How do you feel about NTs?

[Bolletje]

Basically like a solar system. The sun has many planets orbiting around it in perfect harmony. As odd as it may look. It works.

I have no idea what you mean, but it sounds very poetic

 

[Suzanne]

I really do not like that article.

I put nt's make me feel uncomfortable and that is because they do not make sense to me, but expect me to make sense of them.

 

[Bella Pines]

I don't differentiate between N/T's and people with autism. Neither of these two groups stand out as being particularly disparate from one another.

So this is the missing piece to the puzzle.

It's not about trying to like "them" or accept "them" or having the right attitude toward "them". It's about not seeing a group as a "them" in the first place. So everyone who "doesn't care" or "doesn't think about it" has achieved the holy grail of acceptance.

By ignoring individuals and classifying a group of people, then danger is that this generalization then gets applied without further thought. The trend may have a basis in truth, but the judgement that extrapolation leads to is then dangerous.

I suppose classifying a group of people for the sake of understanding and to accomodate specific needs may have merit, but for judgement, then no. It's not "us and them", it's just a colourful array of us.

 

[wight]

So basically most of the people here whether they realize or not have become callous and cold. That's what I am reading behind the words.

You are misreading "behind the words. "

 

[Voxsh]

I work for a well known UK based autism charity as a specialist autism mentor at an English University, I spend my entire working life with other autistic people. My wonderful wife is NT, but other than my wife I rarely talk to them. I don't see the point, they don't understand me and I have almost no shared interests with them. I have never been happier.

 

[Chance]

After lots of thought on this, and reading lots of good information on both sides in this posts...
I'm kind of lost... I don't seem to fit within the specifics, but that may be a blessing in disguise.

NT's have in the past been very harmful to me. If it happened today people would be in prison. I still have trouble with connecting with some (many) NT's today, but that never means they are all bad.

(Diagnosed) ASD people are only approx. 1% of the worlds population... So, I cant expect the world to bend to my command, or too my not understanding. This is an NT based reality apparently and I, (as an ASD guy), need to understand that.

To say NT's are bad, etc... Its just not a truth I can digest. Just like saying all white people, or black people, or Native Americans, or Germans, or Jews, or Muslims, or Chinese, etc. are bad... Thats simply not true and mostly not true...

So the fact is, that there are truly great NT's out there... I don't think anyone can possibly deny that in a deep truth. They may be on a lesser scale, but they are there.

Just as I feel some people on the mid-upper Spectrum either choose to become dependent, or make some internal decision to not try and understand, when they have it in them to improve at some level. I know this as a truth because I was determined to overcome as much of ASD as possible and I made huge improvements. I am still improving, but that never means I will be "cured", or become an NT. Its two different worlds in the mechanics of how we think.

I'm a little gear head. I love cars, so an easy thing for me get is this through my weird way of thinking...
Right now in present day... GM has a 6.2 V8 (my favorite engine of all time)... Ford also has a 6.2 Litre V8. Both engines do the same thing, but they are not remotely the same, not one part will interchange. One is a small block, one is a big block. One is a over head cam engine, one is not... Yet both can get the job done well.

I could say I hate Ford... Why? Let Ford people do what they do. They do stuff different and do it well sometimes (I think?)... But I just go with what I love, and work on it being its best version.

So often I see things very differently... If we all had GM cars with 6.2 V8 it would be a very boring world. Just like if we were all ASD it would be a very messed up world... Its the diversity that makes us shine.
Its the contrast of this reality that lets us have feelings to understand who we are, and who we are not.

So in the end, I don't think its about grouping people by labels... Labels are at times needed to understand a persons position, limitations, characteristics, etc... but thats about it.

So maybe our only hope is to become the very best version of what we can be, and be understanding to those who choose not too. I can piss and moan, and speculate until hell freezes over, but in truth...

The best version of me all I have that I can use to control my mindset... To not let me fall into these pits that separate us by labels. We are here to be the best we can be, and we trip (or people can trip us), and we get hurt. Its human nature... But its also human nature to forgive, and let others live as they decide. : )

 

[Voxsh]

There is much truth in the post above, I don't feel anything about them one way or another in the way the OP advocates, I just prefer to avoid them.

 

[Kari_Cookie]

I’m NT(based on test). I can’t speak for others, but I guess I can talk about myself, in case someone might be interested in hearing. I have depression disorder, not very bad that i want to kill myself, but it gives me a hard time; lack of secure, low self-esteem, empathic, self-blaming, etc.

I think everyone is unique and independent person. We meet people and connect with people "by accident”. Those accidents sometimes brought me good relationships, sometimes not. I think human brain isn’t function enough to handle complicated situations. So making rough conclusions are just easier ways to give solutions of things I might not want to spend more time on thinking “is there any other reasons for that?"

Understanding each other is hard, because language is our limit, we can’t understand things we can’t describe. The most important thing for me right now, is to respect the difference between people. Respect different personality: we can try to understand each other, but maybe in the way both of us would like.

 

[Voltaic]

I havnt read most of the thread to be honest, so I might be echoing points already made.

A lot of NT's communication is unspoken. Through body language, and alternative meanings of things they say. So much is based of of subcomunication, and being illiterate has drawbacks.

Even for NT's a slip up in subcomunication or 'not getting the message' can be a problem, especially for relationships.

A lot of problems and displeasure are expressed through sub subcomunication. And are generally taboo to express directly, and reserved for only once it is needed to be said, not when it would be most efficient to express the problem directly.

This sets up a place where the only way I can vocalize my problems, is considered taboo. Hitting the problem head on with a literal expression of problems instead of relegating them until they need to be solved is considered to up front.

When I say something, I mean exactly what I say and nothing more. Context is taken into account to lighten the word count when I can, but generally there is no alterior expression outside of the literal interpretation. When NT's talk, sometimes their expressions are layered with meaning, based on context spanning maybe even years back. A simple phrase might have a huge deeper meaning, and I would miss it completely.

The problem is, language has evolved to be efficient, and likewise, the people who use it. By instead of spelling out every word for on surface meaning, it is faster and more easier to express a completely different meaning, or multiple meanings in the same expression.

Miscomunication is not just a problem for ones on the spectrum. The vastness of ways one can express their emotions without direct dialog can be lost onto everyone. A more literal dialog can be helpful to pretty much everyone, instead of trying to trying to express complicated emotions through indirect communication that is already complicated.

I want to hit problems head on. I want to have on surface dialog, where every meaning is expressed literally through words. I don't want to be held back by taboo. I want to delve into or darkest fears and biggest problems, too be able to talk and figure things out. If you are mad at me, tell me. I would rather know why than to try to guess why, if I do even pick up that you might be mad. If I have done something wrong, tell me so I can fix it. If you are sad, tell me so I can help you feel better. And so on.

Of course, not everyone is like this, but there seems to be a general steer towards this tendency. Open dialog is key to solving not just personal or interelationship problems, but most problems of the world. We need to talk more, and have more empathy towards who you are talking to. Maybe then, we would wield the fundamental tool of speach more efficiently and be able to create a better future for yourself and humanity as a whole.

 

[clg114]

@Nitro It's not that easy when you are surrounded by NTs who are actively working toward destroying your life. Personally I plan to spend the rest of my life staying away from them as nothing good has ever happened to me through interactions with them.

You are talking about the vast majority of the people on the planet. In order to succeed in life , you have to deal with them. If you believe that you are surrounded by people ( NT or ND ) who are trying to destroy you, then stay way from them. Hone your skills until you can do things that others can not do. Then people will seek you out for what you can do for them instead of trying to destroy you.

 

[dragoncat16]

I have read several entries of the blog that is referenced in the first post in this thread.

As for the description of neurotypicals in comparison with someone on the spectrum (specifically, the author himself), I think it's mostly accurate, sometimes going a bit far and sometimes not far enough. For example, and this is a huge digression, I don't think that people should be criticising or belittling others for their religious beliefs or non-beliefs, since there is really no solid proof either way (and I make that statement as an astrophysicist, so if there were such proof, I would be one of the first to know). But anyway, back to my point...

In several posts, especially Throw Away the Master’s Tools: Liberating Ourselves from the Pathology Paradigm he points out that "neurotypical" is a much better word than "normal". While I do agree in principal that comparing a group of people with "normal" people implies a pathology, a disease, or the attitude that there is "Something Wrong With You", I think that the word neurotypical still gives that implication. Doesn't "typical" basically mean "normal", after all? Check out thesaurus.com and look up the word "typical" and the word "normal" is right there in the list.

Therefore, I propose a new word: neuromajority, instead of neurotypical. The group of people we presently call neurotypicals occupies a majority of approximately 90% of the human population, so the word neuromajority is mathematically accurate without implying any kind of superiority or inferiority in either group. I can think of a few other possibilities, such as neuromundane, neuroaverage, neuromediocre, neuro-ordinary, neurocommon, and neurovanilla, but those are just meant for entertainment purposes.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and when I read Nick Walker's blog (linked above) it really resonated with me. Autism, in itself, is not a disability, and it is a shame that the only way people on the spectrum can be given protection from discrimination and harassment is to have it classified as such, which is discrimination by definition. If everyone were on the spectrum, the social "deficits" that are supposedly associated with it would simply not exist, because those deficits are only defined because of the unreasonably negative way in which neurotypicals react to them.

Autism is characterised physically as a higher density of brain material and a higher number of interconnections than in the brains in the majority of human beings. Saying that people with brains like that are disabled is like saying that the computer I am typing this post on, with its multiple GHz processors, fast wifi, and over a terabyte of storage, is inferior to the one I had in the 90s, with a single 33 MHz processor, 56k modem, and a few megabytes of storage (ok, so maybe the analogy isn't exactly proportional). Savants (those with mental talents far above the average human level) belong exclusively or nearly exclusively to the autism spectrum. Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, along with a huge number of other geniuses who have shaped the growth of human scientific knowledge, are thought to have been on the spectrum. How can people like that be considered disabled? Complared to them, it is neurotypicals who are disabled.

So, anyway, what do you guys think about the word neuromajority instead of neurotypical?

 

[dragoncat16]

You are talking about the vast majority of the people on the planet. In order to succeed in life , you have to deal with them. If you believe that you are surrounded by people ( NT or ND ) who are trying to destroy you, then stay way from them. Hone your skills until you can do things that others can not do. Then people will seek you out for what you can do for them instead of trying to destroy you.

It is difficult to stay away from colleagues with whom you are compelled to work. I can do things others cannot do (one example is to program a remote robotic telescope to operate completely autonomously - none of my colleagues -or any but the world's most skilled programmers - could do that, which is why I had to do it). The fact that I could do things they couldn't do was why they had me do not only my own job but, in a lot of instances, their jobs as well, and then when they were done with me, and they had stolen all the work from me that they could, and I had become ill from all the extra hours I was forced to work, they threw me out like a dirty piece of trash (oh, but kept my work and continue to use it, of course). This happened to me twice. Yet you really think I have a chance to succeed if I put myself in that situation again? Isn't that the very definition of insanity?

 

[Voltaic]

I have read several entries of the blog that is referenced in the first post in this thread.

As for the description of neurotypicals in comparison with someone on the spectrum (specifically, the author himself), I think it's mostly accurate, sometimes going a bit far and sometimes not far enough. For example, and this is a huge digression, I don't think that people should be criticising or belittling others for their religious beliefs or non-beliefs, since there is really no solid proof either way (and I make that statement as an astrophysicist, so if there were such proof, I would be one of the first to know). But anyway, back to my point...

In several posts, especially Throw Away the Master’s Tools: Liberating Ourselves from the Pathology Paradigm he points out that "neurotypical" is a much better word than "normal". While I do agree in principal that comparing a group of people with "normal" people implies a pathology, a disease, or the attitude that there is "Something Wrong With You", I think that the word neurotypical still gives that implication. Doesn't "typical" basically mean "normal", after all? Check out thesaurus.com and look up the word "typical" and the word "normal" is right there in the list.

Therefore, I propose a new word: neuromajority, instead of neurotypical. The group of people we presently call neurotypicals occupies a majority of approximately 90% of the human population, so the word neuromajority is mathematically accurate without implying any kind of superiority or inferiority in either group. I can think of a few other possibilities, such as neuromundane, neuroaverage, neuromediocre, neuro-ordinary, neurocommon, and neurovanilla, but those are just meant for entertainment purposes.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and when I read Nick Walker's blog (linked above) it really resonated with me. Autism, in itself, is not a disability, and it is a shame that the only way people on the spectrum can be given protection from discrimination and harassment is to have it classified as such, which is discrimination by definition. If everyone were on the spectrum, the social "deficits" that are supposedly associated with it would simply not exist, because those deficits are only defined because of the unreasonably negative way in which neurotypicals react to them.

Autism is characterised physically as a higher density of brain material and a higher number of interconnections than in the brains in the majority of human beings. Saying that people with brains like that are disabled is like saying that the computer I am typing this post on, with its multiple GHz processors, fast wifi, and over a terabyte of storage, is inferior to the one I had in the 90s, with a single 33 MHz processor, 56k modem, and a few megabytes of storage (ok, so maybe the analogy isn't exactly proportional). Savants (those with mental talents far above the average human level) belong exclusively or nearly exclusively to the autism spectrum. Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, along with a huge number of other geniuses who have shaped the growth of human scientific knowledge, are thought to have been on the spectrum. How can people like that be considered disabled? Complared to them, it is neurotypicals who are disabled.

So, anyway, what do you guys think about the word neuromajority instead of neurotypical?

Kind of like linux vs windows. They are just different operating systems.

We live in a world of NTs. There for, their way is the 'right way' If or if not we deffine the spectrum as a disorder, the majority of people we meet and interact with are neuromajority, so we have to adapt in order to 'fit In' at least enough to be likeable to have around at best. The excuse of 'I'm on the spectrum' may hold in cirtain circumstances, but as an excuse in a relationship doesn't make you any more likeable, now they only understand why they don't want to be around you. This is all general talk in bad scenarios but it brings up a point. Everyone wants to be around people they like. On average, people like those who are not so different from themself. If or if not there is a label, excuse, personality type, or however you would like to describe the spectrum, it doesn't change the why someone would not like you. In order for us to be likeable, we have to emulate enough nt characteristic to seem relatable, and likewise enough in order to fit in.

And acceptance is a double hitter for me. I don't want to be accepted into a relationship just on the terms of being an aspie. I want them to like me based on my personality. I don't want special treatment. 'Special' is just codeword for different. All I want to do is to be treated normal like everyone else. If they don't like me, fine. They don't like me, not my aspergers. To ask someone to like me on my aspergers despite, is just another way I am not normal. I want to be held to the standards of others. Everyone has areas of difficulty, they and the people around them adapt, we are no different.

 

[clg114]

It is difficult to stay away from colleagues with whom you are compelled to work. I can do things others cannot do (one example is to program a remote robotic telescope to operate completely autonomously - none of my colleagues -or any but the world's most skilled programmers - could do that, which is why I had to do it). The fact that I could do things they couldn't do was why they had me do not only my own job but, in a lot of instances, their jobs as well, and then when they were done with me, and they had stolen all the work from me that they could, and I had become ill from all the extra hours I was forced to work, they threw me out like a dirty piece of trash (oh, but kept my work and continue to use it, of course). This happened to me twice. Yet you really think I have a chance to succeed if I put myself in that situation again? Isn't that the very definition of insanity?

Do you really think that you can succeed if you do nothing? Of course not. I do not know what your circumstances are, but it looks to me like people are taking advantage of you. Do not let people take advantage of you! With your skills, you should be dictating your work options. If you can not, take your skills elsewhere. Whenever you can do things that others can not, people should be seeking you out. To tell the truth, I wish I had your programing skills. Good luck.

 

[WildCat]

Considering that I was raised in a house full of them, I think the term has no place in my vernacular. "People" sounds like a better term to use, which is sort of the goal I've been shooting for in the first place - to be a "person", not a label or group.

I don't think divisiveness gets anyone much of anywhere in life. Understanding how others tick and operate, now that's the key right there.

 

[Judge]

Some will attempt to understand neurodiversity and succeed. Some will attempt and fail. And others may be indifferent to those on the spectrum and simply insist that we think as they do.

So yes, it ultimately depends on the individual rather than the group as to how they may or may not individually relate to me or anyone else on the spectrum of autism.

 

[The Midge]

Nuro-typicalism is a spectrum condition which varies from completely evil/ ignorant to angelic/ understanding.

NT people are just people. Interesting but hard to understand for me.

To follow the rule: do as you would be done by. Then I must expect to make an effort to understand and be angelic, because that is how I would like to be treated. It is a simple rule but difficult to implement successfully.

 

[Voxsh]

Neurological imperialists sums up the vast majority of the predominant neurotype in my experience

 

[Mathalamus]

i think the NT's are the masters of this world, and it shows. they are the ones who run everything. they are the ones who dictate our fate. sort of. if they invented a cure for autism, i would not be surprised if the worst of us aspies and auties (ones who cannot be independent) are "strongly encouraged" to get it cured, all for a more productive society. and, to be honest, id be first in line.

 

[Ming of Mongo]

If there wasn't truly an us-and-them situation, there wouldn't be a forum like this. It doesn't have to be adversarial, but it's there.

I've learned to pass for NT almost flawlessly, but I wouldn't want to be one. There is a level of shallowness in all but a few of them that I just couldn't imagine living through. It really comes out when they think you are one of them.

Imagine constantly, all day every day, thinking about where you fit in the social hierarchies. Who is above and below you. How you measure up. Who is a threat. All day long.

That is what NTs do instead of deeply focusing on anything else. It is so ubiquitous that they don't always know they are doing it, but it comes out in everything they do and say.

I just couldn't live that way. It's tiring enough just to fake it.