Hi. I've got a question about Aspies and emotions.

[Greg]

I actually read about this somewhere. Part of the reason is that while other children are spending time looking at eyes, we are looking at parts of faces or staring off into the distance. We are completely missing vital communication information in people's faces as we grow up because we just aren't looking. Honestly, until I learned about the autism spectrum, I had no idea I *should* look at people's eyes.. I'd look at foreheads and noses or an earring or stare off just beyond people's shoulder when they'd talk to me. But looking back, now it makes sense why my step dad would always get mad and yell "look at me when I'm talking to you" or why I got in trouble so much as a kid for lying when I wasn't lying at all. I try and look at people's eyes now, but I just end up staring... and I still can't "read" anything there. Have you taken that test with the eyes/emotions, Greg? I think it was the most uncomfortable test I've ever taken but I made myself finish because I wanted to know my score.. I did way way worse than I would have just guessing answers..I think I got like 10% right. Well into the autism range.

I definitely take things literally and only notice this when people call me out on it.. like if they follow up by directly telling me they were joking. At which point, I will understand the joke and laugh. I get sarcasm only when I know a person well. I tend to use a lot of sarcasm myself, but nobody ever gets it so I'm pretty sure my humour is off.

I have not taken the test. How do I take it? I will probably get a big fat 0 For me it makes me self conscious to look into someones eyes. Usually will look at their mouth or forehead but not into their eyes. Don't know what it is about it. In thinking about it I have difficulty in processing what someone is trying to tell me so I will read what they are saying that way I make sure and not miss anything. As a kid a lot I got in trouble for not paying attention.

 

[kris]

I have not taken the test. How do I take it? I will probably get a big fat 0 For me it makes me self conscious to look into someones eyes. Usually will look at their mouth or forehead but not into their eyes. Don't know what it is about it. In thinking about it I have difficulty in processing what someone is trying to tell me so I will read what they are saying that way I make sure and not miss anything. As a kid a lot I got in trouble for not paying attention.

Oh I feel the same way looking into people's eyes.. I'm reading Temple Grandin's book "the autistic brain" right now and she makes a really cool point in it..
"A 2011 fMRI study in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders found that in brains in a sample of high-functioning autism and typically developing individuals seemed to respond to eye contact in opposite fashions In the NT brain, the right temporoparietal junction (TPJ) was active to direct gaze, while in the autisic subject, the TPJ was active to averted gaze. Researchers think that the TPJ is associated with social tasks that include judgments of other's mental states. The study found the opposite pattern in the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex: in NTs, activation to averted gaze, in autistics, activation to direct gaze. So it's not that autistics don't respond to eye contact, it's that their response is the opposite of neurotypical's."

Fascinating, right? She also goes on to point out that it's different than just a preference for objects over faces.. it's an actual avoidance of faces.

And I think that got quite off topic from the OP, but I just think it's so interesting!

Here is the link to the eye test..
Test your social intelligence

PS I got in a lot of trouble growing up for not paying attention, too.. but that was legit.. I wasn't paying attention most of the time.

 

[Greg]

Oh I feel the same way looking into people's eyes.. I'm reading Temple Grandin's book "the autistic brain" right now and she makes a really cool point in it..
"A 2011 fMRI study in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders found that in brains in a sample of high-functioning autism and typically developing individuals seemed to respond to eye contact in opposite fashions In the NT brain, the right temporoparietal junction (TPJ) was active to direct gaze, while in the autisic subject, the TPJ was active to averted gaze. Researchers think that the TPJ is associated with social tasks that include judgments of other's mental states. The study found the opposite pattern in the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex: in NTs, activation to averted gaze, in autistics, activation to direct gaze. So it's not that autistics don't respond to eye contact, it's that their response is the opposite of neurotypical's."

Fascinating, right? She also goes on to point out that it's different than just a preference for objects over faces.. it's an actual avoidance of faces.

And I think that got quite off topic from the OP, but I just think it's so interesting!

Here is the link to the eye test..
Test your social intelligence

PS I got in a lot of trouble growing up for not paying attention, too.. but that was legit.. I wasn't paying attention most of the time.

I scored 21 out of 36 but most of them was guesses. That was hard judging what the eyes were saying. I would agree with the avoidance of faces.

 

[jamse37]

Just did the eye test. 20 correct. Sorry but I am going to look at women's eyes more often after that.

 

[kris]

I scored 17.. It took me forever and I legit tried.. Even looked up some emotions I didn't know.

 

[tree]

Test your social intelligence

I used the link.
I did the test.
31/36

Recognizing how other people feel from static pictures of faces isn't so difficult.
Recognizing how other people feel in real/fluid time is different.
So is knowing what to do regarding other people.

 

[Aspiedad]

Wow! I'm really impressed at the number of responses and and other interactions generated by my posts! What a great forum! I really hope my daughter will join once she gets out of the hospital. I think it would do her a world of good to be able to interact with all of you. Thank you so much.

 

[EdR]

I actually read about this somewhere. Part of the reason is that while other children are spending time looking at eyes, we are looking at parts of faces or staring off into the distance. We are completely missing vital communication information in people's faces as we grow up because we just aren't looking. Honestly, until I learned about the autism spectrum, I had no idea I *should* look at people's eyes.. I'd look at foreheads and noses or an earring or stare off just beyond people's shoulder when they'd talk to me. But looking back, now it makes sense why my step dad would always get mad and yell "look at me when I'm talking to you" or why I got in trouble so much as a kid for lying when I wasn't lying at all. I try and look at people's eyes now, but I just end up staring... and I still can't "read" anything there.

I think you are right kris, I seldom make eye contact with people. Like you I look at foreheads, other facial features or most likely, look right past the person, often following a moving object with my eyes. (I can just imagine how much this has endeared me to others.) This insight will become of my training regimen immediately.

At dinner I spoke about this with my wife and she confirmed that I seldom look her in the eyes. She mentioned that she initially thought I was a shift person because I didn't look her in the eye very often. So I implemented my new "look-em-in-the-eyes" program.

Unsurprisingly, I was very uncomfortable and could only sustain it for about 10 to 15 seconds, but I kept returning to it for about 10 second intervals. I saw stuff, but similar to staring at a wall of hieroglyphics, it was incomprehensible.

Nevertheless, I will continue making eye contact and see what happens.

 

[EdR]

I don't get sarcasm most of the time. Sometimes I do.

I definitely take things literally and only notice this when people call me out on it.. like if they follow up by directly telling me they were joking. At which point, I will understand the joke and laugh. I get sarcasm only when I know a person well. I tend to use a lot of sarcasm myself, but nobody ever gets it so I'm pretty sure my humour is off.

Interesting. It's "hit-or miss" with me for the most part. Sometimes taking things in literally, and sometimes not. With sarcasm, I simply can't process it on an incoming basis. Yet I can dish it out. I baffle myself to no avail.

I just look back and kind shake my head at myself, realizing that these were some social dynamics I never gave any thought to before becoming self-aware.

One of my stock lines is that I am bilingual; I am fluent in English and sarcasm. I also understand it when someone else is sarcastic, often the only person who understands the sarcasm. Without a doubt I miss some, but others miss mine much more often; depth is an inherent aspect of good sarcasm.

It is likely that I am the most sarcastic and snarky person that I know. In a majority of my interchanges, a sarcastic response comes to mind. I think sarcasm is funny, even hilarious at time. But not everyone seems to agree and I am aware that often my sarcasm was personal and hurtful. So I have learned, a lesson well before my spectrum awareness came into play. One of my most developed shields is my sarcasm shield and I think that today I hold (bite?) back 90 to 95% of my sarcastic responses, applying my sardonic wit judiciously (I hope).

It is a mystery to me that I share your inability to read people yet can understand sarcasm, both coming and going. I learn something about myself on this forum every day.

Thank you all.

 

[Greg]

One of my stock lines is that I am bilingual; I am fluent in English and sarcasm. I also understand it when someone else is sarcastic, often the only person who understands the sarcasm. Without a doubt I miss some, but others miss mine much more often; depth is an inherent aspect of good sarcasm.

It is likely that I am the most sarcastic and snarky person that I know. In a majority of my interchanges, a sarcastic response comes to mind. I think sarcasm is funny, even hilarious at time. But not everyone seems to agree and I am aware that often my sarcasm was personal and hurtful. So I have learned, a lesson well before my spectrum awareness came into play. One of my most developed shields is my sarcasm shield and I think that today I hold (bite?) back 90 to 95% of my sarcastic responses, applying my sardonic wit judiciously (I hope).

It is a mystery to me that I share your inability to read people yet can understand sarcasm, both coming and going. I learn something about myself on this forum every day.

Thank you all.

I can also be very sarcastic as well. Having the ability to really go for the jugular in my cutting comments. Not really a trait that I am proud of but that is the way that I can be.

 

[tree]

I learned to be sarcastic from my mother.
I made a point of unlearning it (as a reaction/a defense) on my own.

 

[kris]

I think you are right kris, I seldom make eye contact with people. Like you I look at foreheads, other facial features or most likely, look right past the person, often following a moving object with my eyes. (I can just imagine how much this has endeared me to others.) This insight will become of my training regimen immediately.

At dinner I spoke about this with my wife and she confirmed that I seldom look her in the eyes. She mentioned that she initially thought I was a shift person because I didn't look her in the eye very often. So I implemented my new "look-em-in-the-eyes" program.

Unsurprisingly, I was very uncomfortable and could only sustain it for about 10 to 15 seconds, but I kept returning to it for about 10 second intervals. I saw stuff, but similar to staring at a wall of hieroglyphics, it was incomprehensible.

Nevertheless, I will continue making eye contact and see what happens.

I found looking at eyes easier when the other person is talking rather than when I'm talking myself. But it's still uncomfortable and I didn't feel like I gained anything so I haven't practiced it in awhile. I remember it taking so much effort to "remember" to do it.

I'd love to hear how it goes for you! Maybe we should start a new thread about this haha.

 

[kris]

Wow! I'm really impressed at the number of responses and and other interactions generated by my posts! What a great forum! I really hope my daughter will join once she gets out of the hospital. I think it would do her a world of good to be able to interact with all of you. Thank you so much.

Hope to see her here as well! If she is able/would like to do some reading from the hospital, there are some great book recommendations here..
Asperger's & Autism Books | AspiesCentral.com

I just finished reading "the curious incident of the dog in the night", a piece of fiction in which the main character is autistic.. it was a really nice read!

Hope she's feeling better soon.

 

[tree]

I just finished reading "the curious incident of the dog in the night", a piece of fiction in which the main character is autistic.. it was a really nice read!

I enjoyed it, too. Have re-read it several times.
Also, aloud, twice, to people.

Reminds me of Catcher in the Rye, the main character.

 

[kris]

Reminds me of Catcher in the Rye, the main character.

You know, that book has been on my shelf for years and I've never read it.. I'll have to do that.

 

[tree]

You know, that book has been on my shelf for years and I've never read it.. I'll have to do that.

I have forgotten the number of times I have touched it and ended up reading it
all the way through.

 

[EdR]

I found looking at eyes easier when the other person is talking rather than when I'm talking myself. But it's still uncomfortable and I didn't feel like I gained anything so I haven't practiced it in awhile. I remember it taking so much effort to "remember" to do it.

I'd love to hear how it goes for you! Maybe we should start a new thread about this haha.

Today was a flop because I never implemented my plan to look people in the eyes. Several times I remembered my intentions, but I was not with anyone when the thought occurred to me. All of my many interactions were performed as usual.

Dinner is in a few minutes, I will concentrate and apply the technique with my wife.

That is the hard part about change, so many of my habits are deeply ingrained and require concentration to implement.

 

[tree]

Today was a flop because I never implemented my plan to look people in the eyes. Several times I remembered my intentions, but I was not with anyone when the thought occurred to me. All of my many interactions were performed as usual.

Dinner is in a few minutes, I will concentrate and apply the technique with my wife.

That is the hard part about change, so many of my habits are deeply ingrained and require concentration to implement.

What is the goal?
To establish contact with the other person?
To figure out the mood of the other person?
A combination of the 2?

 

[EdR]

What is the goal?
To establish contact with the other person?
To figure out the mood of the other person?
A combination of the 2?

I, like many other forum members, have socialization problems and a fairly common handicap we have is the inability to read other peoples emotions and intentions and other information expressed via body language. Kris made the point that she does not make eye contact and that is a key element in normal interactions.

Because I also do not make eye contact, I think that kris is on to something and I am trying to learn how to do it.

 

[kris]

Today was a flop because I never implemented my plan to look people in the eyes. Several times I remembered my intentions, but I was not with anyone when the thought occurred to me. All of my many interactions were performed as usual.

Dinner is in a few minutes, I will concentrate and apply the technique with my wife.

That is the hard part about change, so many of my habits are deeply ingrained and require concentration to implement.

Haha don't be hard on yourself... NT's have been "practicing" since they were born plus they are hard wired to do it

That was my problem with the eye contact thing.. it just took too much concentration to remember.