Hi all! Need your advice, please!

[mpoulini]

Hi! I am new here, I guess i am an NT girl (well 40year old haha), in love with a 45 year old aspie guy. Well, he is not diagnosed, but I m pretty sure, I am a doctor and it is pretty obvious to me, though it is not to him or his family. I am saying this cause I think it is important, he is the sweetest guy, very smart, a bit awkward but very kindhearted and honest, but some difficulties i can see he is facing, everyone around him, considers them to be eccentric features. (this is probably the best time to mention my native language is not English, so please be patient).

Anyway, we met through mutual friends 2,5 years ago. I quickly became attracted and tried to get to know him. As I initially thought he was shy, I took the initiative to ask him out. He said yes but kept postponing, it took about a month for us to go out, it was perfect and then at the end of the date he told me he hadn't had a relationship for 5 years and for no reason at all he was not interested in a relationship. I was devastated. On the next few months we kept meeting in groups of friends and he was giving a lot of mixed signals so I decided to give it another try, because as time went by I was falling for him.

Anyway, long story short, 2 years later, 2 more rejections later, many many nights out together, few kisses, some jealousy outbursts on his behalf when other guys showed interest in me, we are now at one point were he has completely shut me off. He only makes tiny moves to keep me close when I cannot stand the loneliness of this one sided "relationship" (I know it s not a relationship) and show him I've had enough.

I know all this might sound a bit sad, on my behalf. When all this started I thought I was dealing with a very shy guy. At some point I got mad and thought I am out of here. But then, i realised, that given the fact that I KNOW what a great person he is, something else must be going on. And then it came to me, embarrassed to say, very late. That he is on the spectrum, meaning, we see and experience things differently.

I am sure of it. I have read tons of books, blogs etc. Most probably we will not make it. Because I am afraid I am not the only one who cannot understand. I think this whole thing might have been more frustrating for him than for me.

What I am asking from you, if that is possible, is a bit of enlightenment, so I can empathize, not from my point of view.
Thanks.

 

[Shamar]

Hi! I am new here, I guess i am an NT girl (well 40year old haha), in love with a 45 year old aspie guy. Well, he is not diagnosed, but I m pretty sure, I am a doctor and it is pretty obvious to me, though it is not to him or his family. I am saying this cause I think it is important, he is the sweetest guy, very smart, a bit awkward but very kindhearted and honest, but some difficulties i can see he is facing, everyone around him, considers them to be eccentric features. (this is probably the best time to mention my native language is not English, so please be patient).

Anyway, we met through mutual friends 2,5 years ago. I quickly became attracted and tried to get to know him. As I initially thought he was shy, I took the initiative to ask him out. He said yes but kept postponing, it took about a month for us to go out, it was perfect and then at the end of the date he told me he hadn't had a relationship for 5 years and for no reason at all he was not interested in a relationship. I was devastated. On the next few months we kept meeting in groups of friends and he was giving a lot of mixed signals so I decided to give it another try, because as time went by I was falling for him.

Anyway, long story short, 2 years later, 2 more rejections later, many many nights out together, few kisses, some jealousy outbursts on his behalf when other guys showed interest in me, we are now at one point were he has completely shut me off. He only makes tiny moves to keep me close when I cannot stand the loneliness of this one sided "relationship" (I know it s not a relationship) and show him I've had enough.

I know all this might sound a bit sad, on my behalf. When all this started I thought I was dealing with a very shy guy. At some point I got mad and thought I am out of here. But then, i realised, that given the fact that I KNOW what a great person he is, something else must be going on. And then it came to me, embarrassed to say, very late. That he is on the spectrum, meaning, we see and experience things differently.

I am sure of it. I have read tons of books, blogs etc. Most probably we will not make it. Because I am afraid I am not the only one who cannot understand. I think this whole thing might have been more frustrating for him than for me.

What I am asking from you, if that is possible, is a bit of enlightenment, so I can empathize, not from my point of view.
Thanks.

I am very high functioning autistic, anthrophobic, and alexithymic. I cannot form bonds or connections to other people despite an intense desire to do so. It seems the brain connections that allow this are just not there. I can have feelings, but other than pleasant or unpleasant, I cannot express them or attach meaning. It sounds like your friend has something similar going on. I can form a transient connection I call "relief from loneliness" which starts to fade away as soon as I no longer feel lonely. The frustration of watching something I desire so much fade away is more painful than the original loneliness. As a result, I tend to avoid relationships since, in the long run, I can't have relationships.

I hope this gives you some insight an I wish you luck.

 

[Aspychata]

Guess it's easier if you are on the spectrum also. Then it's just doing business as usual. We really aren't into 24/7 people mode. Feel bad for you that you are expecting normal but the truth is a lot of us stay single. I have read of successful relationships of both being on the spectrum. Maybe read some of the past posts here to get a better feeling of this.

 

[Tom]

Dealing with awkwardness is one thing but it seems pretty evident this person is not interested in any sort of serious relationship. So continuing to push for it would seem controlling/manipulative to me.

Unless of course you happen to be:

 

[mpoulini]

I am very high functioning autistic, anthrophobic, and alexithymic. I cannot form bonds or connections to other people despite an intense desire to do so. It seems the brain connections that allow this are just not there. I can have feelings, but other than pleasant or unpleasant, I cannot express them or attach meaning. It sounds like your friend has something similar going on. I can form a transient connection I call "relief from loneliness" which starts to fade away as soon as I no longer feel lonely. The frustration of watching something I desire so much fade away is more painful than the original loneliness. As a result, I tend to avoid relationships since, in the long run, I can't have relationships.

I hope this gives you some insight an I wish you luck.

First of all, thank you so much for this answer. It really helped me understand a bit. I have a million questions of course, but bottom line is I understand. I was very sad reading it, but i really appreciate it, wish he was able to talk to me like that. Thanks!

 

[mpoulini]

Dealing with awkwardness is one thing but it seems pretty evident this person is not interested in any sort of serious relationship. So continuing to push for it would seem controlling/manipulative to me.

You are right. I insisted too much and too long. To my defence I wouldn t be like that with another guy. But he is different, and kind, and always seemed interested "from a distance" in me, going back and forth, and he is special enough to feel safe with him to not give up on him. Later when I realised that maybe we were wired differently, I would maybe text once in a while without expecting a text back, or try to meet at his own pace etc...
But in the past few months it is true that I was anxious that maybe he just wanted his space and nothing more and I didn t want to impose. So I dissapeared a couple of times and he always showed up, flirting a bit. I was enthousiastic both times, only to see him disappear in horror almost immediately.
I understand what you say. But I honestly wouldnt want him to be someone else. I would like to understand, and I would realy like to be with him, in a way that suits both of us, even if it means I have to change some expectations. Manipulating someone into doing things takes away all the pleasure. and I dont believe there is one right way of doing things. Having said that, I know this whole thing will not happen. I just wish, at least, that if it doesnt happen, its because he didnt want it, not because we didnt find a way to make it work

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

Yes. In the light of these things it appears he hasn't formed a systematic view of what signals he wants to send or how to send them (I hadn't by that age; I solved the problem by hanging back altogether).

In this society it appears no-one uses system to do anything; it has probably never been modelled by anyone else.

 

[Aspychata]

Think it's best to describe us as snails when it comes to emotions. We put feelers out, feel around then retreat to take counsel with our emotional temperature, then some of us aren't great at social intricacies, so we go back out with feelers, re-feel, re-think, & retreat, just leaving the other person thinking wtf?☺ l am going to coin this as the snail theory. Lol

 

[Crossbreed]

I (ASD1) grew up in a huggy family and like hugs from people who are appropriately close. My ASD3 daughter is even less particular about who she would hug.

Does he like hugs from his family members?
If yes, he may, one day, be more receptive of a girlfriend > wife.
If no, he is less likely to reach out in that way (though the occurrence of jealousy is intriguing).

 

[mpoulini]

I (ASD1) grew up in a huggy family and like hugs from people who are appropriately close. My ASD3 daughter is even less particular about who she would hug.

Does he like hugs from his family members?
If yes, he may, one day, be more receptive of a girlfriend > wife.
If no, he is less likely to reach out in that way (though the occurrence of jealousy is intriguing).

Well as far as I know, his father was very strict and serious, so I imagine not too many hugs there... But his brother, whom I know very well, is a very tender/ sentimental guy. Plus, I have hugged him many times and although he seemed a bit awkward, I am pretty sure it was something he enjoyed (otherwise of course I wouldnt have repeated). Having said that, he himself has never initiated close contact, apart from our first kiss, that was all him. Of course I was dying to kiss him, but did not want to impose as by that time I suspected he was on the spectrum and was trying to respect his own speed on things - almost died waiting for about a year. But after we kissed and he seemed comfortable and very happy for a few hours, he freaked the next day and everything was ruined ever since. it took him about a month to even say hi to me, even though I never asked to discuss or analyse things...
I am not optimistic, but thanks so much everyone.
All I keep wishing, by reading your answers though is, I hope I am not making him feel worse by trying to make it work. I mean, if it is so hard for him, is it possible that every time I try and "fail", it s not just me feeling like ****?

 

[Thinx]

Can't you say this to him? What's to lose? I mean, can't you ask him about how he feels if he thinks a woman may get serious about him? Maybe he can't envisage getting close enough for sex, for example. Maybe he has a high sensitivity to smells, and people however clean seem whiffy to him. You could also share some points about how all the signs he's giving add up, in your mind, it could be an interesting revelation for him. Or not obviously.

I guess though that if you can't think of a suitable or sensitive way forward, that could be more the issue, and might indicate work on yourself that could help. Perhaps working on your own attachment security, would help to help you feel more confident and competent in that area, as many people, NT or ND have to do in order to have satisfying close relationships with people who do not do their half of the work.

Secure people can take the load better, and have the option to be the mainstay of a partnership if they love a person who can't do so much of the emotional relating work.

Learnt security is just as good as given security, better maybe. Find out your attachment style and go from there. Google attachment style tests. Good luck!

 

[Aspychata]

Can't you say this to him? What's to lose? I mean, can't you ask him about how he feels if he thinks a woman may get serious about him? Maybe he can't envisage getting close enough for sex, for example. Maybe he has a high sensitivity to smells, and people however clean seem whiffy to him. You could also share some points about how all the signs he's giving add up, in your mind, it could be an interesting revelation for him. Or not obviously.

I guess though that if you can't think of a suitable or sensitive way forward, that could be more the issue, and might indicate work on yourself that could help. Perhaps working on your own attachment security, would help to help you feel more confident and competent in that area, as many people, NT or ND have to do in order to have satisfying close relationships with people who do not do their half of the work.

Secure people can take the load better, and have the option to be the mainstay of a partnership if they love a person who can't do so much of the emotional relating work.

Learnt security is just as good as given security, better maybe. Find out your attachment style and go from there. Google attachment style tests. Good luck!

Reading about attachment styles really helped me a lot. It also helped me examined my childhood upbringing a little closer which just opened a huge amount of feelings that l finally allowed out.

 

[mpoulini]

Can't you say this to him? What's to lose? I mean, can't you ask him about how he feels if he thinks a woman may get serious about him? Maybe he can't envisage getting close enough for sex, for example. Maybe he has a high sensitivity to smells, and people however clean seem whiffy to him. You could also share some points about how all the signs he's giving add up, in your mind, it could be an interesting revelation for him. Or not obviously.

I guess though that if you can't think of a suitable or sensitive way forward, that could be more the issue, and might indicate work on yourself that could help. Perhaps working on your own attachment security, would help to help you feel more confident and competent in that area, as many people, NT or ND have to do in order to have satisfying close relationships with people who do not do their half of the work.

Secure people can take the load better, and have the option to be the mainstay of a partnership if they love a person who can't do so much of the emotional relating work.

Learnt security is just as good as given security, better maybe. Find out your attachment style and go from there. Google attachment style tests. Good luck!

Can't you say this to him? What's to lose? I mean, can't you ask him about how he feels if he thinks a woman may get serious about him? Maybe he can't envisage getting close enough for sex, for example. Maybe he has a high sensitivity to smells, and people however clean seem whiffy to him. You could also share some points about how all the signs he's giving add up, in your mind, it could be an interesting revelation for him. Or not obviously.

I guess though that if you can't think of a suitable or sensitive way forward, that could be more the issue, and might indicate work on yourself that could help. Perhaps working on your own attachment security, would help to help you feel more confident and competent in that area, as many people, NT or ND have to do in order to have satisfying close relationships with people who do not do their half of the work.

Secure people can take the load better, and have the option to be the mainstay of a partnership if they love a person who can't do so much of the emotional relating work.

Learnt security is just as good as given security, better maybe. Find out your attachment style and go from there. Google attachment style tests. Good luck!

Yeah... I have told him, I have asked. Got no reply. Literally, nothing. Just awkward smiles and then anxious "got to go". So I didnt ask again, tried to facilitate a decision on his part.
I get what you say about attachment styles, I never was the anxious/insecure one, although I guess that's exactly what I sound like now.. But there s a difference I think in not wanting to waste a good thing and being scared of being alone. I am not scared of being alone. I actually like it.
If we were in a relationship, I m sure I would have no problem to not be together 24/7. That s not what makes a relationship true. Although sure, I would want closer contact than him. Emotional I mean.
Anyway, as I said, for some reason, it's impossible to talk about these things, no matter how much i try. I am not gonna lie, I sometimes insecurely think he politely tries to avoid me by not answering anything. But, I have to trust my instinct that tells me that he doesnt respond because us being together is something he both wants and is anxious about. So I just try to give him time to decode and to give me time to understand.
And you guys help me a lot.

 

[Aspychata]

Yeah... I have told him, I have asked. Got no reply. Literally, nothing. Just awkward smiles and then anxious "got to go". So I didnt ask again, tried to facilitate a decision on his part.
I get what you say about attachment styles, I never was the anxious/insecure one, although I guess that's exactly what I sound like now.. But there s a difference I think in not wanting to waste a good thing and being scared of being alone. I am not scared of being alone. I actually like it.
If we were in a relationship, I m sure I would have no problem to not be together 24/7. That s not what makes a relationship true. Although sure, I would want closer contact than him. Emotional I mean.
Anyway, as I said, for some reason, it's impossible to talk about these things, no matter how much i try. I am not gonna lie, I sometimes insecurely think he politely tries to avoid me by not answering anything. But, I have to trust my instinct that tells me that he doesnt respond because us being together is something he both wants and is anxious about. So I just try to give him time to decode and to give me time to understand.
And you guys help me a lot.

He may have anxiety attachment style then. I know when l felt really close - l backpedaled away as fast as l could. Because l don't like that part of me. So l caused a few dings and broke up. Then l became more trusting of this person and worked through anxiety. I still experience some anxiety but l don't slam the door shut now. Luckily he realised it wasn't him, it was me trying to cope.

 

[Thinx]

There are two main insecure attachment styles; anxious preoccupied, which is a style most of us would recognise as anxious, the person shows concerns and may cling. The second is anxious avoidant, this is where a child finds its best course is to cope and be independent, carers are unavailable or can't help. This child often seems to cope well to others, and to be independent and self reliant.

As an adult, their difficulties in relating come from having had to close down their needs and manage without emotional support from others, and also having not had safe and close experiences of managing their feelings of dependence with caring others beside them to help. Relating can be stressful therefore and they need space, tend to be uncomfortable having dependence on others and may feel oppressed by or criticise others feeling and needs. The style is called Dismissive avoidant in adults, but is based on childhood anxiety that has caused the person to avoid and shut out stress by shutting off their own emotional system.

People who are confident and independent may not be secure in their attachment style, therefore. Unlike the different brain functions of autism, which we can work around rather than change, the attachment system is able to be worked on and with, and development can be resumed. Many people will develop and progress over time, or through consciously working on this in therapy or through self help learning from books or courses, that they put into practice.

It's not a quick fix to attain learnt security, but anyone can work towards it. If we do feel and act from a genuinely secure style in a relationship, we wouldn't feel easily hurt or stressed by the way the other person is, and can mostly see a way forward that's helpful and a win win. We know ourselves well, and can understand and make allowances for others even when they are at the far end of their own insecure attachment behaviours, which may be complicated by autism or other issues.

Most people are always working towards this ideal, of course that's the reality, no one's perfectly secure, nor does it mean they don't get into arguments or have bad days. We all do.

The research tells us that ND people and NT people have similar amounts of people in each of the four main styles, subject also to cultural and gender differences. The fourth style has the least membership, this is the insecure style dubbed disorganised or as an adult, Fearful avoidant, this can be where care givers were problematically inconsistent, not necessarily through intent, but may have been abusive parenting. The person finds trust in others hard, and has little self confidence.

Just to add that these categories are very broad and just describe a general working model of the way things are we have taken on board, but that we can and do modify as we live and experience new things, or learn from our relating and or from work in therapy.

 

[Crossbreed]

There are two main insecure attachment styles; anxious preoccupied, which is a style most of us would recognise as anxious, the person shows concerns and may cling. The second is anxious avoidant, this is where a child finds its best course is to cope and be independent, carers are unavailable or can't help. This child often seems to cope well to others, and to be independent and self reliant.

I am probably somewhere in the middle. I prefer affection/attachment where I can come by it rightfully, but can go into "solo" mode when necessary.

 

[Thinx]

I am probably somewhere in the middle. I prefer affection/attachment where I can come by it rightfully, but can go into "solo" mode when necessary.

Sounds like you're perhaps more Secure than insecure, try an online test to get a feel for this.

 

[Crossbreed]

...try an online test to get a feel for this.

Link?

 

[Aspychata]

There are two main insecure attachment styles; anxious preoccupied, which is a style most of us would recognise as anxious, the person shows concerns and may cling. The second is anxious avoidant, this is where a child finds its best course is to cope and be independent, carers are unavailable or can't help. This child often seems to cope well to others, and to be independent and self reliant.

As an adult, their difficulties in relating come from having had to close down their needs and manage without emotional support from others, and also having not had safe and close experiences of managing their feelings of dependence with caring others beside them to help. Relating can be stressful therefore and they need space, tend to be uncomfortable having dependence on others and may feel oppressed by or criticise others feeling and needs. The style is called Dismissive avoidant in adults, but is based on childhood anxiety that has caused the person to avoid and shut out stress by shutting off their own emotional system.

People who are confident and independent may not be secure in their attachment style, therefore. Unlike the different brain functions of autism, which we can work around rather than change, the attachment system is able to be worked on and with, and development can be resumed. Many people will develop and progress over time, or through consciously working on this in therapy or through self help learning from books or courses, that they put into practice.

It's not a quick fix to attain learnt security, but anyone can work towards it. If we do feel and act from a genuinely secure style in a relationship, we wouldn't feel easily hurt or stressed by the way the other person is, and can mostly see a way forward that's helpful and a win win. We know ourselves well, and can understand and make allowances for others even when they are at the far end of their own insecure attachment behaviours, which may be complicated by autism or other issues.

Most people are always working towards this ideal, of course that's the reality, no one's perfectly secure, nor does it mean they don't get into arguments or have bad days. We all do.

The research tells us that ND people and NT people have similar amounts of people in each of the four main styles, subject also to cultural and gender differences. The fourth style has the least membership, this is the insecure style dubbed disorganised or as an adult, Fearful avoidant, this can be where care givers were problematically inconsistent, not necessarily through intent, but may have been abusive parenting. The person finds trust in others hard, and has little self confidence.

Just to add that these categories are very broad and just describe a general working model of the way things are we have taken on board, but that we can and do modify as we live and experience new things, or learn from our relating and or from work in therapy.

Thanks Thinx for taking the time to type this out.

I identify with dismissive avoident. But l am also on the spectrum, so l don't have a super big need to have social contacts.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Yeah, I had a similar sort of situation. I thought the guy was just shy so I gave home way too much time and too many chances.

I suspected he was on the spectrum, then he told me he thinks he's an aspie. That explains things, I thought.

Hot and cold is what I got. I couldn't work it out.

Then he started a serious relationship with someone else.

Guess what? Not shy. Not just being an aspie.

I was a placeholder until he found what he actually wanted.

Don't give guys who mess you around a second thought. Do you think they're sitting at home trying to work you out like you're trying to work him out?

Big old nope.

They're not worth it, no matter how nice and fun and charming they are.

Move on and find someone who actually wants to be with you.