Girl Warriors

[Cali Cat]

Wonder Woman fullfills a male fantasy, she is so hypersexualized, and consequently I will never look up to her or aspire to be like her. It would have meant aspiring to be a sexual object, whether for men or women.

But that's the thing, she isn't just a sexual object. That was sort of the point of the creator as I understand it. She has the appeal of a sexual being, but she is not one to be used by men. She is unattainable. She is in charge of her own destiny, and she can rival her male counterpart heroes in dispensing justice.

If it's about female superheroes, I guess Noriko Ashida for me. She is no Emma Frost (who eventually grew on me) but no Jean Grey either. In fact, she might as well have been a boy, since her characterization isn't specifically spun around feminine stereotypes.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but why is it preferable that a woman be sexless (or boyish) in order to be worthy of admiration and emulation? Personally, I feel a woman's sexual appeal is a great power; therefore, it is worthwhile and a desirable quality to mirror to the best of one's ability.

 

[Ylva]

Yes, you do, unless that is code for "I don't want your answer". She is still a male fantasy, or maybe a gynephile's fantasy; if you try a woman's fantasy, most of the time it won't look like a sexdoll, or dress in bikini battle gear.

As for Nori, she isn't boyish, she just doesn't play to traditional sexual fantasies. As in, she'll wear a sweater or full uniform sometimes and she'll make her own decisions. No lordin' it over men with her cleavage or sacred virginity.

 

[Cali Cat]

Yes, you do, unless that is code for "I don't want your answer".

I am way too intelligent to ask questions for which I am not prepared to hear a perfectly honest answer, so do not presume my motives. (This comment is me being confrontational by the way.)

For one thing, the OP wants to know why women do not relate to the Uber Woman in comics, and I'm curious as well; therefore I asked because you obviously hold an opposing view to the OP and me.

She is still a male fantasy, or maybe a gynephile's fantasy;if you try a woman's fantasy, most of the time it won't look like a sexdoll, or dress in bikini battle gear.

I guess I'm not like most women then (something I already knew actually), because I think like a man. My personal fantasy of myself as the Uber Woman is to be a sexdoll and dress in bikini-like battle gear. Of course, at my age, that is not a possibility. I'd look ridiculous. But, it's a fantasy ... and I can enjoy it just like men enjoy Uber Men heroes.

Wonder Woman is not my favorite superheroine by any means, but I certainly enjoy other "hypersexualized" female characters. I am neither offended nor intimidated by them. I would not consider myself any kind of "gynephile" either. It's not that I am attracted to that kind of woman. I'm straight as an arrow. No, I want to be that kind of woman, just like guys want to be their favorite superhero. I have the same sense of myself as men have of themselves. I don't find sexiness demeaning in any way, whether it is in male or female form.

As for Nori, she isn't boyish, she just doesn't play to traditional sexual fantasies. As in, she'll wear a sweater or full uniform sometimes and she'll make her own decisions. No lordin' it over men with her cleavage or sacred virginity.

May I remind you of your own words: "... she might as well have been a boy, since her characterization isn't specifically spun around feminine stereotypes." You are the one who claimed she may as well have been male.

I don't understand why some women are so frightened of the differences between men and women, and why shouldn't we use our inherent feminine virtues to our advantage when dealing with men? Are women hoping that if they don't use their powers over men that men will somehow return the favor? What is the fear that keeps women hiding one of the greatest powers they possess?

I simply don't understand the push by feminists to "desexualize" everything.

 

[Shiznown]

Yes, you do, unless that is code for "I don't want your answer". She is still a male fantasy, or maybe a gynephile's fantasy; if you try a woman's fantasy, most of the time it won't look like a sexdoll, or dress in bikini battle gear.

As for Nori, she isn't boyish, she just doesn't play to traditional sexual fantasies. As in, she'll wear a sweater or full uniform sometimes and she'll make her own decisions. No lordin' it over men with her cleavage or sacred virginity.

Subjective reality.

 

[Shiznown]

I am way too intelligent to ask questions for which I am not prepared to hear a perfectly honest answer, so do not presume my motives. (This comment is me being confrontational by the way.)

For one thing, the OP wants to know why women do not relate to the Uber Woman in comics, and I'm curious as well; therefore I asked because you obviously hold an opposing view to the OP and me.



I guess I'm not like most women then (something I already knew actually), because I think like a man. My personal fantasy of myself as the Uber Woman is to be a sexdoll and dress in bikini-like battle gear. Of course, at my age, that is not a possibility. I'd look ridiculous. But, it's a fantasy ... and I can enjoy it just like men enjoy Uber Men heroes.

Wonder Woman is not my favorite superheroine by any means, but I certainly enjoy other "hypersexualized" female characters. I am neither offended nor intimidated by them. I would not consider myself any kind of "gynephile" either. It's not that I am attracted to that kind of woman. I'm straight as an arrow. No, I want to be that kind of woman, just like guys want to be their favorite superhero. I have the same sense of myself as men have of themselves. I don't find sexiness demeaning in any way, whether it is in male or female form.



May I remind you of your own words: "... she might as well have been a boy, since her characterization isn't specifically spun around feminine stereotypes." You are the one who claimed she may as well have been male.

I don't understand why some women are so frightened of the differences between men and women, and why shouldn't we use our inherent feminine virtues to our advantage when dealing with men? Are women hoping that if they don't use their powers over men that men will somehow return the favor? What is the fear that keeps women hiding one of the greatest powers they possess?

I simply don't understand the push by feminists to "desexualize" everything.

Exactly. I have fantasies of being Captain America(The real Captain before Marvel and Disney made him an unpatriotic leftest), Cap is supposed to represent liberty after all. Anyway, all that does is make me want to get stronger. I WOULD say that characters such as Captain America(again the true Cap) are "sexualized" and that was true; however sadly what young women find sexy now a days are men who are more feminine than they are. See, there is a whole movement started that demeans men who are strong and fit and thus younger girls go for men who are "non-threatening" whom they can manipulate. It's not every women in that age group of course, just the "feminists".

 

[Ylva]

May I remind you of your own words: "... she might as well have been a boy, since her characterization isn't specifically spun around feminine stereotypes." You are the one who claimed she may as well have been male.

You didn't have to. If someone took her character sheet and rewrote her as male, they wouldn't have to switch any gender stereotypes for any other. Just the design and pronouns. I didn't say she should have been a boy.

 

[Cali Cat]

Exactly. I have fantasies of being Captain America(The real Captain before Marvel and Disney made him an unpatriotic leftest), Cap is supposed to represent liberty after all. Anyway, all that does is make me want to get stronger. I WOULD say that characters such as Captain America(again the true Cap) are "sexualized" and that was true; however sadly what young women find sexy now a days are men who are more feminine than they are. See, there is a whole movement started that demeans men who are strong and fit and thus younger girls go for men who are "non-threatening" whom they can manipulate. It's not every women in that age group of course, just the "feminists".

Yes! Superheroes in general are designed to make people aspire to greatness, or one would think anyway.

I've always had a specific body type that I like in a man, and it's not a muscled hero type either, but I don't go for effeminate men at all. Men should be men, and women should be women. I'm not understanding why feminists want to take all the mystery and sexual tension out of the male/female dynamic. Can you imagine how boring that would be???

 

[Cali Cat]

Okay, Minx ... what's your take on this...

Deep down, women really do want to be the Uber Woman, but they are in denial. They find ways to assassinate her value because they've been brainwashed by both the Patriarchal society and feminism.

Patriarchal society tells women that they must hide their sexuality or else they are sluts.The flip side is that men are aroused by sluts, but don't respect them. This is hypocritical for sure ...

However, the you have ...

Feminists telling women they are being a traitor to other women if they in any way desire to fulfill the fantasies of men. Feminism says it is sexist and objectifying behavior by men that shouldn't be indulged by women. Basically, it's a hypocritical stance, because feminists will immediately turn around and defend women who dress provocatively, but the key here is that the woman is supposed to be dressing for her own enjoyment, not the enjoyment of men.

Now, if you can follow that line of thinking at all, I'm sure you can see where the mixed messages on both sides have led women to believe it's wrong to even want to be an Uber Woman. Men will think she's a slut and women will see her as a traitor. Women can't get past this first hurdle to see the characters as more than a sexualized being. The intelligence and skill of the Uber Woman is negated by her sexuality in the feminist world view. Feminists are actually as bad as the Patriarchal society in making women feel uncomfortable with the totality of their being.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well enough. It's just off the top of my head, but I hope you get the gist of it ...

How can women be expected to embrace a female character that she has been told by society in general she should not emulate? It's the sexuality they have a problem with, and it's all because nobody wants a guy to get a hard-on ... lol

How ridiculous is that???

 

[clg114]

I agree. My friends' daughter (23-year-old Aspie) has a conceal carry permit and she packs a Ruger LCR loaded with .38 special +P critical defense rounds. She makes up in accuracy for what she lacks in size and strength.

I was in the store one day picking up a box of rounds when the woman in front of me turned and said, "I don't believe in guns." I looked her in the eye and calmly said, "Yeah, but no one ever raped a .38." Frankly, I believe every woman in this day and age should be armed with something be it a pepper gun or a Smith and Wesson 500.

I am not the only carry permit holder in the house, my wife has one too. She carries a Bersa Thunder 380 acp (9mm short) with peril pink grips. She does not go to the range as often as I do, but she goes enough to know how to shoot her gun. She is a good shot too.

 

[Shiznown]

This needed to be posted
[youtube]

 

[Crossbreed]

It would have meant aspiring to be a sexual object, whether for men or women.

Purpose is the most important trait for myself, my characters and those that I read or view (in media), but being attractive, on top of that, doesn't hurt. As it is, I consider most women to be attractive,* and many men, too.** The visual impact of one's inherent sexuality is incidental, and need not be condemned.

*Yes, my preferences are subjective, but those outside my tastes will certainly appeal to others.
**As artistic and/or aspired-to ideals, not romantically...

 

[Ylva]

The visual impact of one's inherent sexuality is incidental, and need not be condemned.

And, for the last time, I won't aspire to it. Where does "not aspire" become "condemn"?

 

[Crossbreed]

Where does "not aspire" become "condemn"?

"Condemn" wasn't the exact word that I was looking for, but thinking in pictures, I couldn't think of the better word. Maybe "vilify...?"

 

[Tom]

To the OP,

I caught the part about you thinking feminists don't like women super heroes in comics. I guess thats their choice.

But the I got lost pretty quickly in the stuff about men and tuber men. Who or I mean what are Tuber men? (I don't read comics).

But I did catch one statement. Something about 'men being afraid of attractive strong women'. I have to say I think that a questionable generalization. I can only speak for myself, but that is exactly one of the strongest attractions for me. I worked with and for many such women. I wasn't afraid of them. I feel I married one. But you have to remember that life is a scaled down version of that depicted in comics and there are really no 'heros' much less 'superheros'. Or at least such must be quite rare. There's just average people who suppress their fears sometimes and do heroic things. That is not to take anything away from them. Actually the opposite.

 

[watersprite]

Tom Ha! you've done it. My son and I now have an ongoing joke about Tuber men and it has absolutely nothing to do with Nietzsche.

 

[Tom]

Thanks, Tom, as I thought perhaps my NVLD was preventing me from grasping the points of the essay. I'm sure it is an interesting article, but I found I could not grasp what the OP was trying to get at. My understanding of attractive strong women is:

There have been such in history (though the outfits were basically identical to the men's usually. What came to my mind were some like this:

Cpl Jennifer Parcell (USA), Member of Marine Lioness group, KIA Iraq, 2007

Capt Nichola Goddard (Canada), KIA Afganistan 2006, leading company sized unit.

Capt Kimberly Hampton (USA), KIA Iraq 2004, shot down commanding Delta Troop near Fallujah.

 

[Crossbreed]

Not to play down your military heroines, but there is a certain amount of heroism when a woman remains positive and resourceful when life deals her a bad hand, such as bad finances or a disability.

 

[watersprite]

There have been such in history (though the outfits were basically identical to the men's usually. What came to my mind were some like this:

Cpl Jennifer Parcell (USA), Member of Marine Lioness group, KIA Iraq, 2007

Capt Nichola Goddard (Canada), KIA Afganistan 2006, leading company sized unit.

Capt Kimberly Hampton (USA), KIA Iraq 2004, shot down commanding Delta Troop near Fallujah.

Tom
Sigh.

I ate dinner tonight, on the back porch with my son. This thread was open on my ipad. I thank you for reminding me of these heroes/heroines.

 

[Tom]

Not to play down your military heroines, but there is a certain amount of heroism when a woman remains positive and resourceful when life deals her a bad hand, such as bad finances or a disability.

Absolutely. I just gave examples of literal female warriors in line with the thread subject. Types of heroism can occur most anywhere in many situations. Some others are sticking to your choices/beliefs in the face of opposition, sticking by a disabled person, the list is endless.

 

[Tom]

YW. There's plenty of live female warriors, but those that died seem especially worth remembering.