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hard to find friends

Shaddock

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
hoped that I learned more english in school...

the whole world feels strange for me and most of the people. its not that I don´t like others, its just that I feel like a alien on another planet. I have autism diagnosis and I learned much social skills in the last years, but its anyway kinda hard for me to find in-depth friendships (and not only small talk and pastime).

I often felt like I am the only one who is like me and that feeling is very scary. the feeling that I will never find a girlfriend and friends who like me. the feeling that nothing what I do can break the glass plane that separates me from others. but I know I am not the only one and there are other people who are like me or kinda similar.

on social media or similiar platforms people always share high-definiton photos (often not very realistic) of themselves and find it unsympathic if someone like me doesn´t want to share their skin or other details with the whole world. but for me other values like honesty and reliability matters and not values like appearance.

I always just want to do a little walk with new people, so I can find out if each other are sympathic or not, but people often say to me that they want to walk too, but ghost me or one day before the meeting they reject their acceptance, which is very frustrating.

furthermore I don´t like group meetings, because I feel uncomfortable in it and so I always to find people who speak with me in pairs, but many people prefer group contact. in addition I am very sensitive to noise, so I always prefer quiet activities like walk in a park or meeting each other at home, which many people find boring.

But many acitivities I feel not comfortable with because its too loud or there are too many people. also I don´t look for people for activities, but for "deep" conversations.

the most people I feel not comfortable with, there are always only very few people where I can imagine a friendship.

do you people feel similiar?

PS: pictures here in the forum are very authentic, which is very sympathic.

I feel like I have always have to protect myself from different stresses, its hard to find a place where I can be myself and feel safe, because there are so many places and things that makes me sick and suffer, where other people can exist without any problems. finding a protection bubble where I can exist and maybe some day become happy. the world for me often feels very dangerous and scary.

noise outside, making me wearing my noise protected ear muffs and when in my home there is noise too, I even don´t feel comfortable there. I often ironically say that it would be great to live in a fallout shelter without any neighbours, with maximum wide walls to protect me from noise and everything.

noise makes me sick, loneliness makes me sick. but actual loneliness is a bit better than in the past. I know that I will never live a life than most of others do, but I also don´t want to, because I have other needs and desire than others. but I also don´t want to rot alone in my room for the rest of my life, because maximum protection also means maximum loneliness like someone in his castle who don´t let somebody in his life.

something in the middle would be perfect. much protection but also friendships and contact in a way I can feel myself comfortable with. luckily there is one person I´m in friendship right now, which is very special for me, because in the past I had many contacts, but most of them "just" internet-contacts and false friends or contacts which were very unstabile and frustrating for me.
 
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@Shaddock , I feel for your loneliness. I was socially isolated and it was so traumatic I have needed assistance for the PTSD. However, by age 25 I started to learn to be more social, and learned enough to successfully meet and start a relationship with my spouse. I was not diagnosed until I was 60, so had to make changes to myself unaided. Do not discount activities. I have special interests for outdoor activities and have developed skills that I thought were beyond me. Here I have found groups who are welcoming and accepting. Here is a group of us two weeks ago skiing in a National Forest where we were led by a naturalist. I'm the one in yellow in the back. We had a great time with food around a fire afterwards. Sharing experiences seems to be a way of bonding with people, ND and NT alike.
Screenshot_20220318-181453_Gmail.jpg
 
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ps. I do not hide my ASD from anybody anymore and know that there are kindred spirits in the activity groups I participate in and honestly enjoy and like the people.
 
wow this positive reactions are very overwhelming for me and makes me smile. thank you very much! most of the time I avoid forums because I fear negative reactions and hate, but I am very surprised in a positive way.

if a person is sympathic for me, I often tell them that I have autism too, because I want to explain why sometimes I appear different to other people. Also for me autism is a part of myself, which I accept and nothing I should feel ashamed about.
 
do you people feel similiar?

Yes. I've felt similarly. A few things I've learned that are helpful:

1. Most people aren't comfortable having deep conversations with people they barely know. They need to get to know you first. Once they know you better, they'll be interested if they like you, trust you, and are interested in the topic you want to discuss.

2. I came to the same conclusion as you that protecting yourself from others results in greater loneliness. I felt like I was alone in an empty fortress since the walls I built to protect myself from others prevented me from being myself and fully enjoying my life.

3. The way I overcame my anxiety so I could be myself was by becoming less sensitive. Emotions are primarily caused by your own thoughts and beliefs (including interpretations of things that happen or happened to you). For example, if you interpret criticism as people attacking you or as confirmation that you're defective, you're going to feel worse when people criticize you. If you interpret criticism as advice to help you become a better person, you may find that you don't feel worse and sometimes even feel better when people criticize you. Generally, the more positive beliefs you form about yourself and other people and the more positively you interpret other people's behavior, the less sensitive you will be to negative things that happen to you and the easier your life will become.
 
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Hello!

NT get tired from deep conversation in the same way we get tired from small talk.

NT brains are wired to multitask whithout deep while ASD brains are wired to hiperfocus on one task and going deep.

On the long run its better to learn how to accept criticism and rejection as @Matthias told you. If we have a 99% fail rate at making friends we just need to met 1k people to make 10 friends, which is a nice number.

The way of being alone and behind walls leads to depression, and depressed people suffer more that those who try and fail to make friends.
 
I can sympathize. It can be difficult meeting people and feeling disconnected and lonely. When I was first diagnosed, I self isolated myself from everything and that made it more difficult. I sometimes even now find that I push people away as a protective measure for myself.


Are there any ASD groups in your area? Sometimes what helps to connect initially with others is to meet people who are similar to you.
 
Hello all

"NT get tired from deep conversation in the same way we get tired from small talk.

NT brains are wired to multitask whithout deep while ASD brains are wired to hiperfocus on one task and going deep."

well, this would explain plenty

there is a sort of online platform, a mix between forum and social media and I asked more than 400 people if they are interestet in meeting each other (friendship).

2/3 don´t even answered. Many refused instantly. but 30-40 answered with "Yes we can meet each other, I am looking for friendship too, walk in the park sounds nice"

BUT
BUT

and thats the most frustratic for me...

most of them ghosted me, which means if I ask them for a clear date/time, they were no answer anymore. Sometimes we wrote many weeks and the person always said "Yes we can meet" and repeated this, but NEVER ever said a clear date or did anything. They said they want to meet me, but they just didn´t do it. I hate that. How disingenuous. And some people gave me a date, but 1 day before they said "Oh sry my grandmother fall over, I have to decline the meeting", but then ghosted me afterwards, no answer anymore, no new appointment.

only 5 of 30-40 people did what they promised and met me.

and what I hate too: many people say something like "no profile picture? no meeting", but I am like "profile picture, why? its friendship, appearance doesn´t matter there, how superficial... and also the person can see my in real life, it makes no sense that they need a picture". Also it makes it not more safe, because every picture can be stolen from somewhere else and can be fake. It makes someone no less serious if they didn´t want to show their face to the whole world (because some people want privacy protection).

I just think that most people are not interested in things like honesty or so on, only are interested in superficial things like the appearance of someone. Some people said to me that they could figure out the personality of someone only with a photo of him/her. Nothing else to say...

1 of 5 turned into a friendship, what was great but the others didn´t want to meet me a second time, some ghosted me after the first meeting or said they want to meet me again, but then ghosted me.

I hate when people say me that they like me and want to meet me, but afterwards instant ghost me. If they don´t want to, its no problem, but then, they should say it directly, but I hate liers.

I also tried to speak to neighbours in my age and asked them if they want to meet up and talk about more than only neighborhood, 2 said "Yes", but then ghosted me too. Always the same. They always say they want to meet me, but then, they do nothing. And if I ask again, they do nothing or they say "I don´t want to anymore, because you asked me and that puts me under pressure."

but waiting 5 years for the first meeting is not an option for me. thats just unhonesty.

I would like if people do what they say or just be quiet, but I always need some short time to figure out if the person in front of me is reliable and honest or not, that costs time and nerves.

because noone says "Yes, I am liar", everyone says that they are honest and reliable, but most of people are not. at least not in a way I would ever call "honest".

they are not many ASD groups in my are, but also I don´t focus on meeting only with other ASDs, because in my experience I don´t fit better with other ASDs and I don´t want to put people in drawers.

I was on many german ASD forums some time ago, but the experience was... mixed. ASDs are not better than NTs and vice versa. It always depends on the singular person.

I also tried to get friends in work some time ago, but they always said "you can join or group" but I don´t like groups, but noone wanted to really speak in pairs. And some others said that they separate work and private life.

I often wondered why it is so hard to find real friends, because most of the people wants one, but then I recognised that every person defines "friendship" different and so many people don´t want the same, even if they also want friends.

people rejects my requests faster than I can find people which I can ask. I think that it is "only" a aspect of time, until I find more friends. Months or years. and maybe many hundreds of people.

"Most people aren't comfortable having deep conversations with people they barely know. They need to get to know you first. Once they know you better, they'll be interested if they like you, trust you, and are interested in the topic you want to discuss."

I find that paradoxical. How is someone able to find out if each other match, if they don´t do something to find out.

Some people said "I don´t want to meet you, because I don´t know", but I said "You can not really get to know me, if you never meet me, because writing with each other is not really knowing each other."

and I don´t get why many people want a photo of me or senseless informations and how these informations could help them to better know me.

if you want to get to know somebody, you just easily need to meet each other, speak like a half or full hour and then often you know if each other are sympathic or not.

but this whole **** with "Oh hey give me a profile picture" and so on makes no sense and is absolutely irrelevant for me. It helps me a ****. (I hope "****" is a allowed word, don´t know).

many people act absolutely irrational for me, which frustrates me.
 
I have trouble making friends in real life too. But I completely understand that I can be off-putting.
But at the same time, sometimes the way people tell us that they don't want to be friends with us can be really mean.
I generally don't have a hard time making friends with other autistic people, or any type of person who has similar interests to me, because we understand each other better :)

My go-to advice for making friends is *always* that it's best to find others with similar interests. :)
 
"My go-to advice for making friends is *always* that it's best to find others with similar interests. :)"

the thing is that I want to speak with people, but I don´t want to do specific activities with them, because most interests I have are interests which I do on my own and don´t like to do with others or where it makes no sense to do this with others. For me it is enough to talk with others, to walk in the park, without doing something special.

and most acitivities I feel not comfortable with, because of noise or too less private atmosphere or too many people. so there are very few activities which are okay for me. walking in the park for example : P playing chess would be okay too, but no disco, concert, etc. cinema is always too loud for me too and boring for me. most acitivites people do, I don´t want to do, whether alone or with others.

there was a person who said I would have "no interests", but thats not true and whether yes, I should do which makes me fun and not what other people want me to do or what the most people do.

and I don´t find that I am boring at all, because I had conversations that took many hours and no participant was bored. and if someone can talk with me over many hours with having fun, I would not call me a "boring" person. Even if it is "just" talking without doing others things. maybe my body does less things, but my head is still very active. : P

But yeah most to all people combine acitivites/interests with friendship, but I don´t do that and normally I don´t want too.

Also most of my friends had very different interests, but that was no problem and for me it was not important.

When I like a person, speaking with him/her is so satisfying for me that I don´t need to do anything else in the same time. Often I focus so hard in the conversation, that it would distract me from other acitivities or vice versa. For many it sounds boring, but a person I like is enough for me, I don´t need "extras."
 
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"My go-to advice for making friends is *always* that it's best to find others with similar interests. :)"

the thing is that I want to speak with people, but I don´t want to do specific activities with them, because most interests I have are interests which I do on my own and don´t like to do with others or where it makes no sense to do this with others. For me it is enough to talk with others, to walk in the park, without doing something special.

But yeah most to all people combine acitivites/interests with friendship, but I don´t do that and normally I don´t want too.

Also most of my friends had very different interests, but that was no problem and for me it was not important.

You can definitely have friends who have different interests as well :)

And it's perfectly okay to have interests that you like doing by yourself. I have those too.

I would be really happy if someone I wanted to be friends with asked me to go for a walk in the park, or just sit down and talk with me. That's very nice :)
 
they are not many ASD groups in my are, but also I don´t focus on meeting only with other ASDs, because in my experience I don´t fit better with other ASDs and I don´t want to put people in drawers.

I was on many german ASD forums some time ago, but the experience was... mixed. ASDs are not better than NTs and vice versa. It always depends on the singular person.

Its not necessarily about putting people in drawers or labelling them in a collective. However, if you're really struggling to connect with people sometimes it is a good way to reach out to people who are going to understand you at first to give you that confidence and branch out. I didn't think much of meeting others with ASD when I was a teenager, but that changed when I met others at University who were also on the spectrum. We were never in a box when we hung out, and many of us had different interests but we used the friendships to gain the confidence to meet others. I didn't like one that I met from it because he wasn't a nice person and would constantly put others down.

Even joining a sports club is helpful because everyone is there with the interest of enjoying their sport that they like or want to try something new. There could also be chess groups in your area. Even going to the local nerd board game place when they have tables to play table tops and card games can also be fun. Although if you are female, it can be quite intimidating thanks to gate-keeping.:(

I wish you luck.
 
I thought l was friends with a lady and now she tried to twist it to sexual weird thing. And l am thinking nope- l am just talkative and you are good about talking ideas out and we kinda learn from each other. She kinda of makes me think about my daughter who isn't really close to me. But thats about where it goes.

A female can't be friends with another female on the planet? I saved her life twice but thats what friends do, they are there for you. The whole friend thing is confusing with people who don't get friends.
 
@Shaddock Now I'm curious, how do you bond with people?

I actually learned the hard way that most adult humans don't look for friends, just for sex partners, but they are almost never open about it, which creates huge problems. I suspect people who want your photo probably just try to check you out if you are attractive, to see if they want to do the mating dance with you.

Actually, do you even feel attraction yourself?
 
@Shaddock Now I'm curious, how do you bond with people?

I actually learned the hard way that most adult humans don't look for friends, just for sex partners, but they are almost never open about it, which creates huge problems. I suspect people who want your photo probably just try to check you out if you are attractive, to see if they want to do the mating dance with you.

Actually, do you even feel attraction yourself?

She is on the spectrum. So we have had our ups and downs for awhile. Sometimes l get upset but we have been friends for awhile.

l don't seek out super closeness lately because l deal with some depression issues which is forcing me home more. Attraction is tricky for me. Most of the time l am not attracted. But one person came into my life and l find him very attractive. He is on the spectrum. I find his looks and qualities attractive. Everybody thinks they can tell me who to see but it's nobody's business. I don't like dating at my age. Nope. I really didn't enjoy dating that much in my lifetime because of being stalked by someone for 4 years.
 
I actually learned the hard way that most adult humans don't look for friends, just for sex partners
Well, I guess that makes me weird once more. I have platonic friendships and enjoy the connections. Even at my loneliest, I wanted to be friends first. When I first met my spouse, the wonderful friendship gained through a shared adventure eliminated my significant anxiety at losing my virginity to a more experienced woman. This was something that I was not expecting or looking towards when contacting her to share a ride to a trail maintenance trip.
 
Wow, so many things to say:

1) There is a way to make friends with humans like there is a way to make friends with dogs or any other social animal. You cant jump into a dog who doesnt know you and just hug it by surprise. Even the most friendly dog would get scared or agressive.

The recipe to do human friends is to let them know you and get their own idea of what kind of person you are (it would be like allowing dogs to have time to smell you). We do that sharing activities, like joining a chess club and having some casual conversations while you play a game or joining a hiking club.

There is an even better way that is to help or provide value to others. A dog would be more happy to be your friend if you gave him some of his favourite food or healed his wounds. In the same way, people you help will be more likely to be your friend.

2) The word friendship is misunderstood by ASD in general. What friendship means for NT is closer to the "Alliance" english word. There is a non written contract of the alliance terms. This my be difficult to see by very emotional people, but it goes like this:

  • I may behave like your friend as long as you.....
So in a group of people whose central characteristic is being Christian one of the alliance condition would be ....as long as you are Christian too... and if you happen to become Muslim you no longer meet the alliance contract and you are out of the alliance.

People who is not aware of this get surprised and wonders why they lost their friends after they changed activities, get economical succeed, disclosure they are gays, says they love certain strange activity or somehow broke the rules of their alliance. All human groups have this rules and we ASD are specialists in broking them all.

This also happen in families. Was everyone friendly while you helped them and now you need help they turn their backs on you? Well, your alliance contract especified that you was the helper, and by asking for help you are breaking your alliance contract. Farewell.

3) Its totally ok not to trust humans who ask us "I want to be your friend". Humans do feed and care Pigs, Cows and Chiken so those animals love them and trust them so they gain weigth faster to be eaten/sold by their caregivers.

So if someone ask me "May I be your friend?", the first thing I will think is "What is this person plotting?". Thats why the direct aproach is just used by small kids. No adult would use it, and thus it doesnt work.

Good luck. :)
 
The recipe to do human friends

The hard part is finding someone compatible though. How to do that without going crazy from interacting with incompatible majority? This is why clubs don't work well, why would I want to, for example, hike with bunch of incompatible loud humans? It was so much worse than going alone when I was forced to have company like that.

I do like your description of alliance, it would definitely help if people were open and honest about it. It's easy with dogs, because their rules are the same like mine. Recipe to befriending me is the same as befriending a dog: fun time together, pets, treats. That's why befriending dogs is relatively easy and natural.

Hmm, so maybe good question would be, where do I find humans who are open about their alliance terms? :catface:
 
The hard part is finding someone compatible though. How to do that without going crazy from interacting with incompatible majority? This is why clubs don't work well, why would I want to, for example, hike with bunch of incompatible loud humans? It was so much worse than going alone when I was forced to have company like that.
I have said this before, so people who know my writing have heard this before. Please do not make a blanket decision about activity clubs/groups. It took me a while to figure out what I liked and who I found compatible. I was able to find like minded people in activity groups I started belonging to when I first started to be social. What I would look for:
  • Are they accepting?
  • Are they inclusive and see that people are given the opportunity to participate and contribute?
  • Do they work to train and develop their members in skills and leadership?
  • Are expectations for participants clear?
  • Are leaders supportive?
I was able to progress to a trip leader in a few organizations and always worked hard to see that people have a good time. The last my spouse and I led was a snowshoe at a conservation area overlooking Lake Michigan in January. It was -6 F out and twelve people enjoyed it with us. We had a tailgate spread of bacon, homemade pastries, and Mexican chocolate. Everybody had a great time. I'm looking forward to leading more outings this summer. While there are many social occassions that take a lot out of me, doing things with these people is easy.

I used such activity groups to practice being social when I was lonely and decided that I needed to change. I studied social communication because it was alien to me, and after gaining confidence with the activity groups, I started dating. Mistakes were made and slowly I learned the values, temperment, and character of women I was attracted to. I started a longer term relationship, but we were not compatible. Then, signing up for a trail maintenance trip the leader sent out a trip roster with the suggestion that we car pool. There was a woman from a city where I would be near before the trip, and I decided to call her. It was easy since I had no expectations. She and I talked over three months discussing equipment and training and we finally met the evening before setting out. We had 4 days before meeting the group and had adventures. We developed a deep friendship. By that time I knew that she was the one for me and she found me attractive. As she explained when I was hesitant about intimacy (my mind was confused) we are taking our friendship to a new level. We have been together for 44 years.

Never discount anything because you cannot predict the connections you make.
 
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@Gerald Wilgus

I think this is the first time I've seen a "repetition warning" in one of these posts, so a word of support:

Firstly, I really like these posts - I read them all, even though I've almost memorized the core content :) I think a version of this should be saved permanently as an "FAQ" somewhere on the site.

IMO the path you followed is inspirational for anyone here who hasn't found a way to come to terms with the NT world. I can confirm that it's effective for ND's.

I wrote some text about why it works, but it was too long ...

... the TL-DR version: if you spend some time with people (e.g. any shared activity that lasts long enough) and don't do anything unreasonable, they stop being concerned about non-standard but harmless social patterns.
At that point you can either just be yourself, or you can use it as an opportunity to learn. It's a win either way.

So please keep posting this Gerald, and if it becomes an FAQ, keep referring to it.
At worst you'll get some "competition" by inspiring others to share achievable paths to becoming more comfortable in the "NT world" :)
 

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