Grasping for straws!

[ebarwick]

Hello. I'm hoping someone can help me. My son is almost 20 and he has lost his way. He has Aspberger's, depression and ADD. He is a very sensitive and anxious young man who is afraid of the outside world and of growing up. He has no confidence or self-esteem and has never had more than an acquaintance. He lost his dad 8 years ago and seems very uncomfortable around men. Since he graduated in 2022 he has become more and more isolated. I have been doing everything I can to get him out in the world but he resists and would spend 24/7 in his room if he could. He only comes out if he needs something and to talk about how miserable he is. And yes, screens are an issue but it is the only place he feels like he belongs and the only time he is happy chatting with others. He is not violent or interested in violence, he just doesn't believe he has a place in this world. I have become an enabler even though I desperately tried not to. I've done everything I can think of, but I know he will never have a life if I don't get him out of this house and away from me. I know he needs more help than I can give but I don't know where to look and I'm terrified of making matters worse. But I will lose him if I don't do something decisive. He's been to therapy all his life and I have been in touch with a number of organizations but it never works out. I need an advocate who can tell me what to do. I desperately want my son to have a life but I am all that he has and I'm just not cutting it! Any ideas PLEASE?

 

[Rodafina]

@ebarwick
Hello and welcome.

Do you think your son might want to join the forum and talk to people here?

 

[VictorR]

Hello.

I'll make a book suggestion if you haven't read it already:

https://www.autismforums.com/resources/the-loving-push.213/

You mention that he seems to find comfort in his online life. You may wish to try to find out what that is as that may be helpful in identifying potential approaches - does the internet permit him perhaps to be a version of himself that he's not comfortable expressing "in real life"? Or does he find it easier to express himself in writing? Something else? Etc.

 

[kriss72]

Hi ebarwick, welcome here - I understand some of your feelings, I have a daughter that has also struggled with depression for many years, she spends most of her time glued to the computer. I really understand the part with being scared of making it worse, there has been times when I was asked by the doctors to remove all knifes from our kitchen, that kind of stuff. I have not been able to really reach her, she have had to find the motivation inside herself.

There have been times where I have told her some facts - like the doctor will come here if you don't want to go to the doctor, it was the truth and it motivated her to get out of the bed - but also, telling her about school offerings, like telling her about this school where she could just go for a few hours a week. Then after some time she slowly opened and said, ok maybe we can go see the school. My daughter has autistic traits, but not enough to be diagnosed.

Currently its been months since she has been with friends. I don't know if any of this helps you, but I really feel for the struggle you are going through.

 

[tree]

 

[Au Naturel]

Find a therapist who specializes in autism. (I've become convinced one should avoid ABA.) Be his friend and support, but it is not something you can fix. Maybe find a therapist for you to help you cope. He is what he is, and any change in him will be glacial. Forcing him out into a social life he doesn't want or understand is not a fix.

 

[Outdated]

Try and get him in to a Trade environment if you can. A physical trade such es electrician, fitter and turner, carpenter, welder/fabricator, mechanic, etc.

I believe it was one of the true saviours of my life, stumbling in to a trade as a 16 year old. I was an Offset Printer. There's a different mentality in trade environments, less social hierarchy. All the best tradies are a little bit weird and no one cares, quality and efficiency of work are all that matters.

The social hierarchy issue was something I only discovered as my trade died out in the late 90s, I didn't realise up until then what a protected environment I had lived in and I failed to adapt to the rest of the world.

 

[Suzanne]

What an amazing mum you are! Even if you are an enabler, which from your post, you can hardly help that.

I understand your son very much, because I am the same; accept my faith helps me to push myself out of my comfort zone, otherwise, I would NEVER venture out of doors.

I am currently waiting on the verdict to be registered as disabled. Could and would you both ie your son and you, be willing to do go that path? Because that would mean outside help is more readily available.

I was 9 or 10, when I tried to run away from "home", due to the evilness, but only got so far, stopped and thought: this world is too big for me and from that moment, agoraphobia set in.

In your situation, to force yourself to come out of his comfort zone, could tip him over the edge. So, what about activities within his safe environment that you both can share? Would he be willing to go outside with you? Ie does he need a companion to be a support outside his home?

I function normally at home and cannot at all function outside on my own.

Also, there is a type of female who I find frightening and that type is ones who are made up and look as arrogant as anything.

 

[Nitro]

 

[Neri]

My youngest son was behaving very much like that. He ended up having a threatening-his-life crisis and I insisted we go through the emergency dep for mental health intervention. I was also dealing with my mother in crisis, at the same time. This was toward the end of 2022. I had to put my foot down and he moved into youth housing, with services supporting him, as well as me still being very much on call and active as his go-to person and parent. He is doing much better living on his own, but with a good and close relationship with me, intact.
He tried working but couldn't manage it. Now he is making music and has decided to try to make a career out of his creative arts endeavors. He still games a lot. He still has terrible sleeping habits. But he stopped being suicidal and self harming and he isn't really depressed anymore. He is still highly anxious though and has meltdowns when we go to town and his routines are interrupted.
He got put on anti depressants and his overall moods and general wellbeing is much improved.
He is planning to move to a big city to pursue his music and other creative arts endeavours and I will be going down to help him settle in. I also facilitated some support services to help him with the things he needs extra help with.

When they are stagnating and being "shut ins" it is so difficult! And you end up doing too much of the stuff that keeps them stuck, like I would take food in to him and he didn't do anything really, other than game and have meltdowns and be depressed and self harm, which, in turn, keeps them in a low self esteem vicious cycle.

I kept talking to him though. I kept being real with him and assuring him that I love him, but also that we needed help. I let him know I was out of my depth. It took a long time for us to get much help really. Years. Partly he wasn't really ready, and partly, we live in regional Australia and there wasn't much help until it got so bad that emergency help kicked in. Once he was properly "in the system" it got much easier to get the support we needed. Sometimes it has to get worse, before it can get better.

I hope some of my story is helpful to you. I do understand and feel for you! I have been through much more, with my older sons as well. Much worse and more long term, and they ended up in inpatients for major mental health crisis. But I supported them through it and they are doing well now. Never underestimate the power you have in loving him, but also, be proactive in trying to get help for you both. It is more than we can do alone. I am here, if you want to talk more.

 

[kriss72]

My youngest son was behaving very much like that. He ended up having a threatening-his-life crisis and I insisted we go through the emergency dep for mental health intervention. I was also dealing with my mother in crisis, at the same time.

Sorry to hear that Neri, it must have been a so very hard, I know about the feeling in a parent when the child don't want to be here anymore - and then you had to deal with your mothers crisis at the same time...

 

[Neri]

Sorry to hear that Neri, it must have been a so very hard, I know about the feeling in a parent when the child don't want to be here anymore - and then you had to deal with your mothers crisis at the same time...

Yes. A tough time. Thank you @kriss72. In a way, the mum stuff helped move us out of that stuck place. Of course, he felt abandoned because I had to help my Ma, but, I was back and forth between them and it was in the back, and between having to be there for my ma (who needed me in a different state) that we ended up in emergency because of how unwell he was. He is really well, now, by comparison. He was a highly anxious kid from the get go. And had suicidal ideation from the age of 7. But he is good now. Has found his way, it seems. The meds seemed to have helped. And he was seeing a therapist online. Not the best one, as they don't seem too clued in about ND, but still. We are hoping melbourne will provide more specific ND support. It is renowned for being very progressive with mental health and ND support and good youth services. Hopefully he will find a place near the city centre where there is a great youth music support service. I will be heading down to help him get settled. He is a really, incredible, brilliant young man, it's that old mental illness and high intelligence and neuroticism begets great creativity and depth kind of scenario. I am incredibly proud of how he's progressed this past year.

 

[Hypnalis]

@ebarwick

You need professional help too.

Not a "talk therapist" though. You don't need to feel good about your current self, nor bad about your current state.
You need a realistic plan, and a way to execute it. You're not there at the moment.

I know someone in the situation you describe. He's been allowed to "live online". He won't do things he could do, because he's comfortable as he is. Older than your son, very intelligent. Age-wise he's adult. Effective maturity level is early/mid-teens because he's "only" online. He gets along ok with adults.
He'll never change without some external impulse. It will probably be his parents becoming incapable of caring for themselves.

In the meantime, trade screen time for a decent sleep and nutrition schedule.
To be explicit - "trade screen time" means take his network and device access away. This isn't going to be easy, so set up for it without signaling anything whatsoever about what you're doing. You probably need technical guidance.

Don't do it "cold-turkey". It takes a while to reset a sleep cycle. Concentrate on sleep - food is much easier.
But cut way back on sugars and starches. They don't cause uneven sleep cycles, but they facilitate them.

 

[AndyFBlues]

Hi @ebarwick Welcome to the forum!

I agree, it seems like you and your son need a professional to help find the best path forward. This will be someone who can give an honest assessment as to the best goal that your son can achieve and come up with a plan to get there. Everyone is different and will have different levels of function that they can get to. The most important thing if for you and your son is to have the best quality of life possible.

 

[Knower of nothing]

I have been the son in this situation. I have had the extreme isolation and genuine suicide consideration. All that worked for me is for the family to relax, provide space and understanding, and wait. Pushing buttons has a chance for them to internally cut you off as someone they can trust. I had written off my entire family at one point and begun keeping furniture in front of the door. You may ask them things, and invite them for activities. But don't pry and don't push.
It is very risky to do aggressive things like removing his devices without agreement, ESPECIALLY if they are self bought. This is something my mother tried as well. This is theft and posits you as an antagonist in his life. If you are all that he has, then becoming a spear that pushes him out into the world will mean that he has no one. He'd now need to defend himself not just from the world and himself but also from you.
This is a cold read based on myself obviously, but he's also likely been bullied. That can cause a lot of self-hate, a fear of others and a generally hopeless outlook on the future. As the perception is that it will simply start happening again if you go out into the world. There is no easy way to get this confidence back. For me it took several years of no negative social experiences, space from family and slowly but surely exploring friendship and connection safely online. You have to find the smallest possible step, and if he's fresh out of a horrid school life, this could easily mean to just wait and let him have some recovery time. Feel free to discuss external assistance options, just be mindful that if this becomes all you talk about your presence is a signal of needing to think about the outside world and the future and thus a point of anxiety. I still get a jolt of anxiety simply hearing someone walk up the stairs or ring the door. It's been a decade since my worst period, I still can't go outside alone with any reasonable frequency and my future is as a result still uncertain. But I'm happy.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Knower of nothing
The correct approach depends on how much it costs to leave the hikikomori alone to indulge themselves.

If they support themselves, cook and clean etc they can be "choosy beggars" in other respects.
If their carers' lives are destroyed as a side effect of their actions, the "rules" of reasonable behavior towards them change.

@ebarwick
I didn't state, but should have on reflection:

I don't mean direct blackmail. I meant "no access while your son should be sleeping". This is why it shouldn't be done in one big step - that would be disproportional to the objective, and wouldn't motivate it directly.

As for the need to go in hard - it's because I'm assuming that otherwise it's a waste of time. To me, it seems unlikely he'll change his behavior just because you asked/told him to. And it's not easy to block access to devices in the 2020s.
I'd buy a phone without a screen or internet access, and disable get all the others. Or be able to - perhaps it can be negotiated. Remember smartphones with data are cheap, and it's very easy to borrow an old one.

As to why that approach: fixing sleep and meal patterns is a generally good thing. There's sure to be useful information on it online. And you're not here asking for help to let him keep doing what he wants.
You need some means other than a polite request to require him to change his behavior.
This way has an obvious upside, as penalties go it's quite modest, and has no significant downside (as opposed to what I seemed to be suggesting earlier - it's a good thing "Knower of nothing" pointed that out).

Anyway back to the point: the "battle of wills" aspect is part of the point, not an unfortunate side-effect.

Regardless of how this ends, he needs to learn to compromise with you. If you can do it without applying some leverage that would be better of course. But if you can't talk him into it, the next step is choosing what kind of leverage to apply.

The next level of practical intervention is much more likely to actually cause harm to something other than their ego. Money? Food? Cleaning? Actually eject him? You don't have a lot of easy options.
In this respect I think "Knower of nothing" is 100% correct. It's important to keep everything in proportion to the objective.

a spear that pushes him out into the world will mean that he has no one

@Knower of nothing
I think you went too far past my actual suggestion in that section of your post.

Perhaps it's just hyperbole, but if not, it's a blackmail technique.
Accepting that kind of "blackmail" is what creates these problems.

It's ok in babies. They "train" their parents to take care of them by finding the most effective cry to wake their mother.

And it's still there up to the end of the "tantrum" period (IIRC it should be fading by about 4, when children start to learn emotional regulation). If that behavior never ends, all outcomes are worse than if it had ended naturally.

 

[tree]

What does llRC mean?

 

[Hypnalis]

If I Remember Correctly.
Indicates a possibility of error in the details, and that the main point is probably correct.
But in this case it's just about the timing. Children who never learn emotional regulation turn into adults with the same problem.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/IIRC
It might be aging out of online slang, but it's been in use a long time.

 

[Neri]

I have been the son in this situation. I have had the extreme isolation and genuine suicide consideration. All that worked for me is for the family to relax, provide space and understanding, and wait. Pushing buttons has a chance for them to internally cut you off as someone they can trust. I had written off my entire family at one point and begun keeping furniture in front of the door. You may ask them things, and invite them for activities. But don't pry and don't push.
It is very risky to do aggressive things like removing his devices without agreement, ESPECIALLY if they are self bought. This is something my mother tried as well. This is theft and posits you as an antagonist in his life. If you are all that he has, then becoming a spear that pushes him out into the world will mean that he has no one. He'd now need to defend himself not just from the world and himself but also from you.
This is a cold read based on myself obviously, but he's also likely been bullied. That can cause a lot of self-hate, a fear of others and a generally hopeless outlook on the future. As the perception is that it will simply start happening again if you go out into the world. There is no easy way to get this confidence back. For me it took several years of no negative social experiences, space from family and slowly but surely exploring friendship and connection safely online. You have to find the smallest possible step, and if he's fresh out of a horrid school life, this could easily mean to just wait and let him have some recovery time. Feel free to discuss external assistance options, just be mindful that if this becomes all you talk about your presence is a signal of needing to think about the outside world and the future and thus a point of anxiety. I still get a jolt of anxiety simply hearing someone walk up the stairs or ring the door. It's been a decade since my worst period, I still can't go outside alone with any reasonable frequency and my future is as a result still uncertain. But I'm happy.

I agree. Be respectful, gentle and kind. It has worked better for me than any kind of power play, with my sons.

 

[ebarwick]

@ebarwick
Hello and welcome.

Do you think your son might want to join the forum and talk to people here?

I wish. He says he will to everything but never follows through. If he isn't interested in something he won't participate.