Hello from a new member

[DuckRabbit]

My processing issues are at both ends; my mother always asks me if I'm deaf. The neurologists who tested me said the same thing. There's nothing wrong with my hearing. I remember not understanding instructions at school and college (and bugging whoever was sitting next to me), which I imagine was the first sign my professor picked up on that something wasn't right with me. Add to that my poor pronunciation and tendency to mix up and substitute words or say things in the wrong order, and of course my poor social skills. I didn't make a single friend in college, but I did participate the hell out of class when applicable. Shy I was not.

I disagree with the last statement. Those on the spectrum can be just as manipulative, exploitative and sadistic as those who are not. We are human first, spectrum second. My cousin, for example. He is big, strong, violent and non-verbal by choice. He would beat the crap out his younger brother every chance he got, and the parents never found out, naturally, because the response would have been: "Oh, he's autistic, he can't help it, he doesn't know what he's doing." People mistake 'low functioning' as 'dumb'. He milked it with the parents for all it was worth. The younger brother one day had enough and gave him some of his own medicine, and it never happened again after that.

I'm sure there are other nasty stories out there.

As for the younger bro, he's a carer now, and the stories he has told would make you cry with laughter, they are both horrifying and hilarious. (One client biting the ear off another client, who loved slapping people, for example.) He has the patience of Job. I told him he should write a book.

I agree. There is some speculation that Hitler was on the autistic spectrum. My book gives other examples of people on the spectrum perpetrating power abuses. I think the best way to avoid the traps of demonisation/ pathologisation or romanticisation of a whole category of people is to view individuals as more or less evolved - morally, psychologically, or spiritually, and NTs and ASD individuals can be either or a mix of both in different areas. Those who are less evolved perpetrate power abuses whereas those who are more evolved protect the power of others and stand up to power abuses (I know standing up to power abuses is not always possible cf. the Holocaust - some people can't resist a 'just world hypothesis' mind-set though, 'blaming the victim', which is itself another form of abuse).

Glad that the younger brother is okay and is doing such important work. I hope he writes a book about his experiences

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I've enjoyed watching this dialogue develop. May I put my oar in?

Getting into the Asperger literature has really helped me to understand certain students better and not get affronted at certain behaviours!

I wonder if some therapists, however well-meaning, are inadvertently narrow-minded because they have ascended seamlessly through educational and occupational levels - without the many obstacles that Asperger individuals encounter? They therefore have little motivation to acquire a nuanced understanding of autistic spectrum conditions. I have heard some 'experts' parroting the most stereotyped views on Asperger's - possibly reinforced by the Hollywood autism trope and not a little projection...But do you think that just anyone could identify someone as being autistic? We do this when we identify certain people as introverts, and others as extraverts, so my feeling is why should we not do this with the NT/AS distinction? (Apologies if there is a thread already on this 'diagnostic' issue).

Strongly agree on the therapists being blinded by their own education. We all are: we can only see what we expect to see. (Witness the number of people, including myself, who did not see the gorilla on the basketball court during a game, even when the ball was passed!)

A recurring theme I see on the board are the number of us whose comorbid conditions mask the thing I secretly suspect drives a lot of the obvious unipolar, bipolar, anxiety, and ADD/ADHD: Asperger's, the neurobiology itself. We have lots of diagnoses, get guided tours of psychopharmacology, and nothing seems to work well...things get a little better, after years of experimentation, but the fundamental problems don't go away.

What do you find are the most apparent characteristics in undiagnosed females that denote Asperger's? Or rather which traits do you tend to notice first?

The b word. Rhymes with "itch." We aren't comforting, nurturing supporting models except with those very close to us or issues that matter very much to us. I'd love to know whether there's a significant correlation of AS in females to the Myers-Briggs type INTJ, who are also notable for this attribute. Your HFA female student being concerned about other students not liking her knows what she's talking about. I quit grad school over exactly this issue.

The first thing to notice: does she sit alone, stand alone, always in a book or on the smartphone? The advent of new and attractive models make the last one hard to use. Does she "start" an unfilled table rather than join a table with people on it? Sit in the very front or on the edges, consistently? Talk at length, and knowledgably, preferably to the instructor?

How does your professor know you don't process things properly? This might be reflected only in the processing that others can see: in one's verbal output, in the heat of the moment. In some cases it may not be the processing that's atypical but rather the communication of that processing - putting one's thoughts into words in a social context with all the attendant social expectations and pressures.

I would love to see a thread start on that topic, I think some particular minds on this board would give, and get, a great deal from it.

I disagree with the last statement. Those on the spectrum can be just as manipulative, exploitative and sadistic as those who are not.

I don't disagree with you, but I'd like to pose a question. Is AS mutually exclusive with psychopathy? I think it is, because I, at least, feel intense empathy, but I have a very hard time showing it. I do know a sociopath with an AS sibling. Either one of them is capable of firing people (and both of them have), but only one of them feels remorse.

AS is not part of the dark triad, and I don't think it should be.

I think the best way to avoid the traps of demonisation/ pathologisation or romanticisation of a whole category of people is to view individuals as more or less evolved - morally, psychologically, or spiritually, and NTs and ASD individuals can be either or a mix of both in different areas. Those who are less evolved perpetrate power abuses whereas those who are more evolved protect the power of others and stand up to power abuses

This is one of the ideas I'd love to see explored further.

So glad you've joined us! Welcome, and I anticipate your future posts.

Regards,
A4H

 

[DuckRabbit]

The first thing to notice: does she sit alone, stand alone, always in a book or on the smartphone? The advent of new and attractive models make the last one hard to use. Does she "start" an unfilled table rather than join a table with people on it? Sit in the very front or on the edges, consistently? Talk at length, and knowledgably, preferably to the instructor?

Great observations, all of these.

I don't disagree with you, but I'd like to pose a question. Is AS mutually exclusive with psychopathy? I think it is, because I, at least, feel intense empathy, but I have a very hard time showing it. I do know a sociopath with an AS sibling. Either one of them is capable of firing people (and both of them have), but only one of them feels remorse.

AS is not part of the dark triad, and I don't think it should be.

Whenever some violent crime is committed, numerous 'experts' come out of the woodwork to declare that the person was probably a 'loner' and 'has Asperger Syndrome'. Autistics and their families get upset because they know how gentle and non-aggressive many ASD individuals are. In my view, there is no necessary correlation between ASD and psychopathology; just because someone has a paucity of friends and commits a violent crime does not necessarily mean that they are on the spectrum. Conversely, I think it is perfectly possible for a person to be on the spectrum and also be a psychopath cf. my examples above. To me, this would signify an unevolved Asperger - no morals, no spiritual consciousness, no conscience etc. I debate in my book the extent to which NT psychopaths differ from AS psychopaths, and argue that there are some differences. I agree, though, that this is an area that needs to be studied further. The ability to feel intense empathy is of course prima facie an indicator of an evolved Asperger.

This is one of the ideas I'd love to see explored further.

As a social psychologist, I have explored these ideas further in my book. I appreciate your detailed response to my posts and hope to read more of yours.

 

[Walsie]

Great observations, all of these.

Whenever some violent crime is committed, numerous 'experts' come out of the woodwork to declare that the person was probably a 'loner' and 'has Asperger Syndrome'. Autistics and their families get upset because they know how gentle and non-aggressive many ASD individuals are. In my view, there is no necessary correlation between ASD and psychopathology; just because someone has a paucity of friends and commits a violent crime does not necessarily mean that they are on the spectrum. Conversely, I think it is perfectly possible for a person to be on the spectrum and also be a psychopath cf. my examples above. To me, this would signify an unevolved Asperger - no morals, no spiritual consciousness, no conscience etc. I debate in my book the extent to which NT psychopaths differ from AS psychopaths, and argue that there are some differences. I agree, though, that this is an area that needs to be studied further. The ability to feel intense empathy is of course prima facie an indicator of an evolved Asperger.

Nicely explained, and those 'experts' vex me with their harty-darty eagerness to jump on the bandwagon and make a name for themselves. It was what I was trying to get at. I liken these psychopaths on the spectrum with pit bulls compared to other breeds. 'Experts' tout these as vicious and aggressive. They 'forget' these are dogs (sometimes mistreated) first, and pit-bulls second.

Regarding Hitler, I heard from a documentary he was the first leader to pass laws protecting animals. Apparently he had an affinity with dogs.

The b word. Rhymes with "itch." We aren't comforting, nurturing supporting models except with those very close to us or issues that matter very much to us. I'd love to know whether there's a significant correlation of AS in females to the Myers-Briggs type INTJ, who are also notable for this attribute. Your HFA female student being concerned about other students not liking her knows what she's talking about. I quit grad school over exactly this issue.

The first thing to notice: does she sit alone, stand alone, always in a book or on the smartphone? The advent of new and attractive models make the last one hard to use. Does she "start" an unfilled table rather than join a table with people on it? Sit in the very front or on the edges, consistently? Talk at length, and knowledgably, preferably to the instructor?

Regards,
A4H

Excellent observations seconded. That said, there was no way in hell I ever brought a book to class or talked extensively or knowledgeably with the instructor. The latter died with childhood, and bringing a book means not being aware of the environment, which is folly in my experience. Sit at the edges consistently? Hell yes, also consistent with low social status.

I'm sorry you had to quit graduate school.

Low status has been linked to health issues, particularly if it persists over years and through all areas of life.

I don't think I'm an INTJ. Both strangers and friends alike have described me as 'sweet', even though I'm not nurturing. A friend of mine is grateful I treat her son as an adult, even though he's a six-year old (but a brilliant one), instead of talking down to him like other adults. I don't understand why some adults use a 'babyish' tone of voice to communicate with kids.

 

[ASD_Geek]

Hello and welcome to the forum!. I hope that you find a lot of information here. The people here are great