Gibes and bigotry against “NT”s

[Raggamuffin]

There's too much of an "us and them" mentality. Which isn't very helpful. I agree that NT seems somewhat insulting. It's use sometimes comes across as derrogatory on this site. Plus I wonder at times if there's an enabling air. In that our struggles etc. we could pin to this condition, or that condition. But I don't think we should be too quick to absolve our ownership and wish to improve upon our situations. Saying I do x, y and z because of this condition disempowers us I think.

Ed

 

[1ForAll]

Most of the people I love and admire are so-called “neurotypicals.” Friends, family, writers, scientists, artists, radicals, outcasts, philosophers, poets, etc. - the vast, vast, vast majority are not autistic. Honestly I think so many people on the forum need to check themselves. Autistic people aren’t special. We’re not superior. We’re not better.

We’re just people.

The very term “neurotypical” is rather insulting, if not downright bigoted, if you think about it. You’re autistic - you’re not cooler, you’re not more special, you’re not better, you’re not smarter, you’re not more artistic, you’re not funnier, you’re not better in any way at all.

Just my opinion, but those very offensive persons you talk about here are not just being offensive to typical non-Autistic persons, but to those with Autism as well. And the irony is that these obnoxious persons will either not reply to the nicer and fairer members with empathy, who were trying to assist them, and they will block them, ignore them, or try to act superior to them through their belittling or pompous ways.

And you know why they may do this? They are so insecure, thinking those others are better than them, that instinct is to either flood the forum with attention seeking posts, victimization or manipulation-of-the-facts tactics, if not just have some other condition with very distorted views. Yes, some Autistics are not the nicest, but they are not any different than the general population that has their equal share of j***s.

Also, some of the offenders here may not even be Autistic at all if what they tell the forum is exaggeration, manipulation or fiction, or if their words and actions show some other undiagnosed condition more instead than the Autism. So, please keep in mind that any narcissistic, attention seeking, shallow or distorted view behavior could be personality based, or not even Autistic related.

So, how should one deal with them? Report to moderator, give constructive public post critique if warranted, needed or if the offense seems not a pattern, ignore, block, or do not feed their distortions, lies, biases, or huge egos by replying if past attempts went nowhere. I am good at figuring these persons out and not rewarding that rigid or immature behavior, once I see those offensive others cannot change or admit wrongs there.

Now, if one was Albert Einstein or similar coming to this forum here, then fine, I'd at least listen to that very respected member/person, if they said or acted like they were intellectually better than most people, or if they said or acted like most people are beneath them there. But, you know what? That respected expert would have likely been smart enough to know saying or acting such to this forum that "I am superior" is not so smart.

So, yeah, if you come here and say you are the smartest/ best at something (that nobody is above you), and most all are beneath you, expect fair backlash, as those type of arrogant statements implies to me they are not superior to most, unless they supported in detail their strange assertions or had some excellent resume supporting such. I do not think any here meets those standards. That's not even up for debate. So, claiming such shows a fool.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

I dislike the terms "neurotypical" and "neurodiverse" in a purely etymological sense. To begin with, a lot of people deal with mental health issues which "restructure" the brain in some way, like PTSD (which can have a profound impact on its structure). The brain has a lot of inbuilt plasticity so it is always changing, new neuronal pathways are being created and others are removed. Even ignoring normal developmental changes throughout your life, I still suspect "neurotypicals" are not in a very large majority. People with autism are not the only ones who mask. I have also heard that term used by people struggling with depression, PTSD and psychopaths (though in their case it is perhaps closer to "faking it" as they tend not to be anxious).

I'm also a bit annoyed by how it is used. Here on the forum, it tends to be used to mean "people who don't have autism", but speaking practically, we would be a minority of neurodiverse people, and often don't have much in common with other neurodiverse individuals. To me it is a bit like telling someone that you are LGBT, when you really mean you are bisexual. Sure, you aren't wrong, but it would be much more informative to say you are bi. A few family members and several acquanitances of mine have ADHD, yet I doubt most people here are talking about them when they use ND. I prefer saying "non-autistic" or "not on the spectrum" instead of neurotypical. It takes a few more keystrokes, but it prevents misunderstandings and I feel less uncomfortable.

 

[Misery]

It takes a few more keystrokes,

This does become part of the problem though. For some.

Particularly for those that cant fully type, the longer version adds to the time taken, which can be a good bit during long conversations. It's why some people on the net will say "u" instead of "you", for instance. It seems like an insignificant and silly way of doing it but when you're doing the slow double poke sort of typing and having lots of conversations it all does add up. And some are much slower at that kind of typing than others.

To me personally the NT/ND thing is mostly just a convenient term, used since no other, better convenient term has shown up yet, and because most people here understand right away what it means. NT in particular is a very hard to replace term. You equate it to the LGBT abbreviation, but the problem is that "NT" does not have any sub-categories. It IS the category, the only one of its type. It simply means "does not fit into the ND category".

That's probably why it comes up way more than "ND". Even I will usually say "NT" when referring to those not on the spectrum, but I will say "autistic" when referring to most here, simply because there's a baffling array of sub categories that fall into the "ND" group, so specification is needed.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Nitro]

For anyone who is actually interested, here is our forum warning list we use to cover many of the topics mentioned in this thread:

As staff members, we do a lot of reading here just to keep as much of it as humanly possible in check.

We also rely heavily on our reporting system so we can get the membership's input as well.

Since my beginnings here, we have utilized a forgive before forgetting policy which enables us to make adjustments to posts, often with little to no consequences to the members involved.

Repeat customers often earn the rewards listed above with the ultimate one a shiny new ten pointer that earns a user an all expense paid permanent vacation courtesy of your vigilant staff.

She can correct me if I am wrong, but I honestly believe the OP is referring to blatant use of the word NT as a mechanism to dispense hatred, not the actual word in itself.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

This does become part of the problem though. For some.

Particularly for those that cant fully type, the longer version adds to the time taken, which can be a good bit during long conversations. It's why some people on the net will say "u" instead of "you", for instance. It seems like an insignificant and silly way of doing it but when you're doing the slow double poke sort of typing and having lots of conversations it all does add up. And some are much slower at that kind of typing than others.

To me personally the NT/ND thing is mostly just a convenient term, used since no other, better convenient term has shown up yet, and because most people here understand right away what it means. NT in particular is a very hard to replace term. You equate it to the LGBT abbreviation, but the problem is that "NT" does not have any sub-categories. It IS the category, the only one of its type. It simply means "does not fit into the ND category".

That's probably why it comes up way more than "ND". Even I will usually say "NT" when referring to those not on the spectrum, but I will say "autistic" when referring to most here, simply because there's a baffling array of sub categories that fall into the "ND" group, so specification is needed.

Just my thoughts on it.

Thank you for the input. I agree that there is a difference between NT and ND, in that NT is a more specialized. My problem with it is that when people here use NT, they don't just tend to mean "neurotypicals" which I don't think is a particularly large majority, but rather "everyone who is not autistic". The latter meaning would not only entail all NTs, but also the majority of ND people which is why the distinction doesn't make much sense to me unless the discussion is specifically about mental health concerns and discrimination which has to do with all neurodiverse people.

I take your point about convenience though, and I get why people use the terms. I personally prefer accuracy over expediency, but I also understand that people are different and some legitimately have difficulty typing, so I'm glad you brought it up.

 

[Aspychata]

Then just throw in people's ability to communicate via the written word in a way that won't come across as insensitive, which is actually something that we as a group may not be known for, given our ability to be incredibly blunt. I don't envy the forum staff's position in having to step in and mitigate our conversations.

But thankfully, they are here to help guide us.

 

[Outdated]

When this thread first started yesterday it made me very angry, not at @Kalinychta but at myself. They are right and I'm also guilty.

Pleading all the mitigating circumstances that pop in to my head still doesn't make it right.

 

[Fino]

Part of the problem may be correlational. We suffer much at the hands of people, and they all happen to be neurotypical, so we associate them being neurotypical with their behavior, but in actuality their cruel behavior is indicative of them being human, and they all happen to be neurotypical because most people are neurotypical.

Like you, everyone I admire and love is neurotypical. I do work with the neurodiverse, though, which I prefer. I find them easier to understand, easier to talk to, and, therefore, easier to help.

 

[Aspychata]

This does become part of the problem though. For some.

Particularly for those that cant fully type, the longer version adds to the time taken, which can be a good bit during long conversations. It's why some people on the net will say "u" instead of "you", for instance. It seems like an insignificant and silly way of doing it but when you're doing the slow double poke sort of typing and having lots of conversations it all does add up. And some are much slower at that kind of typing than others.

To me personally the NT/ND thing is mostly just a convenient term, used since no other, better convenient term has shown up yet, and because most people here understand right away what it means. NT in particular is a very hard to replace term. You equate it to the LGBT abbreviation, but the problem is that "NT" does not have any sub-categories. It IS the category, the only one of its type. It simply means "does not fit into the ND category".

That's probably why it comes up way more than "ND". Even I will usually say "NT" when referring to those not on the spectrum, but I will say "autistic" when referring to most here, simply because there's a baffling array of sub categories that fall into the "ND" group, so specification is needed.

Just my thoughts on it.

Thanks Misery for putting your thoughts down here. That was what l felt but couldn't splice into a post. Great job. We do use terms and it's like a quick label to say this and that. It's not us using it in a derogatory fashion. I use NT and it holds zero connotation in my mind. I don't think anything except that it describes all the people that aren't autistic, nothing more, nothing less. As other people stated, there are great and horrible people in ND and NT spectrum.
Sometimes l just feel like l am in a foreign country and l don't speak the same language as NT's do. But it's neither bad or good, it's just my journey as a learning process.

 

[Magna]

There are good points being made in this thread about NTs being good people for the most part just as all people, for the most part, are good.

I think what happens a lot with negative feelings autistic people sometimes have about NTs is that out of all the good things NTs are and can be, @Kalinychta , some have often been the bullies to autistic people. It's a fact that autistic people are often victims of bullies. Ask most anyone on here. Ask me. The error of victimized autistic people lies in then thinking that ALL NTs are bullies (of course they're not. Most are not). Applying a bias to any group based on one's experiences with individuals is wrong and inaccurate (e.g. "All men are trash because...").

Are NTs generally oblivious to, not mindful of, not sympathetic to autistic people and their struggles? Yes. Inarguably, yes. Clearly not all NTs are like this and some are even advocates for autism; but certainly enough have been like this for many autistic people to form this view. Are autistic people wrong to be offended when this kind of thing happens? Absolutely not. Should NTs be more mindful of and respectful of others who are not neurotypical and as such, who struggle in an NT dominated world? Absolutely.

 

[Jordy]

So essentially just misanthropy?

 

[Jordy]

Just because people have both good and bad sides, that doesn't mean everyone is going to experience those sides equally. An autistic may overwhelmingly see the bad sides of people who also have good sides. From their perspective the goodness of people is reserved for people who deserve it more, which may feel even worse than people just being all bad.

 

[Darkkin]

Interactions are a two way street requiring action and reaction, Newton's Second Law, whether on is ND or NT.

Put reasonable energy in, generally you get reasonable energy back. Walk around with a chip the size of a mammoth on your shoulder because the world 'owes' you, the rest of the indebted 'world' is going to shove right back, uncaring of one's neurotype.

I notice a person being crappy once. I let it go. I see the behaviour again under different context, nope. I will call out the behaviour. But that drama is not worth my time or energy. Other people want to get involved with it that is their choice. Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

People make a conscious choice to be petty or openly cruel and unpleasant. To weaponize words through crappy behaviour.

Call out the behaviour, call out the person doing it, but do not indulge bridge denizens with more attention.

Keep in mind the behaviour is a choice, a deliberate choice to be cruel and inhumane to others. It is not an 'unconscious defense mechanism' in a cognizant adult. Discrimination of any sort is not a defensive mechanism like the hissing and spitting of a terrified feral kitten. It is a deliberate action rooted in ignorance and hate.

Consider that how a person behaves when they are anonymous (say on the internet or part of a mob) will tell you more about that person's character than years of 'public' interactions.

 

[Kalinychta]

As a staff member, I do battle with the supremacy stances on a regular basis.
So many that complain about division are the first to point it out.

We are not better or lesser than the status quo, we are both merely different.

It astounds me how many feel feel that either side of the fence are able to do complex psych evaluations at a glance.
That to me is utter nonsense.

Exactly. For goodness sakes. People on the forum should also remember that not everyone here is autistic...

 

[Kit]

I have been judged and treated just as badly by people on the spectrum online same as by people who were NT while growing up. We're no different.

 

[Aspychata]

Has society changed on the whole? Irregardless of whether we are NT or ND?

I believe so. So perhaps some people just need a group to blame which is really quite common in society. Covid came along, and sadly, certain people were targeted. Some groups of society are targeted repeatedly. Definitely being assigned a label can backfire.

 

[Judge]

Has society changed on the whole? Irregardless of whether we are NT or ND?

I believe so. So perhaps some people just need a group to blame which is really quite common in society. Covid came along, and sadly, certain people were targeted. Some groups of society are targeted repeatedly. Definitely being assigned a label can backfire.

Ruthlessly discriminating against others on a broad scale seems very much en vogue these days. More so than in the recent past. Yet it's a very, very old and failed practice while it continues to appeal to a great number of people whether they reflect a social minority or majority. As a species, we all have similar baser instincts to manage- or let run wild.

Not the best of times...

 

[Shaddock]

I don´t care about anything but personality and behavior tbh. so I don´t care if someone is autistic or not. I saw both, unsocial autistic people and unsocial non-autistic people. and I have friends of both, but mostly "NT", because there are more "NT" out there. I saw never a connection to the fact if we find each sympathetic or not. + autism is a spectrum.

I don´t like someone more or less, whether he is autistic or not.

Now I aint an expert, but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that this here is often the real source of the problem for many on the spectrum.

Being stuck in a world run by too many people who A: dont understand, B: refuse to even try to understand, and then follow those up with C: demand you to conform... or else. And often, they wont try to help with C there. Or even give you a manual. Or a logical reason for WHY. This often leads to D: a lot of yelling and insults because you didnt magically fall into line with C.

Too much of that over too long and it's inevitable, for many, that resentment builds up.

I agree

I prefer saying "non-autistic" or "not on the spectrum" instead of neurotypical.

me too. I say "NT" (with ""). or "non-autistic", lol.