How Do I Know What I Believe?

[The Pandector]

My father died, Mom married ‘Dad’. Old fashioned, he and his parents never pretended my brother and I were anything like family. He provided for his stepchildren, had nothing else. His parents spoke adoringly about how much Dad loved his children, meaning his own, no mercy. Dad very rarely spoke to his steps.

The greatest problem I had coming to God was that he is personal. A great looming authority figure in no way presented to me as loving or protective, only silently staring in disapproval. Somehow, God kept me on the line for many years as I worked through the enigma of a loving, caring, noticing God, that having God look at me was not dangerous.

What we see in our early years can be difficult to unlearn.

 

[Kavigant]

I've had two dads, but neither one liked me.
I think I was, at least at some point, looking for a loving Father in Heaven.

 

[The Pandector]

I've had two dads, but neither one liked me.
I think I was, at least at some point, looking for a loving Father in Heaven.

We all have that place in our heart.

 

[Jeff T]

I'm a bit older, although just 'mid-functioning' and I think I grok some of what you've told us here.
My approach was from another angle- for many years I was a firm atheist. I wrestled with the religion/atheist interface for a long time. I eventually considered myself as agnostic, although with atheist leanings. Why? Because I only know .00000000000000000000000000000001% of all the knowledge available (and that's being very generous!). How could I be certain there was/were no god/gods?
Several years ago it all pretty much just flamed out. I now have no interest in the whole God debate; and I think I am more of a diluted Spinoza semi-atheist. The boundaries seem all fuzzy.
Perhaps that is an autism thing? We tend to get intense on certain interests, and then move on to new ones?
I hope you achieve contentment with what you are wrestling with right now.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Hi Kavigant.
I hurt myself a lot over this stuff, because I am a Catholic of sorts (not the best sort.) I used the five proofs of God from the work of St Thomas Aquinas to prove the existence of God, but the problem is, I need an emotional connection with God, not just a logical connection. Too much of my faith/religious experience has been based in "Facts and Logic" and conservatism; I want to drop everything and run into the arms of God like a child to a father who actually cares about his sons--not go to God like some sort of freakish plaster-saint prancing prig who is Christian because it is "respectable." I've never been respectable, just odd.

You should always be able to.
You should not feel pressure to put a certain 'box' or be a certain thing to earn God's love.
My own faith has severely suffered for trying to fit a box I could not and it had actually hurt me tremendously and not been as easy as I thought it would be
At the start I did Care a bit because I felt like a reject but I knew God loved me anyway because I always did my best
However over time it has been a lot harder to trying to fit the box of how the bible speaks to me of obedience to God and wonder how it speaks to everyone else.
It is not that I want to disobey, it just comes naturally and I need to live more free but still with a faith in God which is why it has been so difficult

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I think that, even though I have reached a new understanding of what I believe, and that this is a good thing for me, it is still painful.

I think that I lost my faith a while ago, but admitting that fact would have been too painful until right now. I am able to recognize that the cognitive dissonance has been hurting me for some time.

Sometimes we need to mourn the loss of even something which no longer serves our best interests.

That is understandable to me but maybe you could reach a point where you believe God still loves you as you are.
Cognitive dissonance exists and God cannot expect us to be what we are not, He should show us compassion and love because we are disabled.
I have gotten into a lot of trouble because of this because of triggers and saying what I thought about people because God loves those we perceive as difficult too and says we should love the difficult. I have found that difficult because of trauma and autism.
Well it is a trigger but I am like why are people not this and that and been let down by certain situations and struggled with social media and certain countries and their attributes

 

[chincey_james]

I confused my love of studying religion with the need to be religious. I spent many years trying to be a Theravada buddhist. In actuality, I am incapable of religiosity in the traditional sense. It wasn't a good fit. It gave me anxiety and made me too serious. Once I realized that I love studying religion, but not following a religion, it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulder. I totally understand if it's a sad feeling rather than a happy one though.

Nonetheless, I'm glad I did try to be religious because I have kept a lot of the Buddhist habits: meditating, practicing compassion, and not drinking alcohol. Even without a religion, I will keep the door open to the Unknown. I think life is inherently mysterious, and I personally find it more spiritual to respect the mystery by saying, "I don't know and no one else does either."

 

[Kavigant]

Strange, perhaps, but I think I've come full circle. Being away from my faith made me realize that I actually have faith. And returning to my church and its community helped me to realize how much of a connection with God I still have.
A couple of months ago, I found myself trying to force my faith into a box in which it didn't actually fit. And when that didn't work, it felt as though I had lost my faith.
Over the past couple of weeks, when I examined my "old" faith (instead of the faith I thought that I "should" follow), I found my faith was right there, waiting for me just as I had left it

 

[tazz]

religion just kind of suddenly became a non-issue for me in many ways

Yup, that's what happens when you explore it critically

I've just been reading this book, short and interesting:
https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-god-desire/david-baddiel/9780008550288
"David Baddiel would love there to be a God. He has spent a lot of time fantasising about how much better life would be if there actually was such a thing as a Superhero Dad who chased off Death.

Unfortunately for him, there isn't. Or at least, that is Baddiel's view in this book, which argues that it is indeed the very intensity of his, and everyone else's, desire for God to exist that proves His non-existence."

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

My father died, Mom married ‘Dad’. Old fashioned, he and his parents never pretended my brother and I were anything like family. He provided for his stepchildren, had nothing else. His parents spoke adoringly about how much Dad loved his children, meaning his own, no mercy. Dad very rarely spoke to his steps.

The greatest problem I had coming to God was that he is personal. A great looming authority figure in no way presented to me as loving or protective, only silently staring in disapproval. Somehow, God kept me on the line for many years as I worked through the enigma of a loving, caring, noticing God, that having God look at me was not dangerous.

What we see in our early years can be difficult to unlearn.

I always saw God as loving and caring.
But I always question why the bible was written.
I do myself fear the wrath of God, I do not know
I believe in rules and structure in society.
But also i think if you have a problem in life, you should pray and talk to God about it.
But however I do believe God is loving and caring and not a bully.
And autistics or people with adhd should literally do anything they want.
Except try not to he mean or commit crimes like murders and others if you can help it.
No one should limit a person with a disability or keep them under someone's thumb or let someone persistently abuse them or tell them they are not welcome in faith because they do not fit some box and should be punished for it.
Or expect a person to be a superhuman or something they are not.

 

[Streetwise]

I have spent the last thirty years devoting incredible amounts of time and energy to what I have recently come to understand as my main special interest: religion and comparative theology. However, my interest has been only partially academic; the bulk of my interest has been what I long considered my spiritual pilgrimage toward God and Truth.

Over the course of this massive chunk of my life, I have at various times considered myself an adherent of several different religions, at different times. One of those religions was Christianity, and I was even baptized into more than one denomination of that faith. But I have also considered myself, at different times, Buddhist, NeoPagan, Hindu, Satanism etc. I have never lied about my beliefs - during the time I spent in each faith, I sincerely thought that I believed its creed. And I have excelled within the context of each faith, even rising to clergy within NeoPaganism.

However, after a fairly intense summer of treatment and growth, I have found that it feels as if my entire interest in religion has just suddenly stopped. I didn’t become an atheist, it’s just that after thirty years, religion just kind of suddenly became a non-issue for me in many ways. This has been quite confusing, to say the least.

It seems like I should just be able to say what I believe and then look at the various religions to see which one(s) agree(s) with my own conscience. But I don’t know what I believe. I don’t even know whether or not I believe in God/gods.

It kind of seems as though it should just not be a big deal, but I seem to have a lot of trouble with ambiguity and uncertainty, and it’s really bothering me to feel that I do not know what I believe.

*** It would kind of break my heart if it turned out that my entire thirty-year long "spiritual quest" was actually just a compulsive effort to seek meaning and certainty in a potentially meaningless and uncaring universe. What if more than half of life has been dedicated to just another attempt to mask my weirdness and fit in with mainstream society? That would be really, really demoralizing; but I would be willing to make peace with that fact if I could just ascertain that that is what I really believe. ***

Religion not spirituality is in part dead works, humans are living, so won't like dead .
In your spirit search for the God you like, I like my God(JHVH)and the other parts of my God Yeshua,ruach ha kodesh. i've sort of realised! my autistic neurology, means i understand my way,not by written,spoken neurotypical language

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Once a wise person told me there were no answers; the challenge in life is to live the questions.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I have spent the last thirty years devoting incredible amounts of time and energy to what I have recently come to understand as my main special interest: religion and comparative theology. However, my interest has been only partially academic; the bulk of my interest has been what I long considered my spiritual pilgrimage toward God and Truth.

Over the course of this massive chunk of my life, I have at various times considered myself an adherent of several different religions, at different times. One of those religions was Christianity, and I was even baptized into more than one denomination of that faith. But I have also considered myself, at different times, Buddhist, NeoPagan, Hindu, Satanism etc. I have never lied about my beliefs - during the time I spent in each faith, I sincerely thought that I believed its creed. And I have excelled within the context of each faith, even rising to clergy within NeoPaganism.

However, after a fairly intense summer of treatment and growth, I have found that it feels as if my entire interest in religion has just suddenly stopped. I didn’t become an atheist, it’s just that after thirty years, religion just kind of suddenly became a non-issue for me in many ways. This has been quite confusing, to say the least.

It seems like I should just be able to say what I believe and then look at the various religions to see which one(s) agree(s) with my own conscience. But I don’t know what I believe. I don’t even know whether or not I believe in God/gods.

It kind of seems as though it should just not be a big deal, but I seem to have a lot of trouble with ambiguity and uncertainty, and it’s really bothering me to feel that I do not know what I believe.

*** It would kind of break my heart if it turned out that my entire thirty-year long "spiritual quest" was actually just a compulsive effort to seek meaning and certainty in a potentially meaningless and uncaring universe. What if more than half of life has been dedicated to just another attempt to mask my weirdness and fit in with mainstream society? That would be really, really demoralizing; but I would be willing to make peace with that fact if I could just ascertain that that is what I really believe. ***

To be honest I have spent a lot of my life on being a Christian and supporting a Christian faith but it has really disappointed me lately.
A lot of it is too hard to talk about but some of it is to do with Christian scripture and the bible and how a lot of Christians are very goody goody and sort of fit a mold.
I have really asked a lot of people about their beliefs lately or faith has come up and people have differing beliefs and views but I do not think it is right to support one sort of person and segregate another or make lower people feel discluded. I think it is not right to judge someone's beliefs too because maybe some non Christian people can be more open minded and I think more humble and also maybe it is a journey for some people.
Me myself I have had a lot of doubts with Christian faith about not fitting a box, some Christian views that are laid on my back especially how all the blame at the start of the bible is laid on a woman Eve. That is fairly misogynist if you ask me because some of the most evil world leaders and biggest dictators were men.
It just makes me think you know that it is a bit misogynist and prejudice that thr blame for the world's sin is laid on a woman.
Why? In a bid to make men feel superior?
I see men and women as equal just different.
I never saw woman as less in my whole life.
I always thought a woman could be as intelligent, talented, capable, strong maybe just in different ways and do things that men could.
Does not mean I think I am better than men
If I think this way does it anger men?
Do men have a secret misogynist side where they need to feel superior?
I could never limit myself or my talents as a woman. I would just want to do my best to be the best I could.
It is hard as an intelligent woman and never easy, it is not always easy in many ways.
I just think to myself is the amount of intelligent woman decreasing in terms of those that read and are just not afraid to be independent decreasing before of the digital age that people only care about devices now and forget to pick up books or learn or do hobbies. And woman that are compassionate?
Who are loving and caring towards others and not self absorbed and super vain and narcissists.
So this is not really faith driven but difficult to know really.
I think people in general have balanced views about God but I have struggled to feel like somehow God does not care or love me because I am too unwell and traumatised to focus on my inadequacy which I think Christian faith supports your inadequacy compared to God's greatness so you do not become prideful.
For me I do not want to focus on my inadequacy but my strengths especially with trauma and disabilities.
I think with trauma the worst thing you can do is focus on inadequacy. You need to focus on positive and uplifting things about yourself.
Because that is the only way to move forward from shame and blame.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Hi Kavigant
I hurt myself a lot over this stuff, because I am a Catholic of sorts (not the best sort.) I used the five proofs of God from the work of St Thomas Aquinas to prove the existence of God, but the problem is, I need an emotional connection with God, not just a logical connection. Too much of my faith/religious experience has been based in "Facts and Logic" and conservatism; I want to drop everything and run into the arms of God like a child to a father who actually cares about his sons--not go to God like some sort of freakish plaster-saint prancing prig who is Christian because it is "respectable." I've never been respectable, just odd.

That makes sense to me and so many people see it otherwise.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I think that, even though I have reached a new understanding of what I believe, and that this is a good thing for me, it is still painful.

I think that I lost my faith a while ago, but admitting that fact would have been too painful until right now. I am able to recognize that the cognitive dissonance has been hurting me for some time.

Sometimes we need to mourn the loss of even something which no longer serves our best interests.

I feel you
And it feels that way for me too
In more ways than one.
You should be able to be yourself in every way possible and God still love you.
And if you cannot then you will never be able change for faith or anything.
I also could only love a God who challenges at times but treats someone right and loves them for everything they are not just what bible scripture says.
That is what I would see God as.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I've spent thirty years and literally tens of thousands of dollars on books and hundreds of hours in churches, but I think that I am probably best described as Agnostic. Holy Crap. (so to speak)

God, I hate that. It's such an indeterminate belief, and I hate the state of indeterminacy.

Sometimes I kinda hate being bisexual because it feels as though I'm stuck in some kind of middle ground, never being straight enough for some and never being queer enough for others.

And I am afraid that being "high functioning" means that I will never be "autistic" enough for some folks yet never neurotypical enough to function healthily.

It feels as though it's my fate to be stuck in an uncomfortable middle ground.

Do I believe in the God I've met in my theological studies. No.
Do I believe that no God or Gods exist? Also no.
I do not know and will not be able to know in this lifetime.
How embarrassing to have had to figure this out in public. [insert embarrassed face]
I hate this.

Thank you to everyone who very patiently and thoughtfully replied to this thread. Sorry to have wasted your time.

Would you feel unwelcome by God or some churches or Christians for being bisexual?

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth. –Thoreau

Truth is important but so is God's love.
So therefore sometimes the truth will set you free but the most important thing is the love of God and His capacity to pull His children towards Him.
Because people can be fairly greedy, self seeking and self centred, ingrateful and self sufficient these days.
And do not seem to have any need to a higher power.
It is puzzling to me though how you coyod not considering humans cannot love the way God can.
So if you can get loved by people the way God loves you then I'm gobsmacked.
So I do not know how people can truly be satisfied without a relationship with God.

 

[NB79]

In my experience not only God exists,he can also be our friend and helps us. I have lots of experiences.
Have you tried asking Jesus something like: 'If you exist, i really want to know, give me something to make me believe more' ask with faith.

 

[Streetwise]

To be honest I have spent a lot of my life on being a Christian and supporting a Christian faith but it has really disappointed me lately.
A lot of it is too hard to talk about but some of it is to do with Christian scripture and the bible and how a lot of Christians are very goody goody and sort of fit a mold.
I have really asked a lot of people about their beliefs lately or faith has come up and people have differing beliefs and views but I do not think it is right to support one sort of person and segregate another or make lower people feel discluded. I think it is not right to judge someone's beliefs too because maybe some non Christian people can be more open minded and I think more humble and also maybe it is a journey for some people.
Me myself I have had a lot of doubts with Christian faith about not fitting a box, some Christian views that are laid on my back especially how all the blame at the start of the bible is laid on a woman Eve. That is fairly misogynist if you ask me because some of the most evil world leaders and biggest dictators were men.
It just makes me think you know that it is a bit misogynist and prejudice that thr blame for the world's sin is laid on a woman.
Why? In a bid to make men feel superior?
I see men and women as equal just different.
I never saw woman as less in my whole life.
I always thought a woman could be as intelligent, talented, capable, strong maybe just in different ways and do things that men could.
Does not mean I think I am better than men
If I think this way does it anger men?
Do men have a secret misogynist side where they need to feel superior?
I could never limit myself or my talents as a woman. I would just want to do my best to be the best I could.
It is hard as an intelligent woman and never easy, it is not always easy in many ways.
I just think to myself is the amount of intelligent woman decreasing in terms of those that read and are just not afraid to be independent decreasing before of the digital age that people only care about devices now and forget to pick up books or learn or do hobbies. And woman that are compassionate?
Who are loving and caring towards others and not self absorbed and super vain and narcissists.
So this is not really faith driven but difficult to know really.
I think people in general have balanced views about God but I have struggled to feel like somehow God does not care or love me because I am too unwell and traumatised to focus on my inadequacy which I think Christian faith supports your inadequacy compared to God's greatness so you do not become prideful.
For me I do not want to focus on my inadequacy but my strengths especially with trauma and disabilities.
I think with trauma the worst thing you can do is focus on inadequacy. You need to focus on positive and uplifting things about yourself.
Because that is the only way to move forward from shame and blame.

You obviously didnt read the prophet Yeremiah(Jeremiah) that says WOMEN(xx) and men(xy) will be equal

 

[Kavigant]

My own confusion (as discussed within my posts in this thread) has been resolved. I don't wish for this thread to turn into an argument or debate, so perhaps it would be best to close it?

Thank you to everyone who responded!