Going back to our roots, Aspie/Autie Poll time

[ImAnAspie]

My Mum was pregnant with me (3 weeks before I was born) when my father died of synovial sarcoma.
My grandfather had Asperger's.

I believe the traumatic experience of my Mother losing her husband in such a horrible, slow, agonizing way whilst you're carrying his child. I never got to meet my dad. He died 3 weeks before I was born. I have always believed such a traumatic event happening to my Mother whilst I was in her womb had some effect on my growing up!

My Grandfather was an Aspie. He's where I get it from as well. Genetic!
My Mum's Aspie as well

 

[GhostWriter]

Someone made me open the lid on my special interest box recently and it's a tad open still. So, whilst it is continuing to pique my interest I thought I'd have a poll.

"Really" I hear you ask, "what's that about then?"

Hopefully the selections are self explanatory, and the poll itself is simple. The basis is to see how we perceive the root of our Apergers to have come about.

I believe my Aspergers is genetic, that's just my opinion and doesn't make it right, and that it acts upon the psychological pathways. There is a choice in the poll for that too.

Anyway, I am interested in your views more than mine as I already know mine so it's not much fun.

Poll itself is basic, meant to wet your appetite, so feel free to add your views of yourself (not Aspergers as a whole) and why you feel the way you do.

I think it's a combination of genetics & upbringing. Some cultures &/ or religions emphasize obedience, subservience, Guilt, etc ; Other cultures emphasize teamwork, family, socializing, 'fitting in', self confidence,
while others don't. Take Athens vs Sparta...This attitude is passed down generation to generation & eventually becomes engrained...
The same with Patterns of Thought, expression, processing input, tolerance, etc. We Adapt to these Patterns to Survive. And they are very hard to break! But there is no reason why one should be more acceptable/ better than another....
Think Mr Spock on Star Trek..

 

[On the Inside]

In thinking about in utero, postpartum and early childhood experience, there could be a causal condition. I was the last child in a family of 6 kids, my mom was 42 when she had me, and my dad was a hot tempered, abusive man.

Where there stresses in my and my older sisters early years that might have caused a developmental change resulting in Aspergers, or Aspergers-like traits? I can believe that, but there are also traits in my mom, her two brothers, maybe her dad. Combine that with a family culture of isolation, hiding truth, pretending nothing's wrong, deep denial.

For me, the answer lies in genetic/hereditary causes, along with conditions/environmental/nurturing factors.

That's the most complicated explanation, so to me of course, that must be it.

 

[On the Inside]

I like to do "dry hunts" and catch and release fishing. Meaning, I like to track prey, study their behavior, notice their migration patterns, and if I have the time, lay in wait and watch. I've done some live trapping, but only when I am present and able to release them straight away. Sometimes I'll take a photograph. I like to observe what it is that they are after in their life.

It's about being aware in an environment, opening up to nature, being receptive to the ways of our sibling creatures. If needed, I could hunt for food, but feel no need for it, I'm not going hungry. I've known many people who lived at least partially off the land, I grew up that way and I have respect for most people who engage in that, especially when they are able to articulate their reasons.

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="On the Inside, For me, the answer lies in genetic/hereditary causes, along with conditions/environmental/nurturing factors.That's the most complicated explanation, so to me of course, that must be it.[/QUOTE]

Hi OntheInside You are right of course one can not rule out contributing environmental stuff entirely. I was a blue blood, (blood war), premy baby and my mother likely had postpartum as she talked about pushing me away too much as a baby. But there are enough trogladites wandering through the family tree to keep genetics in play. Brain chemistry is complex tho, who knows the true impact of stress cortasols floating in the blood would have. So think happy thoughts baby mommas out there...

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="On the Inside, I like to do "dry hunts" and catch and release fishing. Meaning, I like to track prey, study their behavior, notice their migration patterns, [/QUOTE]

Hi On the Inside, yes I enjoy just tracking and watching things, there is a certain oneness you feel if you stop and just listen to the wind ruffling the leaves, birds chirping and little bugs and rattling and scratching about, it is good for the soul. I really should remember to do it more.

 

[Harrison]

It's a bit of a mystery as to why I have AS, and as I'm the only person in my family diagnosed with it, I'm a bit of a wildcard. But the psychiatrist who diagnosed me said it was likely to have been caused by trauma during my mother's pregnancy, as she was ill with cancer while pregnant with me.

I recall the psychologist who diagnosed me expressing an interest in the fact that I was in a frank breech position when they were trying to birth me (which lead to a caesarean section). I have no idea if there's any actual evidence as to whether this sort of thing can be a contributing factor; but, like you, I am the only one in my family diagnosed with AS and I don't see many AS tendencies in the rest of my family, so, who knows?

Further up the thread was a science quote which showed that there was no prior genetic case necessary, that ASD could form the necessary genetic coding in that individual only. As the coding would have been established before birth it would be interesting if this was the case and you both 'self-created' the condition.

 

[Progster]

Further up the thread was a science quote which showed that there was no prior genetic case necessary, that ASD could form the necessary genetic coding in that individual only. As the coding would have been established before birth it would be interesting if this was the case and you both 'self-created' the condition.

It could have been passed on through genes, skipping two or three generations and appearing in me - no one in my immediate family has ASD, but one or two family members on my father's side have traits. Anyway, nothing immediately obvious. My understanding is that one can have ASD due to a difficult birth or due to stress in the womb, but how one would 'self-create' the condition? I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

[Harrison]

It could have been passed on through genes, skipping two or three generations and appearing in me - no one in my immediate family has ASD, but one or two family members on my father's side have traits. Anyway, nothing immediately obvious. My understanding is that one can have ASD due to a difficult birth or due to stress in the womb, but how one would 'self-create' the condition? I'm not sure what you mean here.

Geneticists have discovered that the genes associated with ASD do not have to be inherited. In fact, they say, those patterns held by the parents are not passed on to the child. In some cases this means a child will spaontaneously remodel their own genes to bring about an ASD at conception.

 

[Maelstrom]

Geneticists have discovered that the genes associated with ASD do not have to be inherited. In fact, they say, those patterns held by the parents are not passed on to the child. In some cases this means a child will spaontaneously remodel their own genes to bring about an ASD at conception.

Hmm...How far you going with the gene mobility... they're not going to hop up and start doing the Irish jig are they? sorry I couldn't resist Bad Mael

 

[Harrison]

Hmm...How far you going with the gene mobility... they're not going to hop up and start doing the Irish jig are they? sorry I couldn't resist Bad Mael

Well it happened when they messed about with these guys genes

 

[Maelstrom]

Well it happened when they messed about with these guys genes

Ah! you win, I stand corrected.. that is hilarious... don't give Collen Farrel or whatever his name is your address, unless you like scrambled eggs with dirt in them.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

It could have been passed on through genes, skipping two or three generations and appearing in me - no one in my immediate family has ASD, but one or two family members on my father's side have traits. Anyway, nothing immediately obvious. My understanding is that one can have ASD due to a difficult birth or due to stress in the womb, but how one would 'self-create' the condition? I'm not sure what you mean here.

Underweight birth and premature birth are both strongly correlated with AS. I suspect the wiring of the brain needed to process what goes for 'normal' gets swamped if a premature birth means sensory overload from the very beginning--I suspect the brain stops doing social coding to manage all the external inputs. I'm speculating, I have no proof.

 

[Harrison]

I'm speculating, I have no proof.

Everything put forward on this thread is speculation, so no worries, just good to have your input.

 

[Maelstrom]

Everything put forward on this thread is speculation, so no worries, just good to have your input.

I have decided that Harrison54 has already discovered the perfect treatment for AS, humor. Aaah! you think I'm joking but actually I'm not. At the end of the day we're all going to be taking a ride as grill decorations on the Mac Truck of life, on all this stupid stuff, weather we like it or not. So we may as well relax laugh off the bad stuff as much as we can, and enjoy the wind in our hair, we'll get there when we get there. And humor seems to be the single biggest attractor in friendship and love. So there you go, load the cooler with Georgia peaches and root beer, and see if you can tease a cute girl into going fishing with you.

 

[Spiller]

I have decided that Harrison54 has already discovered the perfect treatment for AS, humor. Aaah! you think I'm joking but actually I'm not. At the end of the day we're all going to be taking a ride as grill decorations on the Mac Truck of life, on all this stupid stuff, weather we like it or not. So we may as well relax laugh off the bad stuff as much as we can, and enjoy the wind in our hair, we'll get there when we get there. And humor seems to be the single biggest attractor in friendship and love. So there you go, load the cooler with Georgia peaches and root beer, and see if you can tease a cute girl into going fishing with you.

Ahh, The Ultimate Answer to The Question at last, much more satisfying than "42".. er.. can we expect destruction by the Vogons at any moment?

 

[fredvizsla]

I answered Biological - Genetic and None of the above. Why? Because biology is life: I'm alive. DNA codes life: I'm alive. It's not as if ASD diagnosis are "real" by the way: the entire syndrome / spectrum is a junk pile of behaviors psychologists don't know what to do with.

Diagnosed Asperger: my personal opinion is that I'm a visual thinker, which means that my perception of reality is impossible for social typicals to understand. I'm intelligent and female, so I'm a social outcast. I won the lottery!

 

[Harrison]

An article that may interest you folks, in full here with a link to the source material.

Study reveals gene expression changes with meditation
Dec. 4, 2013

by Jill Sakai

With evidence growing that meditation can have beneficial health effects, scientists have sought to understand how these practices physically affect the body.

A new study by researchers in Wisconsin, Spain, and France reports the first evidence of specific molecular changes in the body following a period of mindfulness meditation.

The study investigated the effects of a day of intensive mindfulness practice in a group of experienced meditators, compared to a group of untrained control subjects who engaged in quiet non-meditative activities. After eight hours of mindfulness practice, the meditators showed a range of genetic and molecular differences, including altered levels of gene-regulating machinery and reduced levels of pro-inflammatory genes, which in turn correlated with faster physical recovery from a stressful situation.

Richard J. Davidson

"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first paper that shows rapid alterations in gene expression within subjects associated with mindfulness meditation practice," says study author Richard J. Davidson, founder of the Center for Investigating Healthy Minds and the William James and Vilas Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

"Most interestingly, the changes were observed in genes that are the current targets of anti-inflammatory and analgesic drugs," says Perla Kaliman, first author of the article and a researcher at the Institute of Biomedical Research of Barcelona, Spain (IIBB-CSIC-IDIBAPS), where the molecular analyses were conducted.

The study was published in the journal Psychoneuroendocrinology.

Mindfulness-based trainings have shown beneficial effects on inflammatory disorders in prior clinical studies and are endorsed by the American Heart Association as a preventative intervention. The new results provide a possible biological mechanism for therapeutic effects.

The results show a down-regulation of genes that have been implicated in inflammation. The affected genes include the pro-inflammatory genes RIPK2 and COX2 as well as several histone deacetylase (HDAC) genes, which regulate the activity of other genes epigenetically by removing a type of chemical tag. What's more, the extent to which some of those genes were downregulated was associated with faster cortisol recovery to a social stress test involving an impromptu speech and tasks requiring mental calculations performed in front of an audience and video camera.

“To the best of our knowledge, this is the first paper that shows rapid alterations in gene expression within subjects associated with mindfulness meditation practice.”

Richard J. Davidson

Perhaps surprisingly, the researchers say, there was no difference in the tested genes between the two groups of people at the start of the study. The observed effects were seen only in the meditators following mindfulness practice. In addition, several other DNA-modifying genes showed no differences between groups, suggesting that the mindfulness practice specifically affected certain regulatory pathways.

However, it is important to note that the study was not designed to distinguish any effects of long-term meditation training from those of a single day of practice. Instead, the key result is that meditators experienced genetic changes following mindfulness practice that were not seen in the non-meditating group after other quiet activities — an outcome providing proof of principle that mindfulness practice can lead to epigenetic alterations of the genome.

Previous studies in rodents and in people have shown dynamic epigenetic responses to physical stimuli such as stress, diet, or exercise within just a few hours.

"Our genes are quite dynamic in their expression and these results suggest that the calmness of our mind can actually have a potential influence on their expression," Davidson says.

"The regulation of HDACs and inflammatory pathways may represent some of the mechanisms underlying the therapeutic potential of mindfulness-based interventions," Kaliman says. "Our findings set the foundation for future studies to further assess meditation strategies for the treatment of chronic inflammatory conditions."

Study funding came from National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (grant number P01-AT004952) and grants from the Fetzer Institute, the John Templeton Foundation, and an anonymous donor to Davidson. The study was conducted at the Center for Investigating Healthy Minds at the UW-Madison Waisman Center.

SOURCE :
Study reveals gene expression changes with meditation

 

[Progster]

Geneticists have discovered that the genes associated with ASD do not have to be inherited. In fact, they say, those patterns held by the parents are not passed on to the child. In some cases this means a child will spaontaneously remodel their own genes to bring about an ASD at conception.

Underweight birth and premature birth are both strongly correlated with AS. I suspect the wiring of the brain needed to process what goes for 'normal' gets swamped if a premature birth means sensory overload from the very beginning--I suspect the brain stops doing social coding to manage all the external inputs. I'm speculating, I have no proof.

Interesting theory, including the article posted above - I always thought that genes were fixed and predetermined, I had no idea that they could spontaneously change like that. It certainly would be a plausible explanation as to why a person could develop ASD or any other genetic disorder without there being a previous history, though I rather think that in my case it's more likely that the stress of my mum's cancer treatment interupted my natural brain development and caused AS. The idea that the brain is overloaded after a premature birth also seems plausible - but there again, only a certain percentage of premature births produce such a result. Anyway, as Harrison points out, all this is speculation.

As an interesting sidenote on generating genetic material, I know that under certain circumstances, some invertebrates and even female snakes and other reptiles can reproduce without the genetic imput from the male by producing genetic material to make up for the missing half (parthenogenesis).

 

[fredvizsla]

My reference to Mind is the same as Jung's, not the biological brain but the perception of conscious self awareness. This mind is not regarded as biological by mainstream science, who, to date, cannot agree upon a definition or location for it although it patently exists.

My spiritual concept is not 'mind' but spirit, which I have chosen to leave out of the poll.

I came up with my own definition of mind, which extends the concept of mind and culture to all life forms.

Mind is the sum of an individual's or group's reactions to the environment.

Culture is the sum of an individual's or group's interactions with the environment.

A virus both reacts to and interacts with the environment, so even the most basic forms of life exhibit mind and culture. I think it's time that we not only accept that we share the planet with all life, but that we have a concrete demonstration that this is true. Also it clears up confusion: an individual may have its own mind / culture and at the same time participate in a group's mind/culture.

This also takes care of complexity and is additive: Where humans are concerned, ideas, language, art, etc. are mind / culture, whereas for the virus "culture" might be its reproductive cycle.