Ghosting

[AuAL]

I’ve been seeing some discussion recently about making friends - thanks to @Neri for posting some links to interesting videos. My concerns are more to do with losing friends. I have, over a number of years, had friends and colleagues “ghost” me. Some of these are people I have had friendly and productive relationships with over many years. For example, one had worked with me for some 15 years, we’d co-authored academic papers, co-edited a book, shared accommodation at international conferences and shared meals in each other’s houses, on opposite sides of the world. Then one year, at a conference, if she saw me coming, she’d walk away. She has refused to speak or communicate with me ever since. No explanation. This is, unfortunately, not an isolated incident (though perhaps one of the most hurtful.)

My partner has told me not to obsess over what I did wrong - “maybe she just didn’t see you as useful to her anymore.” (Can you guess? I am unconvinced.) Before I gained insight into my autism, this played into my schemas of defectiveness. Now, maybe, I can see it as a failing in social skills. But what did I miss? There have been other incidents that strongly bring to mind the song by Eric Burdon. (I heard it first from the Animals, not Nina Simone.) So I guess I’m hunting for clues about how to hear the whistle before I’m hit by the train.

 

[tree]

Spoiler: this one, maybe?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I don't know if my personal experience will be of any help here, but I do understand what you're going through. People come and go in my life, even family. At least my understanding of what a true friend is, is someone in which you are bonded to in the sense that they are in your mind, your thoughts throughout the day. If you can't spend time with them, you are talking on the phone with them, as well as texting daily. Interacting with them energizes you. These are the people you can trust and confide in, knowing that they will keep your secrets, you keep theirs. These are the people who, if you call them at 03:00 in the middle of the night, they will be there for you. My wife is the only person that fits that description in my life, otherwise, I've never experienced it with anyone else.

I can say that I have had, and do have, many people in my life that I enjoy being around and make me smile, but they are "good acquaintances" and not really friends. We aren't going out after work. We aren't talking on the phone or texting in our free time. None of that. I suspect a good part of that is my own doing. Frankly, the whole idea of having a good friend, despite the potential benefits, to me, sounds mentally exhausting in terms of the "maintaining of the relationship". As a result, I don't bond with people, for the most part. I enjoy my solitude. I don't feel loneliness. Even when I am around people, I can take a small dose of socialization, then I find myself slinking away to be by myself. I can do 2-3 shifts at work, and then the next day, I am napping trying to recover. I can do 1 day of lectures and lab with my students at the university, and it wipes me out. Anything after 16:00, and I might as well be a zombie. I can do my job, but let's not talk.

So, it may be, from a neurotypical's perspective, from the outside looking in, that as an autistic, we may appear to be "unfriendly", and I suppose, by definition, that might hold true even though we can have our moments where we can be quite cordial with each other. Perhaps if people are expecting a "bit more" from the relationship in terms of our "maintaining the relationship", and we aren't following through, this might be falsely interpreted as "dislike" or "rejection", when it might not be. Some people don't understand the idea of not having contact for months or years, and then picking up the relationship again as if there were no time gap, which I can do, but clearly not for others.

 

[Tom]

In this one case (co-author) it's impossible to form an opinion, as there aren't any clues whatsoever to what brought about her change in behavior.

If she is uncommunicative perhaps there is a mutual aquaintence that might know or be able to find out why. Finding out why however would only be useful if there really was some misunderstanding that could be cleared up.

 

[Judge]

I’ve been seeing some discussion recently about making friends - thanks to @Neri for posting some links to interesting videos. My concerns are more to do with losing friends. I have, over a number of years, had friends and colleagues “ghost” me. Some of these are people I have had friendly and productive relationships with over many years. For example, one had worked with me for some 15 years, we’d co-authored academic papers, co-edited a book, shared accommodation at international conferences and shared meals in each other’s houses, on opposite sides of the world. Then one year, at a conference, if she saw me coming, she’d walk away. She has refused to speak or communicate with me ever since. No explanation. This is, unfortunately, not an isolated incident (though perhaps one of the most hurtful.)

My partner has told me not to obsess over what I did wrong - “maybe she just didn’t see you as useful to her anymore.” (Can you guess? I am unconvinced.) Before I gained insight into my autism, this played into my schemas of defectiveness. Now, maybe, I can see it as a failing in social skills. But what did I miss? There have been other incidents that strongly bring to mind the song by Eric Burdon. (I heard it first from the Animals, not Nina Simone.) So I guess I’m hunting for clues about how to hear the whistle before I’m hit by the train.

Having read your post, I can't help but ask the following question.

Is it possible that your being ghosted is the result of some professional differences expressed by others in the world of academia, or do you truly believe it is personal, based perhaps on autistic traits and behaviors?

Not that I have any specific advice, but that I suspect it may have to do far more with the former consideration than the latter one based on the working environment you exist in. Something I suspect Albert Einstein once had to grapple with during some very difficult times of his life, both personally and professionally. Autistic or not...

 

[AuAL]

In this one case (co-author) it's impossible to form an opinion, as there aren't any clues whatsoever to what brought about her change in behavior.

If she is uncommunicative perhaps there is a mutual aquaintence that might know or be able to find out why. Finding out why however would only be useful if there really was some misunderstanding that could be cleared up.

This was what was frustrating - from my perspective, there didn’t seem to be clues. OK, one year she “greeted” me in our first meeting at a conference by berating me for not responding to a request to review a journal paper for her. I tried to explain that I meant to do it, but didn’t get around to it (chronic procrastination), but didn’t send back a refusal because I meant to do it. The next year she complained that she’d seen us all going to the beach the year before, after conference sessions had ended, and we hadn’t invited her. I wasn’t even staying at the conference hotel, but a cheaper hotel over a kilometre away. I invited her to come out with us that year but she refused. (Not to a beach that time - we were in Beijing.)
Reaching out to a mutual acquaintance may have worked, but it’s been 5 years - I think that boat has sailed. Thanks for the suggestion - I’ve never tried it because that would mean opening up to someone else about a painful, personal situation.

 

[AuAL]

Having read your post, I can't help but ask the following question.

Is it possible that your being ghosted is the result of some professional differences expressed by others in the world of academia, or do you truly believe it is personal, based perhaps on autistic traits and behaviors?

Not that I have any specific advice, but that I suspect it may have to do far more with the former consideration than the latter one based on the working environment you exist in. Something I suspect Albert Einstein once had to grapple with during some very difficult times of his life, both personally and professionally. Autistic or not...

I hadn’t discounted the professional differences line of thinking altogether - as per the “not useful to her anymore”. If that were the case, perhaps her loss - I have since been named in Stanford’s list of the leading 2% of scientists globally. But other examples, other friendship collapses in different contexts, make me think more of the personal failings aspects and I am searching through thoughts about autistic traits, a new perspective for me.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Some people don't understand the idea of not having contact for months or years, and then picking up the relationship again as if there were no time gap

All but one of my friends (sample size: 6) fall into this category. Not lack of understanding - going long intervals.

 

[Hypnalis]

This was what was frustrating - from my perspective, there didn’t seem to be clues. OK, one year she “greeted” me in our first meeting at a conference by berating me for not responding to a request to review a journal paper for her. I tried to explain that I meant to do it, but didn’t get around to it (chronic procrastination), but didn’t send back a refusal because I meant to do it. The next year she complained that she’d seen us all going to the beach the year before, after conference sessions had ended, and we hadn’t invited her. I wasn’t even staying at the conference hotel, but a cheaper hotel over a kilometre away. I invited her to come out with us that year but she refused. (Not to a beach that time - we were in Beijing.)
Reaching out to a mutual acquaintance may have worked, but it’s been 5 years - I think that boat has sailed. Thanks for the suggestion - I’ve never tried it because that would mean opening up to someone else about a painful, personal situation.

Your answer is probably here in the quoted text: a progressive loss of trust.

You almost certainly had an opportunity to resolve this, but chose not to take it.

 

[AuAL]

Your answer is probably here in the quoted text: a progressive loss of trust.

You almost certainly had an opportunity to resolve this, but chose not to take it.

Maybe there was an opportunity - I had tried to talk to her, sent email, written letters of apology, cards, asked if I could see her when I was visiting her country. Perhaps I’m just not very good at this. If I could have fixed this somehow but failed it will be of lasting regret to me. It already is.

 

[Cassandra65]

I’ve been seeing some discussion recently about making friends - thanks to @Neri for posting some links to interesting videos. My concerns are more to do with losing friends. I have, over a number of years, had friends and colleagues “ghost” me. Some of these are people I have had friendly and productive relationships with over many years. For example, one had worked with me for some 15 years, we’d co-authored academic papers, co-edited a book, shared accommodation at international conferences and shared meals in each other’s houses, on opposite sides of the world. Then one year, at a conference, if she saw me coming, she’d walk away. She has refused to speak or communicate with me ever since. No explanation. This is, unfortunately, not an isolated incident (though perhaps one of the most hurtful.)

My partner has told me not to obsess over what I did wrong - “maybe she just didn’t see you as useful to her anymore.” (Can you guess? I am unconvinced.) Before I gained insight into my autism, this played into my schemas of defectiveness. Now, maybe, I can see it as a failing in social skills. But what did I miss? There have been other incidents that strongly bring to mind the song by Eric Burdon. (I heard it first from the Animals, not Nina Simone.) So I guess I’m hunting for clues about how to hear the whistle before I’m hit by the train.

I too have lost a number of friends for no apparent reason over the last few years, most have just ghosted me for no apparent reason. This includes people I've known for over 40 years. In the past I've asked people why they're angry with me and been snarled at that 'I already know' (clearly not or I wouldn't be asking!!). I really struggle to navigate my way through the maelstrom of human relationships, behaviours and emotions, and have definite tendencies to self-isolate as a response. Very tempted to restrict my socialising to animals! At least you're lucky enough to have a wife on your side!

 

[Cryptid]

I remember these words from my high school commencement: "Look around . . . you will never have as many friends as you have right now . . . you are seeing most of these people for the very last time . . ."

Contact with those people dropped to near zero as soon as I walked off the field. Five years later, I hardly recognized anyone at the reunion, and no one recognized me. The fifty-year reunion is due next year, and I am not going.

The friends I have come and go, and most of my current relationships are superficial outside my family. As I grow older, opportunities to make friends my age who share some of my interests are decreasing -- even meeting people my own age is becoming rarer.

That's life. Get used to it.

 

[Slime_Punk]

I think it should be pretty easy to see that the person with the problem is the problem. This isn't to say that they're not 100% justified in distancing themselves from you, it's just that the ball was in their court and they ran off with it.

The times when you don't have an explanation (aka 'ghost' scenarios) are kind of the worst variety, too. I think the person wants you to ask, "What did I do wrong?" and never really have a definite answer. It takes courage to say, "I can't be your friend, you ruined my trust. I'm sorry".

I've been the 'ghoster' many times, sometimes for reasons I don't even understand. Trust me when I say it's a cowardly move, takes zero strength and only hurts others. I feel bad for all the times I've done it, personally.

 

[Hypnalis]

Maybe there was an opportunity - I had tried to talk to her, sent email, written letters of apology, cards, asked if I could see her when I was visiting her country. Perhaps I’m just not very good at this. If I could have fixed this somehow but failed it will be of lasting regret to me. It already is.

I can probably unwrap more of this for you, but of course I can't change the past, nor can I help with your current feelings of regret.

Let me know if you want to look closer at what happened.

NB: There's no "supportive therapy" aspect to my side. I may be able to help you develop a better and more generally applicable descriptive scenario. It's on you whether it makes you feel better or not.

 

[Rodafina]

My partner has told me not to obsess over what I did wrong

Usually, in a "ghosting" situation, there is simply not enough information to analyze and use in a meaningful way. I think your partner may be on to something and perhaps your time is better spent addressing your propensity to obsess over such things as opposed to actually trying to figure out what happened.

Rumination is a common habit among humans and learning to let things go can be a very useful skill.

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-stop-ruminating

 

[AuAL]

Usually, in a "ghosting" situation, there is simply not enough information to analyze and use in a meaningful way. I think your partner may be on to something and perhaps your time is better spent addressing your propensity to obsess over such things as opposed to actually trying to figure out what happened.

Rumination is a common habit among humans and learning to let things go can be a very useful skill.

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-stop-ruminating

@Rodafina, for me rumination has become an artform. It was part of the reason I was in the therapy that led to my self-realisation of my autism. Thanks for the link - it talks a lot of sense, if I am able to act on it.

 

[Rodafina]

...rumination has become an artform. It was part of the reason I was in the therapy...

Same here. Our brains can be sometimes very uncooperative.

 

[AuAL]

I can probably unwrap more of this for you, but of course I can't change the past, nor can I help with your current feelings of regret.

Let me know if you want to look closer at what happened.

NB: There's no "supportive therapy" aspect to my side. I may be able to help you develop a better and more generally applicable descriptive scenario. It's on you whether it makes you feel better or not.

I am reconciled to the fact I cannot change the past and must live with my regret. (I live with so many.) Part of my regret is that I try to live my life by never giving offence unintentionally. My intention in starting this thread was to try and understand the how and why of why this keeps happening to me - you have helped me in that respect, with respect to this particular incident. My thanks for that.

 

[AuAL]

I think the person wants you to ask, "What did I do wrong?"

Asked this exact question. No answer :/

 

[Hypnalis]

Asked this exact question. No answer :/

From my perspective - based on what you've said - this is a very strange post.

You're describing something where the "internal status" is very sequence and time dependent.
Asking that question at the wrong time or out of sequence would make things worse.

I guess I’m hunting for clues about how to hear the whistle before I’m hit by the train.

Are you sure that's what you're looking for?