Gaseous Fuel

[Ronald Zeeman]

Had an interesting though, which current fuel can relace gasoline and diesel fuel without converting refiners,
and it hit me natural gas A previous position I had was a testing lab they developed a technology Called gaseous fuel injection
for diesel engines it worked, Is this the future rather than electricity still using combustion engines, batteries are not the future.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Natural gas is better than hydrogen , propane, no refining needed combustion engines cheap made from steel
no exotic materials. I can see this being the future.

 

[Outdated]

Natural gas is better than hydrogen , propane, no refining needed combustion engines cheap made from steel
no exotic materials. I can see this being the future.

It's actually the past. Australia introduced natural gas as an alternative fuel back in the 70s and for a while it was very popular, gas was less than half the price of petrol and that made it worthwhile even though engines running on gas require much more maintenance. (no top end lubrication)

When the use of natural gas as a car fuel became more popular and demand increased the price of gas went up to being more expensive than petrol and was no longer financially viable for the average consumer. In the 80s and 90s nearly every petrol station in Australia was also a gas refilling station, now you'll be lucky to find one or two in any of the major cities.

Using natural gas as an alternative still doesn't address the carbon emissions problem, it's still a hydrocarbon fuel.

This is one of the alternatives I think will become more practical in the future, they are currently being sold commercially in China as a trial that should give valuable data to the rest of the world.

Toyota Ammonia Engine: A Breakthrough in Automotive Technology -

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I worked at a testing lab owned by the provincial government they betted the farm on this for diesel engines for trucks, the choke point was a fast valve which they resolved after hiring a graduate student, who developed it
I remember taking a tour and the next issue was developing the right catalyst to reduce emissions, They may have resolved this as I saw buses in town using natural gas. I think the current tariff battle may change this dynamic. Oil is going to be a problem fuel, refining being the issue, At least as a hydro carbon it has the lowest carbon content. This was, thirty years ago. Pressure is on now,

 

[Outdated]

I remember taking a tour and the next issue was developing the right catalyst to reduce emissions....

That's also the biggest issue surrounding ammonia as a fuel, the emissions contain no carbon but nitrous oxide is not a very friendly gas either. The catalytic converter is a very important part of this technology and there will need to be systems put in place to regularly check the state of the catalytic converters to ensure that they are not faulty.

That's not a big issue though, many jurisdictions around the world already have systems in place to carry out regular roadworthy inspections of vehicles, in some states that is required every year as a part of the reregistration process. They just have to start checking catalytic converters as a part of the same testing.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I thing electric vehicles will hit a choke point with finite materials, steel is cheap can be easily recycled. So combustion engines are not going away any time soon. Getting the right fuel is key, I strongly suspect methane is it. plus burning it is better than letting it act as a green house gas. less potent then the carbon dioxide it burns into.

 

[Outdated]

I thing electric vehicles will hit a choke point with finite materials, steel is cheap can be easily recycled. So combustion engines are not going away any time soon. Getting the right fuel is key, I strongly suspect methane is it.

I think you're mostly right, except that methane is also a hydrocarbon. Methane is also a lot more expensive to produce at scale than ethanol which is currently used as an additive to petroleum to create a higher octane fuel. 98 octane fuel is usually 10% ethanol.

For a country like Australia with vast empty distances between towns electric charge stations for battery vehicles simply aren't viable, the infrastructure costs are insupportable. We can get away with small solar powered recharge stations for cars but it's an entirely different story for the moving of freight.

Australia is investing heavily in the ammonia technology, it's especially of interest to the mining industry.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I think the current beef the Americans have with their neighbours to the north, will cause a rethink as refiners are to costly to convert over and they have lots of natural gas. I do not think their is any long term plan, but this would make them more self sufficient. could convert the truck fleet fast an cheap cars a different story. Europe likes diesel
cars.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I think you're mostly right, except that methane is also a hydrocarbon. Methane is also a lot more expensive to produce at scale than ethanol which is currently used as an additive to petroleum to create a higher octane fuel. 98 octane fuel is usually 10% ethanol.

For a country like Australia with vast empty distances between towns electric charge stations for battery vehicles simply aren't viable, the infrastructure costs are insupportable. We can get away with small solar powered recharge stations for cars but it's an entirely different story for the moving of freight.

Australia is investing heavily in the ammonia technology, it's especially of interest to the mining industry.

View attachment 140959

Natural gas or methane is dirt cheap in USA, most is flamed at source. Just need more pipelines and compression stations.

 

[Outdated]

Natural gas or methane is dirt cheap in USA, most is flamed at source.

Yes, but it doesn't resolve the carbon emissions problem. We need an alternative to hydrocarbon fuels, using different types of hydrocarbon resolves nothing.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Natural gas or methane is dirt cheap in USA, most is flamed at source. Just need more pipelines and compression stations.

Up here we just finished building a pipeline and a couple of compression stations. Methane emissions are far worse than carbon dioxide emissions.

 

[Outdated]

Methane emissions are far worse than carbon dioxide emissions.

Yes. That's why refineries burn it instead of just allowing it to be released in to the atmosphere.

In Australia we're now experimenting with additives to cattle feed to try and reduce the amount they fart, they contribute a considerable amount to global carbon emissions.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Biggest source, now is permafrost releasing it as the earth warms, I doubt the Americans are going to send waste their money converting their refineries to handle own oil, cheaper to switch to natural gas. Natural gas take 14 year to break down in atmosphere at least carbon dioxide feed plants,

 

[Outdated]

Biggest source, now is permafrost releasing it as the earth warms,

Yes, and there's very little that we can do about that issue. As the world warms more permafrost is no longer going to be permanent.

Interesting side note - the methane trapped under the ice is from rotting grasses and plants. The fact that grasses and other plants used to grow where they now can not clearly proves that our current global warming event is not unique or a world first. Those areas of the far north weren't always covered in ice, they used to be rich in life.

Our current global warming event has been much more rapid than other historical events but it's not unprecedented.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Oxygen and carbon dioxide have been higher in distant past.