How do i stop arguing with people?

[rickxxxblaine]

My bf is like the girl you describe. He is quite sure of what is right even though there is sometimes evidence to the contrary. He thinks he's open-minded but I don't see him that way. Very rarely he will ponder something I've said an answer "maybe". These things me are more values-based than based on reason, though.

Yes, it's another thing I envy Nts for... They're 'connected' to their feelings. They don't always use their intellect. Some never do BTW...

 

[sisselcakes]

Yes, it's another thing I envy Nts for... They're 'connected' to their feelings. They don't always use their intellect. Some never do BTW...

Yes, I know this well!

Have you heard of James Robison (think that's his name)? He is an author and Aspie advocate. He underwent a treatment called transcranial magnetic stimulation which has been FDA approved for depression. I have hear that they have used it with autism but not sure if these are formal studies. So I heard him on NPR or some similar news program. He has undergone the treatment. He related that it helped him feel things he hadn't experienced before. He said he is glad to have the opportunity to feel empathy but it has been very painful for him - some of the realizations he came to, like people he had considered friends. He began to realize that over the years, they had been laughing at him and not with him. It was really heart-wrenching and fascinating.

 

[WereBear]

To be true, sometimes I wish I could live in a world full of convictions. This can give so much self-confidence. I personally think it's not a mark of intelligence. Intelligent people doubt all the time. Or it's only Aspergers, maybe ?

Certainty can be a damaging illusion. Cutting off feedback from the environment is the surest route to extinction

I think we can perseverate: think over and over, when it is not necessary. When we should have the confidence to decide, for ourselves at least, that we are acting on the best information and we're going with it; until new information comes in. This has helped me stop thinking and get to sleep, for example.

What I meant about denial is that I have what I think is an advantage over NTs who are used to telling themselves what they would like to believe and acting on it like it is actually true When I do not have much of a "denial ability." When something is a fact, I must believe it, act on it, and not hide from it.

But self-confident people are like walls, they're solid and can really have a lot of power over others.
I knew a girl like this. She was always 100% sure that what she was requiring or doing was legitimate even against all evidence. And most of the time, she obtained what she was aiming for. Really impressive.
I can't do that, and this lead me to work a lot... Even against my own interests

Confidence is attractive; people regard this as essential in leaders, for example. But not always wisely. This is also an ability of great con artists.

 

[WereBear]

Have you heard of James Robison (this that's his name)? He is an author and Aspie advocate. He underwent a treatment called transcranial magnetic stimulation which has been ADA approved for depression. I have hear that they have used it with autism but not sure if these are formal studies. So I heard him on NPR or some similar news program. He has undergone the treatment. He related that it helped him feel things he hadn't experienced before. He said he is glad to have the opportunity to feel empathy but it has been very painful for him - some of the realizations he came to, like people he had considered friends. He began to realize that over the years, they had been laughing at him and not with him. It was really heart-wrenching and fascinating.

I did hear about that, and it is fascinating.

To me this suggested that we have these capabilities; we might need ways of reaching them, that's all.

 

[Mia]

Hello my name is Aleksander and i have a very big problem. Everytime i go on the internet, i go to forums, youtube and all sorts of places where people comment and such and whenever i see a comment that is not correct in my eyes, i need to disprove it and that leads to them getting angry and we start arguing. I do not know how to stop myself. Ive been doing this for years now and i can't control it. Everytime i see someone saying something that totally misleads to what i belive, i feel like proving that what i think is correct and thats the only answer. Can anybody relate / help me on this? I don't want to argue with people but i just can't help myself

Hi @Alexander, I've been online for years and used to enjoy arguing as well. It depends on the 'nature' of the people one argues with, if both parties enjoy a good debate and it doesn't deteriorate into name-calling and character defamation. Which all to often happens online. Constructive argumentation serves a function in its practice, writing skills and quick thinking are among some of it's merits and its rather educational if you learn from it.

Yet if it's sole function for you is simply to prove yourself correct, then that is a difficult position. There are so many views that hold merit and few people have all the information they require for such a task. Seems as if there will be people who know more or understand a subject more thoroughly and in that way one can learn from them, and develop a broader perspective.

That is the purpose of argumentation, to learn, to understand, to disseminate, to change one's views when a more incisive one comes along. It's also a function of age, it's a learning process that leads to understanding people and ideas. It seems that many people at a certain age begin to need to prove themselves and some do it with sports, education, argumentation and developing verbal or writing skills. It's a growth process.

I'm at a point in my life that I have nothing to prove, so argumentation doesn't serve the same purpose for me. I don't necessarily have to argue for something I feel strongly about as my view is mine alone, and I have no need to convince others as much. Perhaps with time and a stepping back from arguments you may come to similar conclusions or not. Having the need to prove yourself is directly associated with your age, will, ideas and desires.

 

[BlueSkyGreenLeaf]

I used to get on the internet and jump into arguments until I heard the question, "Have you ever heard of someone changing their opinion as a result of losing an argument?"
And I couldn't think of anyone like that. So I stopped.

 

[Mia]

"Have you ever heard of someone changing their opinion as a result of losing an argument?"

I've known many people who have, with more information, it's a learning process.

 

[Suzanne]

I know this is an old post, but I am so like this and yes, I feel frustrated with myself!

I even feel myself getting hot with anger when someone disagrees with me, because to me, there is no need to disagree.

However, because I hate being at odds with others, I mostly refrain from what I say, because I know that it is just not going to do me much good.

 

[AveApollo]

I know this is an old post, but I am so like this and yes, I feel frustrated with myself!

I even feel myself getting hot with anger when someone disagrees with me, because to me, there is no need to disagree.

However, because I hate being at odds with others, I mostly refrain from what I say, because I know that it is just not going to do me much good.

I wish I could refrain. I feel the same hot with anger, but can't stop from correcting others. It never usually ends well. But it's like a compulsion. Plus, I feel almost guilty if I don't correct others. Like I am withholding information from them.
But it generally doesn't change their minds and some take my I information giving as an insult or attack!

So I'm going to try and develop the skill of resisting. How did you become able to keep yourself to yourself? Practice?

 

[WereBear]

So I'm going to try and develop the skill of resisting. How did you become able to keep yourself to yourself? Practice?

I have a mental trick to imagine I am in a bunker made of pretty stone and a thick glass window in a pretty color (because this is protection, not imprisonment.) The Pretty Bunker regulates itself.

When I am with someone trusted, the bunker fades and I interact with them freely. But if I am not really involved, the bunker becomes almost real. I don't have to involve myself with this external situation, like Someone Wrong on the Internet. So I do not.

 

[Suzanne]

I wish I could refrain. I feel the same hot with anger, but can't stop from correcting others. It never usually ends well. But it's like a compulsion. Plus, I feel almost guilty if I don't correct others. Like I am withholding information from them.
But it generally doesn't change their minds and some take my I information giving as an insult or attack!

So I'm going to try and develop the skill of resisting. How did you become able to keep yourself to yourself? Practice?

It is because people, like you say, do not wish to change their minds and I caught on to that fairly fast, but still flair people up, especially one person, who really does not like me having an opinion.

With the world in such much tormoil, I have opinions on women wearing their hibja ( think that is the wrong spelling). As far as I am concerned, I feel that they should lay low, since they reside in western culture, but I get arguments back that it is their right etc etc and feel myself getting hot with anger and a little voice says: back off Suzanne.

I hate being at odds with anyone and that helps me very much. But if one does not mind being the bad "guy" then that is a problem. Also my faith helps me so much. And it could have something to do with my age of 46.

 

[Suzanne]

I wish I could refrain. I feel the same hot with anger, but can't stop from correcting others. It never usually ends well. But it's like a compulsion. Plus, I feel almost guilty if I don't correct others. Like I am withholding information from them.
But it generally doesn't change their minds and some take my I information giving as an insult or attack!

So I'm going to try and develop the skill of resisting. How did you become able to keep yourself to yourself? Practice?

I am like you with health issues. Because I have fairly a lot going on with me, I do not just sit back and take what I am told to take; I rather find out how that part of my body works, but it shocks me that the average nt does just not care about that. They even say: well yes, I rather natural, but one should follow their dr! I immediately want to shout at them that are they stupid or something, but halt myself! I went to see a dr and she gave me something for anxiety, as I suffer horrendously. I asked about natural medicine and predictably, she said: well that is all well and good, but it often interferes with chemicals and she gave me one for anxiety, but the side effects are pretty nasty and my natural ones do not give me side effects and work fast and long; I just try to do without them, because I really want to strive for no medicine.

I am on a high fat and low carb diet and the weight is gently coming off me. I am not fat, but not thin. I see ones who are fat and tell them in an excited way about this diet and how the body works and get almost a: so what? Which incredably frustrates me. It is almost like they say: oh here she goes again, can we change the subject please?! My husband, sadly is a dreadful culprit who has even banned me from talking about it, yet is going to start a diet too. I just hate seeing that, when I know what it does to the body.

So like you, to hold back on this information, seems so wrong!

 

[sisselcakes]

I am like you with health issues. Because I have fairly a lot going on with me, I do not just sit back and take what I am told to take; I rather find out how that part of my body works, but it shocks me that the average nt does just not care about that. They even say: well yes, I rather natural, but one should follow their dr! I immediately want to shout at them that are they stupid or something, but halt myself! I went to see a dr and she gave me something for anxiety, as I suffer horrendously. I asked about natural medicine and predictably, she said: well that is all well and good, but it often interferes with chemicals and she gave me one for anxiety, but the side effects are pretty nasty and my natural ones do not give me side effects and work fast and long; I just try to do without them, because I really want to strive for no medicine.

I am on a high fat and low carb diet and the weight is gently coming off me. I am not fat, but not thin. I see ones who are fat and tell them in an excited way about this diet and how the body works and get almost a: so what? Which incredably frustrates me. It is almost like they say: oh here she goes again, can we change the subject please?! My husband, sadly is a dreadful culprit who has even banned me from talking about it, yet is going to start a diet too. I just hate seeing that, when I know what it does to the body.

So like you, to hold back on this information, seems so wrong!

Wow. Do you know my bf? LOL. You have described my situation to a tee and it's kind of cathartic to see it from your point of view.

My bf feels exactly like you do about health, diet, medications, etc. and he almost cannot help himself commenting about it. I also banned him from speaking about it. Well, I can't control what he says, but there are dire consequences for our relationship and it's really affected my mental well-being. It kind of "clicked" with him when I had to literally, logically explain that when he makes comments about food to me it breaks the connection I feel to him, that it makes my love for him die a little every time. That may sound harsh but it's the truth and nothing else I explained was getting through.

I'm certain he doesn't understand what I "hear' when he makes his comments. What I hear is: "you're fat" (I'm not), "I don't love you the way you are", "you're gross", "I'm not attracted to you", etc. When he has insisted on imparting his knowledge about food and health-related issues to me, I feel harassed and controlled. I feel like I'm not good enough the way I am. It's a terrible feeling. I'm worried we won't survive this. We are currently on the outs due to an incident yesterday.

I believe he also feels compelled to share what he believes is his superior and vast knowledge about the subject with me, which incidentally I don't believe everything he claims to know; and he drinks and occasionally smokes! He has told me in the past that he believes if he says things enough I'll eventually learn. What I've told him and he doesn't understand is people, including me, don't always do rational things. In fact, we are often irrational. If I go to McDonalds occasionally, lecturing me isn't going to help because that's not a rational decision. It's because I FEEL LIKE and WANT to eat a crappy hamburger.

I suppose in response to AveApollo, I would say that maybe understanding the effect it has on others and your relationships would help being able to control arguing with others. Of course, this may depend on with whom you are arguing. If it's an acquaintance, that may not be so important to someone.

So, here's the kicker. We are preparing to go on a trip to Germany and Prague in a week. I already told him I'm eating whatever I want and I don't want to hear it. I already, out of respect for his anxiety levels, curb some of my habits when I'm around him but I'm not going to change who I am because of this.

Thanks for sharing, Suzanne. I think it helps me understand a little better the dynamic that is happening between us. Still, sometimes understanding simply isn't enough because the behavior is driving me batty!

 

[sisselcakes]

Oh, one other comment. I believe practicing mindfulness may be helpful.

 

[Suzanne]

Wow. Do you know my bf? LOL. You have described my situation to a tee and it's kind of cathartic to see it from your point of view.

My bf feels exactly like you do about health, diet, medications, etc. and he almost cannot help himself commenting about it. I also banned him from speaking about it. Well, I can't control what he says, but there are dire consequences for our relationship and it's really affected my mental well-being. It kind of "clicked" with him when I had to literally, logically explain that when he makes comments about food to me it breaks the connection I feel to him, that it makes my love for him die a little every time. That may sound harsh but it's the truth and nothing else I explained was getting through.

I'm certain he doesn't understand what I "hear' when he makes his comments. What I hear is: "you're fat" (I'm not), "I don't love you the way you are", "you're gross", "I'm not attracted to you", etc. When he has insisted on imparting his knowledge about food and health-related issues to me, I feel harassed and controlled. I feel like I'm not good enough the way I am. It's a terrible feeling. I'm worried we won't survive this. We are currently on the outs due to an incident yesterday.

I believe he also feels compelled to share what he believes is his superior and vast knowledge about the subject with me, which incidentally I don't believe everything he claims to know; and he drinks and occasionally smokes! He has told me in the past that he believes if he says things enough I'll eventually learn. What I've told him and he doesn't understand is people, including me, don't always do rational things. In fact, we are often irrational. If I go to McDonalds occasionally, lecturing me isn't going to help because that's not a rational decision. It's because I FEEL LIKE and WANT to eat a crappy hamburger.

I suppose in response to AveApollo, I would say that maybe understanding the effect it has on others and your relationships would help being able to control arguing with others. Of course, this may depend on with whom you are arguing. If it's an acquaintance, that may not be so important to someone.

So, here's the kicker. We are preparing to go on a trip to Germany and Prague in a week. I already told him I'm eating whatever I want and I don't want to hear it. I already, out of respect for his anxiety levels, curb some of my habits when I'm around him but I'm not going to change who I am because of this.

Thanks for sharing, Suzanne. I think it helps me understand a little better the dynamic that is happening between us. Still, sometimes understanding simply isn't enough because the behavior is driving me batty!

It is my turn to say: wow! Because you are exactly like my husband and I thank you for the deep insight. As it happens, we are pretty clear verbally that we both need to lose tummy fat. He does, however like to say that I should love him no matter what! I disagree with that. If you fall in love with a slim person, is it fair to expect you to still love that person if they are overweight due to a bad lifestyle? Unlike your boyfriend, I have never smoked and do not drink alcohol, but I would feel wound up if someone was preaching to me and they were not so "pure" themselves.

My new regime means that putting fast food into my tummy actually makes me very sick. I tried to eat a bag of crisps, because I saw they were surprising low in carbs, but deeply regretted it, when I struggled with acid afterwards, which I felt my body was saying: no, no, what are you putting in me? You have been treating me so well and now, go and spoil it!

Actually we tend to eat for pleasure, rather than for the good it does to our bodies. If one is healthy anyway, then obviously they can keep eating what they like, but when one becomes unhealthly, I would have thought they would want to find the best thing to get better? But it appears I am wrong, which is really frustrating to me.

Anyway, I thank you for sharing what an nt feels in a non combatant way!

 

[Suzanne]

Wow. Do you know my bf? LOL. You have described my situation to a tee and it's kind of cathartic to see it from your point of view.

My bf feels exactly like you do about health, diet, medications, etc. and he almost cannot help himself commenting about it. I also banned him from speaking about it. Well, I can't control what he says, but there are dire consequences for our relationship and it's really affected my mental well-being. It kind of "clicked" with him when I had to literally, logically explain that when he makes comments about food to me it breaks the connection I feel to him, that it makes my love for him die a little every time. That may sound harsh but it's the truth and nothing else I explained was getting through.

I'm certain he doesn't understand what I "hear' when he makes his comments. What I hear is: "you're fat" (I'm not), "I don't love you the way you are", "you're gross", "I'm not attracted to you", etc. When he has insisted on imparting his knowledge about food and health-related issues to me, I feel harassed and controlled. I feel like I'm not good enough the way I am. It's a terrible feeling. I'm worried we won't survive this. We are currently on the outs due to an incident yesterday.

I believe he also feels compelled to share what he believes is his superior and vast knowledge about the subject with me, which incidentally I don't believe everything he claims to know; and he drinks and occasionally smokes! He has told me in the past that he believes if he says things enough I'll eventually learn. What I've told him and he doesn't understand is people, including me, don't always do rational things. In fact, we are often irrational. If I go to McDonalds occasionally, lecturing me isn't going to help because that's not a rational decision. It's because I FEEL LIKE and WANT to eat a crappy hamburger.

I suppose in response to AveApollo, I would say that maybe understanding the effect it has on others and your relationships would help being able to control arguing with others. Of course, this may depend on with whom you are arguing. If it's an acquaintance, that may not be so important to someone.

So, here's the kicker. We are preparing to go on a trip to Germany and Prague in a week. I already told him I'm eating whatever I want and I don't want to hear it. I already, out of respect for his anxiety levels, curb some of my habits when I'm around him but I'm not going to change who I am because of this.

Thanks for sharing, Suzanne. I think it helps me understand a little better the dynamic that is happening between us. Still, sometimes understanding simply isn't enough because the behavior is driving me batty!

That is the snag, because we see things in a rational way! However I am enjoying saying to my husband that if you tried the diet I am on, you can still drink wine, because it is nothing to do with calories, but low sugars. Opps I see I am at it again. I shall hush now for your sake.

 

[Suzanne]

When something is a fact, I must believe it, act on it, and not hide from it.

She raises her hand in confidence!

 

[sisselcakes]

You cracked me up about your husband saying "you should love me no matter what" because I almost went there with my bf when he made comments about my "rolls", but then I had to admit I wouldn't find him attractive if he gained 100 pounds. It's not superficial. It's just true. It would turn me off physically, and I would find it repulsive to see him killing himself slowly by eating crap. Yeah, my bf's poor logic (smoking and drinking while fixating on certain elements of health) is annoying! He also tends to dramatize things or make false equivalencies, such as comparing how he feels if I drink diet soda as to how I would feel if he used cocaine regularly. Yeah, I know diet soda is bad, but to compare it to cocaine? LOL. Even though it seems silly to me, it does give me insight into how deeply concerned he is. Even though I know most of his comments come from concern about my health, as a woman who has body image issues, it sounds like he is making comments on my desirability, as I mentioned above.

Sounds like you are on the right track! That's great you can listen to your body and it actually screams to you when there are foods you shouldn't be touching.

Good luck to you both! BTW, you'll probably get a kick out of this. Those explanations I gave above, about how I "hear" my bf's comments about health and how they make me feel - well, I put them in a spreadsheet, hoping that will make more sense to him. Ha ha. If I try to tell him verbally, it will probably escalate to him getting "annoyed" which is one of his favorite words.

Take care.

 

[AveApollo]

"I suppose in response to AveApollo, I would say that maybe understanding the effect it has on others and your relationships would help being able to control arguing with others."

I spent 20 years walking on eggshells around people, being careful of not criticising or contradicting when I know they are wrong in something, because it upsets them. Ultimately it would build up in me and result in a big argument. I found out I have Asperger's and that is why I tend to value facts above feelings (* do not interpret that and think that I am saying that I am a robot and don't care about emotion).

The argument happens because the other person does not want to accept fact, reason and truth. They call me argumentative because it contradicts their preconceived ideas, prejudices and insecurities. If that means keeping the peace and protecting their feelings, then I think it's a bad deal. I am suffering then, for their lack of reason and their emotion. If I let them carry on with their wrong views or misinformation, then it's surely worse for them in the long run?

I value truth and fact above niceties and keeping the peace. (If I don't know the truth or fact, I will say that I'm unsure).

If I care about the person and see them believing harmful misinformation, or I see them being prejudice or just lacking logical thought, then keeping quiet is not helping them nor me.

Its not about 'me being right.' If you care about them, you inform for their wellbeing.
Now, with strangers, I also like to correct them. If I over hear misinformation and know the correct thing, I will tell them.

Are you saying that I need to keep quiet in order to let other people feel content, even when they are wrongly believing malformation that can either 1) inconvenience them if they carry on with this wrong information; or 2) even be harmed by their own lack of insight, facts and reason on a particular matter?

Also: If I told someone "don't eat that often, because it's really high in saturated fat" I am NOT calling them fat! If they think I am saying that, then we are incompatible. I say things direct. I don't do double meanings. If I wanted to say the person is fat (I wouldn't use that word anyway), I will tell them they are overweight. Straight. I will not dance around the subject with hints. This is why I do not tolerate many people. You say one thing clearly to them and they attach other meanings or even put words in your mouth. Then they expect you to pick up on what they really mean when they dance around the subject.
- and this is probably a big difference between NT and Aspie thinking. I am not saying one is better than the other. But rarely do Aspies get acceptance from NTs for their approach, yet we are criticised, told we ruin relationships and are expected to bend always to NT's apparently.

 

[sisselcakes]

"I suppose in response to AveApollo, I would say that maybe understanding the effect it has on others and your relationships would help being able to control arguing with others."

I spent 20 years walking on eggshells around people, being careful of not criticising or contradicting when I know they are wrong in something, because it upsets them. Ultimately it would build up in me and result in a big argument. I found out I have Asperger's and that is why I tend to value facts above feelings (* do not interpret that and think that I am saying that I am a robot and don't care about emotion).

The argument happens because the other person does not want to accept fact, reason and truth. They call me argumentative because it contradicts their preconceived ideas, prejudices and insecurities. If that means keeping the peace and protecting their feelings, then I think it's a bad deal. I am suffering then, for their lack of reason and their emotion. If I let them carry on with their wrong views or misinformation, then it's surely worse for them in the long run?

I value truth and fact above niceties and keeping the peace. (If I don't know the truth or fact, I will say that I'm unsure).

If I care about the person and see them believing harmful misinformation, or I see them being prejudice or just lacking logical thought, then keeping quiet is not helping them nor me.

Its not about 'me being right.' If you care about them, you inform for their wellbeing.
Now, with strangers, I also like to correct them. If I over hear misinformation and know the correct thing, I will tell them.

Are you saying that I need to keep quiet in order to let other people feel content, even when they are wrongly believing malformation that can either 1) inconvenience them if they carry on with this wrong information; or 2) even be harmed by their own lack of insight, facts and reason on a particular matter?

Also: If I told someone "don't eat that often, because it's really high in saturated fat" I am NOT calling them fat! If they think I am saying that, then we are incompatible. I say things direct. I don't do double meanings. If I wanted to say the person is fat (I wouldn't use that word anyway), I will tell them they are overweight. Straight. I will not dance around the subject with hints. This is why I do not tolerate many people. You say one thing clearly to them and they attach other meanings or even put words in your mouth. Then they expect you to pick up on what they really mean when they dance around the subject.
- and this is probably a big difference between NT and Aspie thinking. I am not saying one is better than the other. But rarely do Aspies get acceptance from NTs for their approach, yet we are criticised, told we ruin relationships and are expected to bend always to NT's apparently.

Hi there!

I enjoyed your lengthy and in-depth response.

The saturated fat example isn't representative of the extreme nature of our conflict around food, health, and my body. I would not be offended if somebody pointed out that a certain food had saturated fat. They may be telling me out of concern for my health or because they believe I don't have that information. I actually would appreciate that.

It becomes a problem in the following circumstances:

1. It's brought up to you on multiple occasions
2. You already have a good understanding of diet and health, so it feels like an insult to your intelligence
3. The comment is coupled with the expectation you're going to change your behavior based on the statement they make
4. The person informing you actually gets angry if you don't take what they say as gospel truth
5. The person doesn't respect the fact that maybe you just don't care about eating saturated fat and feel harassed by constant reminders.
6. The person has commented you eat too many carbs, have rolls, etc. it's easy to make the assumption about fat under these circumstances

Your response is helpful in terms of helping me understand how somebody might perceive they are sharing information and knowledge they believe will benefit another.

I appreciate the idea of not dancing around an issue. Frankly, it can become quite tiring. When you think about it, being indirect is actually a manipulation in the attempt to be diplomatic. Thus is the NT world. But this is the world and norm I know. I'm quite adept at thriving in this world. It's the Aspie in my life that i struggle with. Sigh.