DesolateImp96
New Member
Both made sense =]
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Frustrated and lost
- Thread starter DesolateImp96
- Start date
DesolateImp96
New Member
If I’m understanding this right. “Small talk” is key and by asking others for their input shows interest. Having a few general responses helps to make it easier.
“Fake it til you make it” I’ve heard it from several people but it doesn’t make sense unless I’m thinking too into it *nervous laugh*
“Fake it til you make it” I’ve heard it from several people but it doesn’t make sense unless I’m thinking too into it *nervous laugh*
Anthracite
Active Member
Awesome, then that is my achievement for the day xD
Just had flashback to a foot in mouth situation from last week.
Getting ready to go out for the day. Husband last to come downstairs (as usual, serial dawdler)
Him: 'Oh, you're ready before me'
Me: 'What's new? I don't mess about'. I then look in his direction 'hmmm, you don't look as fat as you did last week'
It's a good job he knows me well
DesolateImp96
New Member
My ex gf jokes like that with me all the time. Its funny, sometimes the “joke” flys over my head
I wasn't joking.
If I said that to an NT who didn't know me, I'm told it would be extremely offensive to tell someone they don't look as fat as they did last week.
But my literal thinking - he didn't look as fat so that's how it came outta my mouth. Oops.
DesolateImp96
New Member
My bad. I misinterpreted that.
In all honesty, I am a little amused by the initial responses to this thread. Being somewhat of a social imitation artist, I look at the conversation depicted in your opening post and immediately think: yup, this guy doesn't know what he's doing.
So it's a good thing you came here for advice, because you deserve friendship and understanding in your life.
But anyway, back to the first post.
Everybody looked at it and said that they didn't see anything wrong with it, and I just find this so funny! Lol, in a charming way that us Aspies always manage to be, since we are so genuine.
The conversation script is alright, until you mentioned you were on a diet. That was entering yellow territory. In general, you should avoid certain topics when making smalltalk; these include any subjects that have themes of being "too much", "too personal" , "too irrelevant", such as one's weight, one's diet, one's health, one's mental problems.. They make a person uncomfortable because they turn the conversation rudely in the direction of person who said it, and the only proper response the other person is left with is: "*offer supportive or encouraging statement, or feign interest, or tell them what they should or shouldn't do about their weight and diet problem*"
That was entering yellow territory. I avoid yellow territory unless I'm prepared to fake it well. As a female, I am permitted to mention that I'm on a diet so early on in the conversation IF and ONLY IF I execute it properly. For one, I can only choose that topic if I am speaking to another female. (A male would especially find it awkward to handle a woman who immediately starts telling him about her physical and diet health.) I might say, "I'm on a diet." And then immediately follow up with, "*exaggerated sigh or comical expression indicating angst* And oh my God.. It's SO hard!" Why follow up? Because simply telling another person I am on a diet is poor socializing. It's entering yellow territory because, while it's possible to recover the social situation in the case of the other person deftly maneuvering in working out a response, you've made things "Awkward" .
Red territory begins after the other person replies to your initial statement with minimal small talk (they were forced into a corner, in which they were forced to reply on the subject of YOUR choice), and you continued talking to them about your diet - as if they weren't even there.
When you socialize successfully, you take the other person into account. You consider their feelings, their experiences, their potential interests. You think: "What do we have in common? What is some common ground we can connect on?" If you're an Aspie, this can be incredibly challenging. I, for one, do not have much in common with others. We lead different lives on different planets. HOWEVER, there are certain tricks I have... For example, when I told another female about my diet in the paragraph above, I was appealing to her in a couple ways: 1) She, being female, is likely to understand the annoyance and hardship of restricting one's food intake. She is likely to feel empathetic towards me. 2) She is being approached in a subtle manner which puts her in charge of the situation. This may unconsciously please her - being seen as a mother figure whom others look towards for affirmation. I. E. When I complained in a lightly self-deprecating way (I implied I needed to lose weight, and also followed up with "I am trying but it is so hard to me"), she was reassured of her position in the social situation... I've tossed the ball back in her court, and I've given her plenty of free room to exert herself. She can comfortably choose from these options and more to reply: A) Offer empathy. "Ugh, girl, I feel your pain! Diets are so hard for me too." B) Offer reaffirming statement. "Oh, it's okay! Diets are hard." [She also understands why I want to lose weight. Females often do.] C) Offer advice. "Oh, have you tried this diet? It worked for me!" [She was presented with an opportunity to share her knowledge, expertise, or experience. Neurotypicals enjoy this too, believe it or not!] D) Offer fake sympathy. "Oh, you can't eat chocolate right now? That's horrible, lol!" [By making a brief subtle show of comical angst, in the last paragraph, I opened the door for her to laugh with me.] E) Offer support or encouragement. "Oh, you can do It! Hang in there." F) G) H) and so on and so forth... She has been put in a good position to respond.
You see, everybody wants to feel like they belong. They want to belong in a conversation..They want to feel that they can connect with others. Key words: "feel that they can"!!! You want to make the social situation easy for them. This is how you make friends. If you are easy to talk to, I. E. If you make the person feel like they can talk to you, you are on your way to being seen by that person as a prospective friend!
So it's a good thing you came here for advice, because you deserve friendship and understanding in your life.
But anyway, back to the first post.
Everybody looked at it and said that they didn't see anything wrong with it, and I just find this so funny! Lol, in a charming way that us Aspies always manage to be, since we are so genuine.
The conversation script is alright, until you mentioned you were on a diet. That was entering yellow territory. In general, you should avoid certain topics when making smalltalk; these include any subjects that have themes of being "too much", "too personal" , "too irrelevant", such as one's weight, one's diet, one's health, one's mental problems.. They make a person uncomfortable because they turn the conversation rudely in the direction of person who said it, and the only proper response the other person is left with is: "*offer supportive or encouraging statement, or feign interest, or tell them what they should or shouldn't do about their weight and diet problem*"
That was entering yellow territory. I avoid yellow territory unless I'm prepared to fake it well. As a female, I am permitted to mention that I'm on a diet so early on in the conversation IF and ONLY IF I execute it properly. For one, I can only choose that topic if I am speaking to another female. (A male would especially find it awkward to handle a woman who immediately starts telling him about her physical and diet health.) I might say, "I'm on a diet." And then immediately follow up with, "*exaggerated sigh or comical expression indicating angst* And oh my God.. It's SO hard!" Why follow up? Because simply telling another person I am on a diet is poor socializing. It's entering yellow territory because, while it's possible to recover the social situation in the case of the other person deftly maneuvering in working out a response, you've made things "Awkward" .
Red territory begins after the other person replies to your initial statement with minimal small talk (they were forced into a corner, in which they were forced to reply on the subject of YOUR choice), and you continued talking to them about your diet - as if they weren't even there.
When you socialize successfully, you take the other person into account. You consider their feelings, their experiences, their potential interests. You think: "What do we have in common? What is some common ground we can connect on?" If you're an Aspie, this can be incredibly challenging. I, for one, do not have much in common with others. We lead different lives on different planets. HOWEVER, there are certain tricks I have... For example, when I told another female about my diet in the paragraph above, I was appealing to her in a couple ways: 1) She, being female, is likely to understand the annoyance and hardship of restricting one's food intake. She is likely to feel empathetic towards me. 2) She is being approached in a subtle manner which puts her in charge of the situation. This may unconsciously please her - being seen as a mother figure whom others look towards for affirmation. I. E. When I complained in a lightly self-deprecating way (I implied I needed to lose weight, and also followed up with "I am trying but it is so hard to me"), she was reassured of her position in the social situation... I've tossed the ball back in her court, and I've given her plenty of free room to exert herself. She can comfortably choose from these options and more to reply: A) Offer empathy. "Ugh, girl, I feel your pain! Diets are so hard for me too." B) Offer reaffirming statement. "Oh, it's okay! Diets are hard." [She also understands why I want to lose weight. Females often do.] C) Offer advice. "Oh, have you tried this diet? It worked for me!" [She was presented with an opportunity to share her knowledge, expertise, or experience. Neurotypicals enjoy this too, believe it or not!] D) Offer fake sympathy. "Oh, you can't eat chocolate right now? That's horrible, lol!" [By making a brief subtle show of comical angst, in the last paragraph, I opened the door for her to laugh with me.] E) Offer support or encouragement. "Oh, you can do It! Hang in there." F) G) H) and so on and so forth... She has been put in a good position to respond.
You see, everybody wants to feel like they belong. They want to belong in a conversation..They want to feel that they can connect with others. Key words: "feel that they can"!!! You want to make the social situation easy for them. This is how you make friends. If you are easy to talk to, I. E. If you make the person feel like they can talk to you, you are on your way to being seen by that person as a prospective friend!
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I've struggled with this a lot and oscillated.
At first I would monologue and it was all about my interests. Then I tried to ask about them, but that went horribly wrong! It was more like an interrogation. In chronological order. I would start by asking about their education, their first jobs, where they lived, their marital status, children, future plans. Once I was told that my casual conversation borderlined on a job interview...
So now I try to find balance by reading a script that combines the fundamentals of small talk in combination with interview techniques. I shall call it, medium talk. It goes something like this:
F: hey
Me: hey what’s up
F: nothing much how about you?
Me: oh doing well (this is usually a lie), finally, the sun is out (small talk opener, don't talk about yourself and don't take their question literally)
F: yes, makes a nice change (sometimes they give information here)
Me: did you do anything nice this weekend? (starting to get personal)
F: not much, took the dog for a walk
Me: oh lovely (trying to sound like I mean it), what breed do you have (trying not to call it an "it")
Then, when you extract a small piece of information, that evening, note it down in a spreadsheet along with their first name if you remember it. Don't put last names in it or that's like creepy stalker territory, just revision notes. Don't let anyone see it!
Then, follow a similar pattern on the next conversation and learn a bit more, only give details if they SPECIFICALLY ask. For instance, if they ask how the diet is going, say "fine". Often NTs get scared and confused when offered the volume of information that aspies are comfortable with. For example, If I ask about someone's diet, I am interested in the exact calorie count per day, the specific achievements such as cholesterol improvements, their successes and failures. When NTs ask they want you to say "hard work but going well" and leave it at that.
But, you may wonder, will there ever be any substance to a conversation ever again? Well, probably not, but if you can make your peace with this then you'll start to make friends. And every now and again, say once per 5 years, one of them might surprise you by being interesting.
At first I would monologue and it was all about my interests. Then I tried to ask about them, but that went horribly wrong! It was more like an interrogation. In chronological order. I would start by asking about their education, their first jobs, where they lived, their marital status, children, future plans. Once I was told that my casual conversation borderlined on a job interview...
So now I try to find balance by reading a script that combines the fundamentals of small talk in combination with interview techniques. I shall call it, medium talk. It goes something like this:
F: hey
Me: hey what’s up
F: nothing much how about you?
Me: oh doing well (this is usually a lie), finally, the sun is out (small talk opener, don't talk about yourself and don't take their question literally)
F: yes, makes a nice change (sometimes they give information here)
Me: did you do anything nice this weekend? (starting to get personal)
F: not much, took the dog for a walk
Me: oh lovely (trying to sound like I mean it), what breed do you have (trying not to call it an "it")
Then, when you extract a small piece of information, that evening, note it down in a spreadsheet along with their first name if you remember it. Don't put last names in it or that's like creepy stalker territory, just revision notes. Don't let anyone see it!
Then, follow a similar pattern on the next conversation and learn a bit more, only give details if they SPECIFICALLY ask. For instance, if they ask how the diet is going, say "fine". Often NTs get scared and confused when offered the volume of information that aspies are comfortable with. For example, If I ask about someone's diet, I am interested in the exact calorie count per day, the specific achievements such as cholesterol improvements, their successes and failures. When NTs ask they want you to say "hard work but going well" and leave it at that.
But, you may wonder, will there ever be any substance to a conversation ever again? Well, probably not, but if you can make your peace with this then you'll start to make friends. And every now and again, say once per 5 years, one of them might surprise you by being interesting.
Wow, some impressively detailed responses here from @Zoie and @Bella Pines. The problem for me is that I can often understand in retrospect where I went well and where I went wrong through analysis, but during a conversation you have a split second to work all this out, and I just can't do that because it doesn't happen instinctively for me, so I just end up either pausing for a long time, stuttering, making false starts to sentences, or saying whatever I'm thinking, whether appropiate or not. Difficult, small talk just doesn't come naturally to me.
The OP's conversation is fairly typical of the sort of conversation I have, and I have been told that I'm 'egocentric', but I find it hard to think of conversation to make which flows naturally and isn't forced (I just hate forced conversation and am loathe to do it).
A bit of humour can help at time, for example, if I can't remember something, I make a joke about having 'early onset Altzheimer's'.
The OP's conversation is fairly typical of the sort of conversation I have, and I have been told that I'm 'egocentric', but I find it hard to think of conversation to make which flows naturally and isn't forced (I just hate forced conversation and am loathe to do it).
A bit of humour can help at time, for example, if I can't remember something, I make a joke about having 'early onset Altzheimer's'.
Similass.
Oh, Alzheimer's (no 't'). Thanks.
No, it's learned behavior! A few weeks ago I was merrily reciting from my script and said "Lovely weather isn't it?". There was an awkward pause, long enough for me to glance out the window, only to see a massive grey storm cloud and cold drizzle. I think they guy I was talking to assumed I was being sarcastic...
It is annoying though that we have to learn to converse without substance. I do suspect it boils down to NTs not being able to cope with details or a substantial amount of information.
DesolateImp96
New Member
Sorry have been busy with weekend plans and Monday work. Thank you both for those detailed responses...the level of nuance is ridiculous(in a good way) how do you manage to do it so fluidly?
Also autopilot (
Also autopilot (
DesolateImp96
New Member
Crap wasn’t finished. Should I make a new post or is it cool to talk about auto pilot?
I think I'm in love with this community already.
This is the kind of place where someone can correct another person, and that person is actually grateful for the clarification - as opposed to interpreting the helpful remark as a unwanted criticism, and acting all defiant in response.
This is the kind of place where you can point out a small error someone has made, and receive a reply of, "Oh--I see. Thanks."
Instead of, "Woooow who cares, it doesn't even matter, why are you trying to act like a freaking grammar nazi, who do you think you are, I don't need your smart ass help etcetera..."
I. E. Yay. ^__^
It's really challenging. Practice makes perfect. I think it's helpful if you can enter some sort of safe zone, where you are unconditionally accepted by employees. Like. . Okay, maybe getting a haircut once a month. You can sit down and practice making small talk there, in the same environment with the same stylist if you wish. But even if you get a different person every time, these people are all skillful social butterflies. It's part of their job to make fluid smalltalk, to keep the customer happy. They will respect you if you are on the quiet side, as they are paid to cut your hair and they understand some people are not in the mood to socialize. They may try to initiate smalltalk, but fortunately, they are quick to defuse any potentially awkward moments in the conversation. If you don't talk much or don't know what to say, they will respect your need for silence. They may conclude with something like, "Yeah, I'm a summer person myself. Love this time of year." (If you were making smalltalk about the weather.) They likely just closed the conversation, if this was followed by a beat of comfortable silence. You may smile and look down, or just say, "Nice" or "Yeah", and they will read this as their cue to be silent and just cut your hair.
Hair stylists will seldom try to force smalltalk. And they do not get offended by a customer who isn't engaged. If they get someone like this, then it's easier for them! They can just do their job.
FUN FACT I AM SUPER GRATEFUL FOR: One thing that hair stylists will almost always instruct you to do: "Okay, now tuck in your chin and look straight down at your lap for me. Just keep looking down and try to stay still" !!! I love this about getting haircuts, lol. (in order to get an accurate cut, they ask you to hold your head still and keep your eyes down so your head doesn't wobble much. At least they do this for people with long hair.)
Anthracite
Active Member
No wonder random people always give me "that" look and make their excuses to leave >.<
DesolateImp96
New Member
Could you explain similass and similad please
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