Hello :) Can you please help me understand what happened to my ASD-NT marriage?

[Ladyliss]

Hi everyone

I'm NT, but struggling to understand separation from my (undiagnosed, probably) high functioning ASD husband. I think the relationship is done, but there are some things about it that still deeply confuse me, and I'm here to see if someone can kindly help me see it from his point of view. I'll put my questions here, but please tell me which area of the forum to post in if there is somewhere better.

Okay, basic background. We have two kids, and have only just separated. The main recurring arguments for us were who looks after the kids, how we schedule our time, the details of how things should be done, and the lack of "relating" in our relationship (that one was mine, lol).

My ex has had a very warm relationship with our older daughter (2.5) since she was about 1 year old. Before that age he found her very difficult (she was). He said things like "she doesn't give anything back", which I found mystifying at the time but now put down to the fact that toddlers are probably a lot easier for him to read than babies. Our younger daughter (11 months) is just now passing to the magic age that he finds 'workable' for looking after her.

Our relationship, from my point of view, has been 'dead' for a long while. We met, we fell in love, he was incredibly attentive and affectionate and interested, and then we moved countries and he was depressed and overwhelmed and avoidant. I put it down to depression, we came home, he improved, we got married. Sex was irregular, but happened sometimes when I initiated it. But pretty much by the honeymoon, I felt like most of the time he was irritable, preoccupied, and ignored me. We went to counselling. Little changed. We had our first daughter. He couldn't look after her because he coudn't cope with the crying. I took it on, thinking that it was just because she cried a lot (she did). Then something confusing happened once she turned one...

He got affectionate, interested, and warm WITH HER. Which is lovely! But it also showed me how deeply unaffectionate, disinterested and cold he was with me. I had gotten used to it, and thought he was depressed and therefore unable to be warm. But then I saw, he was able to have what I considered a warm relationship, just not with me.

Things got slowly worse. I said that I needed more from him. I got anxious and depressed. I said that I couldn't continue with the relationship as it was. I went to counselling myself. I started pointing out the things he did that caused me to feel so un-loved. And nothing changed. It was like he heard it, but was unable to do anything about it, and wanted me to stop bringing it up, please, because it made him feel really bad about himself.

And finally, we broke up. The final straws were:

1. I wanted to return to work, he wanted me to look after the kids. I felt controlled.
2. He lost his temper about things around the house one too many times.
3. I had gone far too long without affection and it was making me sick.

And the last one is a bit harder to explain. Once he finally realised that I would actually end the relationship unless things changed fundamentally and immediately, he started saying that he wanted "the family". Which I understand on one level (of course I wanted the family to be together too), but on another level it seemed REALLY MYSTIFYING. Because if he wanted the family to stay together, the one, obvious (I thought) thing to do was to work on our relationship. But I never could see any progress on any of the things that weren't working in our relationship. To me, it seemed like:

1. He wanted the FUNCTION of our relationship (family together), not the relationship itself.
2. He wanted me to stay for that function, but not to be with me in any way I understand.
3. He expected me to stay for these reasons, and was actually suprised that I wouldn't.
4. He either wouldn't, or couldn't, do the things that would actually enable me to stay.

He said that I can't change him. He said that deep down, he's afraid that he's incapable of relationships. He asked me to break up with him, almost like he was asking to be 'let off the hook'. He said that he needed it to 'not be his fault'. He said that he loves me, and always will, and that he has been trying so hard and is so upset that I can't see it (and when he says that even I felt terrible that I can't see it, but I literally couldn't see it). He said it's like he was trying to start a car for all those years, trying and trying to get the car going so that he could come and see me using the car, but he couldn't start it. I didn't know what the trying even was, and kept asking him to get more help through counselling, but he DID NOT want to open up 'our problems' to third parties. He said he know our problems were, in fact, his problems.

So. Finally to my questions. I have accepted the relationship is done, but I still wonder...

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

WHAT does it mean when he says he loves me, if the way that he loves me looks so very different to the way that he loves our daughters?

I once told him that he should imagine how our girls would feel if he never hugged them again (he's very affectionate with them). This was to help him understand how I couldn't cope with the lack of our relationship. He said "oh", in a sad way, as if he was picturing how sad our daughters would be if he never hugged them again. And this is what confuses me. If he "gets it" for them, why doesn't he "get it" for me? Or does he get it, and is he unable to do anything about it? And if so, why?!

Long introdution, but there is my struggle

Can you help?

 

[Momo]

I find it very difficult to show my love to people as an aspie, and will sometimes go through periods where I just can't talk to people let alone stomach affection. Especially after a big change. Without a whole lot of alone time, if I'm just trying to force it to be better it will only get worse. He probably can more easily show affection to your daughters because he can understand children better, their needs are more simple, with adults it's a whole lot more complicated. I'm generally disinterested with the act of love making, not even interested in trying it, to be honest, it's pretty low on my priority list. If I love someone I'm more likely to show it in small ways rather than being overt, such as telling them things that bother me (pretty rare), putting in effort into areas I usually wouldn't such as appearance, and sharing my interests. If things aren't stated as plainly as possible it can be hard for an autistic person to understand (we can be very literal at times). If your husband is autistic, then he likely does love you and doesn't know how to express it, it's pretty common actually. But you shouldn't feel bad if the relationship wasn't fulfilling your needs, it can be difficult, but you must serve yourself in order to serve your children best.

 

[Keigan]

He is aspie, no doubt.

lf. I started pointing out the things he did that caused me to feel so un-loved. And nothing changed. It was like he heard it, but was unable to do anything about it, and wanted me to stop bringing it up, please, because it made him feel really bad about himself.

Pointing out problems to an aspie is like tossing your relationship out the window, watching it fall to the ground and be blown away by the wind, with no regards or concerns.

 

[Keigan]

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

Because his relationship with them is clean, he has not failed. With you he has a failure, he does not know how to logically correct that failure because the failure is probably emotional. So he backs down, becomes withdrawn - because he does not know how to fix feelings.

 

[Keigan]

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

Family is a noun, a people place or thing - he can understand that.

Relationship is not a noun to him, it is based upon emotions feelings which he does not get.

 

[Keigan]

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

He was trying to find a way to fix things, logically. Not emotionally. So I'm his mind, he is trying.

 

[wight]

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

Because little children 2-3 are not subtle, their needs are simple and straightforward, and they are demanding in their needs. If they want a hug, they come take one. This would be easy for him to understand, interpret and respond to. It is very likely that this would change as the children got older and harder to "read" their wants and needs.

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

He probably did understand it, but simply was unable to do whatever needed to be done. Even when prompted with specific things.

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

I totally understand his car analogy. He wanted to see you, he wanted to get to you, but didn't know how, or wasn't emotionally able to do so, no matter how hard he tried. Using the car analogy, a car with no gas won't go.

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

This is probably NOT related to ASD (if that is what he has). I grew up in a very "we don't talk about our problems" kind of household, especially not to anyone outside the family. That gets very ingrained and you actually feel fear of talking to "3rd parties". This is really a shame/self-esteem problem that is pretty common and crosses a lot of social and cultural boundaries.

WHAT does it mean when he says he loves me, if the way that he loves me looks so very different to the way that he loves our daughters?

I don't know. Love is not quantifiable in the way I think you are asking. The love I feel for my wife looks different than the love I feel for our dogs. It doesn't make it any less real, or any less love.

***
It is probably best that you separate. For a relationship to exist and function both people in it have to have their needs met, if one isn't, or the other is just not capable of meeting those needs...it is just better for everyone involved to end it. Especially when children are involved. Not that I'm a big fan of Dr. Phil, but he has a point when he says that kids are better off coming from a happy divorced home than a toxic together one.

 

[Keigan]

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

Aspies almost never ask for help, because they have already figured it out - our brains solve every possible resolution prior to us answering. Besides, involving a third party is one more person who won't understand him, who he can't connect with and can't explain things.

 

[Warmheart]

My best considerations:

He can likely relate to children once they stop the crying stage (a sensory torment to his fragile nerves).
It is (for now) easier and safer for him to express his love to the kids than to you, because engaging with you (for now) may represent confusion, failure, and a mystifying vagueness, plus increased demands while he's overloaded.

If his ASD were recognized, it could then be supported.
If his challenges relating, communicating, and expressing caring could be supported, he could then:
Understand himself
Feel understood
Have his solitude buffers in place so that his social energy won't get drained, and he's happier to engage with you(that's a big one)

Check out:
*Grace Myhill* by Googling her. She works with ASD/NT couples on emotional intimacy, communication, and allowing both sides to understand the needs of the other.
Highly recommended--> *Eva Mendez (Mendes?)* also does this service, plus I think she will do this through Skype, too!
The whole point to these ASD/NT couples counselors is that it isn't the person with ASD's "fault" at all. Both sides can understand each other better, and when the social, communication, and engagement challenges of the Aspie/Autie are supported, a new closeness can be found.

I would
1. Give him buffers of solitude in order for him to decompress after any interaction with anyone-- doctor visit, work, you, phone call from his friend, etc. Solitude is not just downtime... it's solitude! He needs plenty of time to recover and decompress, before even a text, call, visit, etc. Let him know you are offering him these buffers so he can feel better, less stressed, more well.

2. Pick up "The Autism Discussion Page" blue book from Amazon, about $25. This will open your eyes to his challenges in relating, executive functioning, and much more, plus offer understanding and strategies. It's written about kids, but also adults, too. When we're verbal, our autism "goes undercover," and we get judged... so learning what helps him feel supported can result in him succeeding in many ways.

3. Ask him if he feels better having deep communication through emails, instead of face to face verbal communication.
It might release some pressure, allow him to process more calmly, and possibly access better some of his deeper feelings.

4. Take good care of YOU! For now, get your emotional needs met through gal pals, exercising with a buddy, going to a movie with a friend, some good long phone conversations with relatable female pals who can give you support and affirmations.

5. If he loves you, he'd like to meet your emotional needs, too. He may right now feel overwhelmed, misunderstood, (even by himself), confused, and bound for failure.
Understanding his ASD better, being given solitude breaks, finding a pro to support his ASD challenges in the relationship, can all contribute to his feeling less stressed and more eager to find ways to connect. The way he connects and emotionally supports you may look different than what you have in mind, (it may be he fixes your dishwasher instead of saying "I love you," or he might need long solitude breaks of several days before he feels ready to hug or hold hands again) but be open.

Best success!

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Hello, first I would like to welcome to the group. I am glad you came here for support or to learn more about others' perspective on things. I think you seem very well meaning by what you wrote, and so if I say anything that you find offensive it was not my intention. It seems like you just may want more answers, and to understand what went wrong, and to find out why your husband was doing certain things. By coming here to this forum, you could get that direction.

I will say, in at least one way, it looks unfair to you, as your husband earlier was affectionate to you, but then later showed much distance. Realize though, his acceptance of that then may have been prior to any sexual relationship. He may have been fine with hugging or kissing, on those less physical levels. But, once any further physical contact was required, and with expectation that bond get closer and closer this could have scared him or been not comforting to him, especially if he felt more pressures to change as the relationship developed.

That is maybe too why he was ok with small children after that infant stage. He could show those smaller comfort pleasures without that crying emotion, and as he knew they would not require any more physical contact than that. In ways, he seems to have that delayed emotional ability and feels more peace in relationships on a less emotionally complex scale. He thus cannot handle pressures from others to change, and to do more than what he can do. He knows therapists would force him to change.

His definition of family and love seems to differ than yours. You see a family and love as more traditionally, like the husband and wife expressing to each other a different type of love and communication, than what is shown to the children. He sees a family bond and love as basically the same for all. If you had been more emotionally like a child, and with less needs, perhaps he would have continued to treat you like them, with that affection. He seems to have given up there, as he knows you want more, and as you are disagreeing with him on other issues and wanting him to change. Most NTs expect change and compromise in relationships. He may not be able to do that.

The truth is usually somewhere in between. Maybe I see often both sides because I feel caught in the middle between being an NT and Aspie. Or maybe it is just because I do not assume things what I see and hear. In this case, I feel both sides are likely doing the best they can, and committing some wrongs, so neither should be bolting out the door quickly, in absense of any and all abuse, and as long as the children were being loved and respected by both parents. How would the children like that father to be out of the picture? Has anyone asked them? Personally, I feel this situation could be resolved if both wanted it to. It sounds like he just has love and definitions of family different from yours. That does not mean he is wrong.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Whenever someone asks me for more its so hard not to give less.

I go into shutdown, everything i thought i knew is then questioned and the crux may well be..
I just dont know how to do it any other way and the stress involved is too much sometimes.
Trying to process and trhying to conform to someone elses expectations just mzy not be possible.
If its all done intellectually,intreprated literally... how am i to understand a language based on feelings?
If someone asks me how im feeling i cluldnt even tell you 90% of the time.

Do you have any idea how difficult it can be to exist in this world of communication, where it takes constant effort 24/7 just to get to the starting gate?
How easy is it for you to stand in someone elses shoes?
We are constantly asked to, but perhaps would be asked a lot less if people knew how hard it is.

Kind of like that,maybe. Mostly me,but only sometimes.

I know its kind of hard on both sides, and maybe not possible.

But i would follow warmheart, 100%.

 

[Suzanne]

My husband says of me: I know you love me in your own way. He is EXTREMELY affectionate with me, but I find it to be VERY annoying; not always; but mostly.

What he was saying with the illustration of the car, was that he sees that he needs to change, but actually has no idea how to change for the better.

Perhaps the reason why he is attentive to his daughter, is because, in a strange way, she is not demanding affection from him, even though, well she is, because she is an infant; but perhaps because she does not say: give me a hug or kiss etc, he feels the pressure off his shoulders and can give freely.

It is easy to FUNCTION in a marriage. Work, house cleaning; child raring etc but to be in a RELATIONSHIP, that is vastly different.

My husband has said of me: it is not nice to come home, after work and you not greet me at the door and so, I had to force myself to meet him at the door, but I confess, my thoughts were else where. But I do have the ability to put my feet in his shoes, so to speak and so, thought how I would feel if he did not greet me and I would not like it.

You, naturally want affection and he wants a practial marriage. He doesn't want to be hassled with emotions, because perhaps he does not understand emotions very well? It takes me a long time to figure out what I am feeling, before I can share.

 

[Maiki]

1. I wanted to return to work, he wanted me to look after the kids. I felt controlled.
2. He lost his temper about things around the house one too many times.
3. I had gone far too long without affection and it was making me sick.

I'm an Aspie gal married to an "NT to the nth degree" guy. We were talking this morning (our 3 girls--aged 14, 12 and 8 yrs are away for their annual summer visit with Grandma) about how incredibly lucky we are that we met when very young, so we have grown-up alongside each other. We have gone through some similar issues to what you describe... and so many other incredible challenges. It has been very tough at times. The benefit that I attribute to having started our relationship as teenagers, then working/ studying apart (getting through 6 years of an extremely long distance relationship) is that we have never been able to "pigeon hole" each other's identities. What I mean is... we have always viewed each other as evolving individuals. We've had no choice in that! My 44 yr old hubby bears little resemblance to the 17 yr old with whom I fell in love. Don't know if you've heard of the 'Madonna/ whore' bit, where a man can not conceive of one woman occupying both of those identities? It's an extreme eg., but there are people that can't seem to continue relating sexually to their partner, once that partner also carries the role of "parent". It's no longer their sexy girlfriend, but the mother of their children and keeper of their family hearth. So complex to love a moving target-- a person who has one role, then another and another-- sometimes in the same day or simultaneously. Much less messy to affix a specific identity to your partner, but then they need to stay in that same role, or it all falls apart. My thought is that your man wants you to wear the identity: 'nurturing mother and keeper of the home'. But that's not all you are, or all you want to be. That's not who you were when you two fell in love. Love is not a static state.

 

[Ocarina]

Not sure if I can be any help here, but my ex Aspie of 6 years (I am also on the spectrum) behaved in a very similar way.
His daughter is very much the focus of his attention - I suspect because she places very few emotional demands on him and supplies a safe form of closeness. Any hint of conflict in our relationship - even the healthy kind of discussion that relationships require to stay open and honest, sent him running for the hills or at least withdrawing totally.
His dog plays a similar role - total unconditional love with no strings attached. As a partner it was difficult for me to swallow all my needs in order to allow for his need to be fully accepted. Criticism was seen even when it wasn't there and his mantra "I'm no good at relationships" was always there when we hit a bump in the road - as a kind of excuse for not being willing or able to try anything different.
Really sad for all of you - and perhaps most of all for him since this is unlikely to be a problem that will go away.
Not sure if you have any options - either suppress your needs to fulfil his, or leave and you all lose. It's kind of tragic.

 

[Ambi]

Hi everyone

I'm NT, but struggling to understand separation from my (undiagnosed, probably) high functioning ASD husband. I think the relationship is done, but there are some things about it that still deeply confuse me, and I'm here to see if someone can kindly help me see it from his point of view. I'll put my questions here, but please tell me which area of the forum to post in if there is somewhere better.

Okay, basic background. We have two kids, and have only just separated. The main recurring arguments for us were who looks after the kids, how we schedule our time, the details of how things should be done, and the lack of "relating" in our relationship (that one was mine, lol).

My ex has had a very warm relationship with our older daughter (2.5) since she was about 1 year old. Before that age he found her very difficult (she was). He said things like "she doesn't give anything back", which I found mystifying at the time but now put down to the fact that toddlers are probably a lot easier for him to read than babies. Our younger daughter (11 months) is just now passing to the magic age that he finds 'workable' for looking after her.

Our relationship, from my point of view, has been 'dead' for a long while. We met, we fell in love, he was incredibly attentive and affectionate and interested, and then we moved countries and he was depressed and overwhelmed and avoidant. I put it down to depression, we came home, he improved, we got married. Sex was irregular, but happened sometimes when I initiated it. But pretty much by the honeymoon, I felt like most of the time he was irritable, preoccupied, and ignored me. We went to counselling. Little changed. We had our first daughter. He couldn't look after her because he coudn't cope with the crying. I took it on, thinking that it was just because she cried a lot (she did). Then something confusing happened once she turned one...

He got affectionate, interested, and warm WITH HER. Which is lovely! But it also showed me how deeply unaffectionate, disinterested and cold he was with me. I had gotten used to it, and thought he was depressed and therefore unable to be warm. But then I saw, he was able to have what I considered a warm relationship, just not with me.

Things got slowly worse. I said that I needed more from him. I got anxious and depressed. I said that I couldn't continue with the relationship as it was. I went to counselling myself. I started pointing out the things he did that caused me to feel so un-loved. And nothing changed. It was like he heard it, but was unable to do anything about it, and wanted me to stop bringing it up, please, because it made him feel really bad about himself.

And finally, we broke up. The final straws were:

1. I wanted to return to work, he wanted me to look after the kids. I felt controlled.
2. He lost his temper about things around the house one too many times.
3. I had gone far too long without affection and it was making me sick.

And the last one is a bit harder to explain. Once he finally realised that I would actually end the relationship unless things changed fundamentally and immediately, he started saying that he wanted "the family". Which I understand on one level (of course I wanted the family to be together too), but on another level it seemed REALLY MYSTIFYING. Because if he wanted the family to stay together, the one, obvious (I thought) thing to do was to work on our relationship. But I never could see any progress on any of the things that weren't working in our relationship. To me, it seemed like:

1. He wanted the FUNCTION of our relationship (family together), not the relationship itself.
2. He wanted me to stay for that function, but not to be with me in any way I understand.
3. He expected me to stay for these reasons, and was actually suprised that I wouldn't.
4. He either wouldn't, or couldn't, do the things that would actually enable me to stay.

He said that I can't change him. He said that deep down, he's afraid that he's incapable of relationships. He asked me to break up with him, almost like he was asking to be 'let off the hook'. He said that he needed it to 'not be his fault'. He said that he loves me, and always will, and that he has been trying so hard and is so upset that I can't see it (and when he says that even I felt terrible that I can't see it, but I literally couldn't see it). He said it's like he was trying to start a car for all those years, trying and trying to get the car going so that he could come and see me using the car, but he couldn't start it. I didn't know what the trying even was, and kept asking him to get more help through counselling, but he DID NOT want to open up 'our problems' to third parties. He said he know our problems were, in fact, his problems.

So. Finally to my questions. I have accepted the relationship is done, but I still wonder...

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

WHAT does it mean when he says he loves me, if the way that he loves me looks so very different to the way that he loves our daughters?

I once told him that he should imagine how our girls would feel if he never hugged them again (he's very affectionate with them). This was to help him understand how I couldn't cope with the lack of our relationship. He said "oh", in a sad way, as if he was picturing how sad our daughters would be if he never hugged them again. And this is what confuses me. If he "gets it" for them, why doesn't he "get it" for me? Or does he get it, and is he unable to do anything about it? And if so, why?!

Long introdution, but there is my struggle

Can you help?

I so wish I could help! I really sympathize. My suspicion is that he himself just can't even answer the questions you have asked. I hope someone else has more useful ideas, though.

 

[Bella Pines]

Warm welcome . To be going through a break up and still reach out and try to understand both yourself and your husband is incredible. You're in the right place, a lot of people here operate exactly like your husband, but have also been on long journeys trying to understand themselves and how to function in society.

My relationship with my husband is the reverse, I am the aspie and he is so very neurotypical, if it is not an oxymoron, I would say he is extremely neurotypical. So perhaps I can translate your husbands behaviour, I will certainly try.

He said things like "she doesn't give anything back"

I think you've nailed it when you said when they start to talk, he finds it workable. Aspies deal in absolutes, like "daddy I need food", "okay, then I will get you food". End of story. The noise, the crying for no reason, the constant interruptions, these are all sorts of things that overload our brains.

I wanted to return to work, he wanted me to look after the kids. I felt controlled.

Yes, this is him being an idiot.

He lost his temper about things around the house one too many times.

This is a meltdown. There are a whole bunch of threads on this subject if you search for them.

I had gone far too long without affection and it was making me sick.

Yeah this one is you being an idiot. Buy a stuffed bear.

He wanted the FUNCTION of our relationship (family together), not the relationship itself.

That's because you have different interpretations of the word "relationship". The fact that he as bothered staying for all this time and you've survived two children means that he loves you deeply. But knowing that isn't enough for you. But that's your problem.

He wanted me to stay for that function, but not to be with me in any way I understand.

The keyword being "understand". But I hope after reading more about how the aspie brain works, you will move closer to understanding. Now, he also needs to understand you but honestly you are probably several miles ahead of him on that front.

He expected me to stay for these reasons, and was actually surprised that I wouldn't.

Well he may not really understand what he wants. Aspies don't always fully understand their surroundings or brain functions. On a simplistic level he probably things, love wife, want wife to stay, want to say things that makes wife stay, why is wife hopping up and down again?

On a deeper level he has probably spent his entire life not fitting in, trying to make sense of the world and not really having any close friends. So to say "he expected" or "he wanted" is incorrect, I don't think you are quite at the stage where you truely understand what he expects or wants. I don't think he is either.

He either wouldn't, or couldn't, do the things that would actually enable me to stay.

b) couldn't.

He said that I can't change him. He said that deep down, he's afraid that he's incapable of relationships. He asked me to break up with him, almost like he was asking to be 'let off the hook'. He said that he needed it to 'not be his fault'. He said that he loves me, and always will

He said that he loves me, and always will

Oh my gosh, you NTs make no sense to me at all. There, he's said it, for goodness sake be happy and move on! What more could you possibly want? Blood? If so how many milliliters and from where?

And I'm afraid that he is right, you can't change him and why would you want to? Whether you like it or not your children have half of his DNA. Which means they are also susceptible to aspergers, and being brilliant and being geniuses. I would suggest you keep him around in case they need support in these areas.

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

This is an incorrect assessment of the situation. My NT husband once accused me of showing our children a level of affection that I have never showed him.

This was a strange misinterpretation of the situation. What is actually going on is this. We care very very deeply for those around us, but we react logically. My baby son needed skin contact and soothing to fall asleep. My husband is perfectly capable of putting himself to sleep. My baby son needs to sleep in order to grow and is soothed by the sound of my voice. My husband has finished growing and so does not need me to sing to him. I would do anything for the health and well being of my family and this makes perfect sense to me.
Now does it make sense for me to sing to my husband and stroke him to sleep, no, that is most bizarre. You NTs are sometimes incomprehensible.

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

This one isn't an aspie trait. This is just him being an idiot. Did you explain it in these words slowly and perhaps print a t-shirt?

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

Yep, easily. And actually I can read his mind because the structure of is brain is in my head.

I have had the same argument with my husband. We have been together over 17 years now so we don't have this argument much, but I have yelled at him "I AM TRYING".

I would guess that the problem here is that your requirements are not clearly defined.

I bet your requirements are things like "I feel like you are ignoring me" or "I don't feel like you love me" or "I feel that we are drifting apart".

Oh my gosh. If you wrote this down as a requirements document in an office, no one would accept it or sign it off. There are no ACTUAL requirements here, just wooly nonsensical statements that can't be quantified and certainly can't be acted upon.

So try to be rational, imagine you are programming a computer. What would you type?

Maybe something like "I need you to give me a kiss on my cheek when you leave for work". Or "I need you to text me 3 times a day and include the words 'I love you' in at least one of those texts". What is it you ACTUALLY need? Specifically.

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

Because whoever was trying to help you sounded like an idiot.

WHAT does it mean when he says he loves me, if the way that he loves me looks so very different to the way that he loves our daughters?

Because you are not a toddler and I presume you are potty trained. Love is a strange concept, I would die for my family in a heart beat, there is nothing I wouldn't do for them, I once crawled through the hospital without use of my legs leaving a trail of blood just to get to my son because he needed me to hold his hand. Of course the nurses were furious but there isn't anything I wouldn't do for my family.

But do I "love" them in the odd way that NTs use love? I have no idea. It always seems rather nonsensical. I would sing beneath my husbands window if I thought it would help. I wouldn't cry if he started "sharing" with me and I probably wouldn't share back, but that doesn't mean I don't love him in my own way. Personally I think aspie love makes much more sense that this indescribable and unquantifiable thing that NTs keep demanding! Personally I blame the hormones.

I once told him that he should imagine how our girls would feel if he never hugged them again

Well this is a bit unfair. It sounds like you are forcing him to be you. I can't imagine how other people feel, I have tried, but it doesn't work that way. It's like asking a brick to feel like water and then yelling at said brick for not rippling.

Can you help?

Well I honestly tried and so hope very much I have helped and not made you angry??

 

[Ladyliss]

Thanks guys. I only just got back on here to read all the answers, and really appreciate the effort you went to. And Bella Pines you made me laugh , not angry. I actually think I'm surrounded by ASD (suspected dad, confirmed sister, probable for my two other brothers, confirmed for one nephew) so it's little wonder I managed to choose another one. On nearly every level (the exception being, apparently, marriage!) I find neurodiverse company pretty comfortable.

So en-masse, I think you've confirmed my suspicions that there must be something fundamentally different about how his mind works that means this outcome is likely unavoidable. I will look at the resources you suggested, Warmheart. I don't think he can or will work on it with me though. He has no diagnosis, and either doesn't have any idea that he might warrant one, or suspects and doesn't want to know. I think it's probably that he doesn't want to know, because his sister has autism and associated syndromes, so the possibility MUST have occurred to him but he wants to think of himself as 'not like her'. Now I think us breaking up is painful and sad, but also 'lets him off the hook' in terms of demand to address things and is a relief for that reason. Which is fair enough, it is his right not to address or change things after all, I just really, REALLY wish we could have tried something like NT-ASD counselling.

Bella Pines, I have been specific (I think?!). Like, actually said, I need you to hug me. Touch me more often. Have sex, even if it's only sometimes. Look at me. I realise that if he is on the spectrum this is like requesting him to jump through rings of fire before breakfast. His reaction was: I don't feel like doing those things, and to make myself is not a good outcome. Which is no doubt true. Before suspecting ASD I thought there must be a reason for him not wanting those things, but one that could be CHANGED. Because he DID want them, originally. Which I guess now I understand is different, when you're awash with the hormones of limerence and haven't yet had to live with someone who puts things all the wrong way and then relied on you wanting them. I was fooled because he wanted them once upon a time! Maybe he was fooled too. I do think he came to understand that I NEED them in order to be happy in a relationship with him, I now think that the problem is that his nature does not allow him to deliver. Like you said, Wight. He know's what I was asking for, but for some reason not how to do it.

The good news is that he's definitely staying in our daughter's lives. He is a very committed parent, and I'll always support him in that. When we're not torturing ourselves over what went wrong (he's very keen to bury that conversation, and I think I need to accept that) we actually work quite well together. It's just that I can't have the part I have felt for so long is missing - the emotional connection. Or the ability to share a house with him, apparently. Dadwithtwoautisticsons, what you're saying about our definitions of relationship and family being different is bang on, I think. I suspect we actually agree on the ideal, but in failing to reach that, we differ on the "fallback" option. His fallback was more about staying together and being a practical family for our girls. Mine is more about having emotional needs met, and modelling good relationships for our girls. We can both keep our priorities, but if we can't deliver on each others then we can't be together, and I think that's where we're at.

Experiencing a rare moment of peace with the whole thing... I asked for what I needed but it is unfair to insist upon it, if he can't or won't be that for me and I can't forgo those needs or adapt in the ways that he wants me to, then the fair thing is to let it go and focus on being good parents.

 

[Ladyliss]

He said that he loves me, and always will

Oh my gosh, you NTs make no sense to me at all. There, he's said it, for goodness sake be happy and move on! What more could you possibly want? Blood? If so how many milliliters and from where?

Oh my goodness

This made me laugh, but you have a good point. Yes, I do need more to know than that he loves me. It's not blood that I need, but no doubt it feels like it to him and no, teddy bear cannot deliver (I don't think adults are so different from children in this regard).

You're right, I shouldn't try to change him unless he wishes to change. The difficult thing is that I suspect he does wish to be different, and to want what it is that I'm asking for, it's just that he doesn't believe it's possible. I don't know if it is, I wish we'd had a better shot at finding out.

 

[Rocco]

It's all pain

 

[Sabrina]

1. He wanted the FUNCTION of our relationship (family together), not the relationship itself.
2. He wanted me to stay for that function, but not to be with me in any way I understand.
3. He expected me to stay for these reasons, and was actually suprised that I wouldn't.
4. He either wouldn't, or couldn't, do the things that would actually enable me to stay.

I read your post when it was published in July, and it finally made me understand my (still officially) husband.
I finally understood what was going on in our relationship; because that’s exactly him, and reading items 4 and 5, made me see that I was right, and he was not. He had played a lot the guilty card on me, making me feel as if I was a bad mom for wanting to separate the kids from him.

Reading this post made a huge difference to take the decision to separate. I just wanted to say thank you for your insight.

I had confronted my husband a few months earlier, when he suggested we should go to couples’ therapy. I had asked him directly, ‘Is it because you want a relationship with me, or is it because you want to live with the kids?’ He just stared blankly.

Reading what you wrote, made me snap out of it (we actually went to couples’ therapy because he insisted so much) . Reading yor post made me think ‘What am I doing? This is really over. For good’.

So thank you. Again.