Grasping for straws!

[ebarwick]

Hello.

I'll make a book suggestion if you haven't read it already:

https://www.autismforums.com/resources/the-loving-push.213/

You mention that he seems to find comfort in his online life. You may wish to try to find out what that is as that may be helpful in identifying potential approaches - does the internet permit him perhaps to be a version of himself that he's not comfortable expressing "in real life"? Or does he find it easier to express himself in writing? Something else? Etc.

Thank you very much! I will get that book.

 

[ebarwick]

Hi ebarwick, welcome here - I understand some of your feelings, I have a daughter that has also struggled with depression for many years, she spends most of her time glued to the computer. I really understand the part with being scared of making it worse, there has been times when I was asked by the doctors to remove all knifes from our kitchen, that kind of stuff. I have not been able to really reach her, she have had to find the motivation inside herself.

There have been times where I have told her some facts - like the doctor will come here if you don't want to go to the doctor, it was the truth and it motivated her to get out of the bed - but also, telling her about school offerings, like telling her about this school where she could just go for a few hours a week. Then after some time she slowly opened and said, ok maybe we can go see the school. My daughter has autistic traits, but not enough to be diagnosed.

Currently its been months since she has been with friends. I don't know if any of this helps you, but I really feel for the struggle you are going through.

WOW. So impressed with you! You are an incredibly strong and patient Mom. It sounds like you have both been through a lot and I SO appreciate you sharing your story. Thank you for your kindness and empathy. You bring tears to my eyes! I hope you will stay in touch so I can learn from your successes and failures. I wish there was something I could for you. Maybe our kids should be in touch. It sounds like they have a lot in common. If you would like to try it, let me know. God bless!

 

[ebarwick]

Hello.

I'll make a book suggestion if you haven't read it already:

https://www.autismforums.com/resources/the-loving-push.213/

You mention that he seems to find comfort in his online life. You may wish to try to find out what that is as that may be helpful in identifying potential approaches - does the internet permit him perhaps to be a version of himself that he's not comfortable expressing "in real life"? Or does he find it easier to express himself in writing? Something else? Etc.

He does feel more comfortable online mostly, I think, because he can be unseen. He jokes and laughs with his friends online like I have not seen him do in person. It's always about gaming though. (Not violent games, thank Heaven!) That is where he is happy. I've tried to use that to get him out of the house. For example, I found a Dungeons and Dragons therapy group which may be working out and I bought him a drone for Christmas but he has shown no interest in it. For years I have been trying to find a crossover from games to life for him but have not been successful. He has shown some interest in "voice acting" but he's not interested in any of my suggestions of coaching or classes. I just don't know what else to do.

 

[Knower of nothing]

The correct approach depends on how much it costs to leave the hikikomori alone to indulge themselves.

If they support themselves, cook and clean etc they can be "choosy beggars" in other respects.
If their carers' lives are destroyed as a side effect of their actions, the "rules" of reasonable behavior towards them change.

They're a person, not a tenant. There's nothing reasonable to calculate. You do what you can if you want based on how much you prioritize.

Accepting that kind of "blackmail" is what creates these problems.

No, the problem exists first, built up way before the symptoms become a behavior, the "blackmail" is a survival strategy response to it. Not everyone would just indulge themselves when given an enabler and then never do anything ever again. People aren't like that. It makes you depressed to have to live like that. It is necessity. It is the lack of better options. I don't believe we're dealing with a core of addiction here but that isolation is the last afforded comfort. The actual core I would think is the mentioned eradicated confidence.

@ebarwick
As for potential insight on sleep rituals, there is an innate attraction to being up very late. It further increases your detachment from the real world as there is generally little of note happening at home and you likely never have any kind of appointment. That is a minor sense of control you can gain over your life, though it is a destructive kind. There can also be a distaste for sleeping because it brings tomorrow. It's irrational, but ticking over the days willingly can sound painful. A third potential cause is executive dysfunction, in this case you should have some record of sleeping difficulty from childhood as well. These can all be overlapping.

Also this:

He says he will to everything but never follows through. If he isn't interested in something he won't participate.

Is familiar to me as well. This is potentially that "writing off" I mentioned. Choosing the shortest conflict-avoiding answer to end the conversation and then put it out of your mind the second the person leaves because you have no faith in the value of their suggestions anymore. In my case, as I didn't graduate, this was built up after being sent to a bunch of different professionals and forms of special schooling over the course of 3 years without anything positive coming out of it. For me this was only mended once I was doing better inside, but I don't know much about this relationship phenomenon.

There is no easy solution. Especially nothing practical. Because this is a problem of mindset in the end. But I would prioritize talking with him, not at him. Maybe minimize room intrusions (though keep an eye on the state of it as that can sort of reflect how things are going) and have the talks when he comes out instead. Maybe going for a walk somewhere quiet, if at all possible. I just believe that the more it all feels like he's some problem to solve, the more that confidence is taking hits. I can't promise improvement whatsoever, but I do consider it a good sign that he has made friends online as that ended up being key in my own path to regaining confidence. A hobby or some other source of positive reinforcement would be next if so. They're still quite young. Have faith, try to relax. Don't give up on them. And take care of yourself.

 

[Hypnalis]

They're a person, not a tenant.

They do not exist in isolation within the household. Even less so than a tenant.

They have a right to their short-term life preferences, but they don't have a right to achieve them at someone else's expense, in terms of time, energy, mental stress, or resources.

So broadly speaking, they either need to fully support themselves, or they must negotiate their place.
"Full support" isn't a requirement of course. But it's the way to achieve the most freedom and independence.

Similarly parents have both a legal and moral obligation to participate in the negotiation, particularly with a troubled child. But that's not the same as a "blank check". The negotiation is to achieve a reasonable balance of everyone's interests, within the available resources and capabilities.

If either party "stonewalls", they are misbehaving. It implies imposing unnecessary and unfair costs on the others without any compensation. All young adults do this to some extent of course - they're naturally quite selfish, and can't be criticized too much for it. But there are limits.

This isn't for babies and very young children of course. But somewhere along the way to adulthood, the child has to become a more of a participant, and less of a dependent.

BTW - We can stop at any point.
I know I'm indirectly criticizing your past, but it's a little like the story of the Frog and the Scorpion - I can't change my nature. I'll argue for my honest opinion (which can change, but it's not likely in this case), or I'll stop.

 

[Knower of nothing]

They do not exist in isolation within the household. Even less so than a tenant.

They have a right to their short-term life preferences, but they don't have a right to achieve them at someone else's expense, in terms of time, energy, mental stress, or resources.

So broadly speaking, they either need to fully support themselves, or they must negotiate their place.
"Full support" isn't a requirement of course. But it's the way to achieve the most freedom and independence.

Similarly parents have both a legal and moral obligation to participate in the negotiation, particularly with a troubled child. But that's not the same as a "blank check". The negotiation is to achieve a reasonable balance of everyone's interests, within the available resources and capabilities.

If either party "stonewalls", they are misbehaving. It implies imposing unnecessary and unfair costs on the others without any compensation. All young adults do this to some extent of course - they're naturally quite selfish, and can't be criticized too much for it. But there are limits.

This isn't for babies and very young children of course. But somewhere along the way to adulthood, the child has to become a more of a participant, and less of a dependent.

BTW - We can stop at any point.
I know I'm indirectly criticizing your past, but it's a little like the story of the Frog and the Scorpion - I can't change my nature. I'll argue for my honest opinion (which can change, but it's not likely in this case), or I'll stop.

Thanks for the concern but don't worry. I don't believe at all that if the motivation is growth that approaching this from such a robotic standpoint will work at all. This isn't the stage to even be discussing the righteousness of it. There's no room for that. It won't do anything but add tension. And that tension piling up is that antagonism I mentioned prior. It is far too early to let a household decay into a boardroom. It's loveless.