This because I have read a bit about flow and have not seen this mentioned.