How do you know if you're a clinical narcissist?

[Qoyote]

I look at some of the things I feel and fantasize about, and I think they can't be normal. I read articles on covert narcissism and mostly, they sound just like me. I absolutely cannot take criticism from anyone I don't know. Everyone says I have a "big heart" but that's one part knowing how humble I need to pretend to be so people don't bother me about it, and one part viewing the entire world as mine and trying to fix the wrongness on "my property". It's like mowing the lawn or pulling up weeds.

But at the same time, so many people act just like me and a lot of people act worse. People who act like their entire country belongs to them and want to punish anyone who doesn't match their extremely narrow set of values. People who go around on social media, proclaiming their judgements from on high, talking like they're going to censure world leaders when they're just like the rest of us. People who clearly have a few hundred people they want to kill, but they pretend like they're pacifists just because they never got the chance. Others I can't think about right now.

Am I actually normal and other people just won't admit it?

 

[Slime_Punk]

I could be very wrong, but it seems like a lot of the loudest people on social media do possess quite a large number of narcissistic traits. Sometimes I wonder if social media (mostly places like Facebook and Twitter for some reason) aren't just really solid amplifiers for people who already have some of that going on.

But to be honest, I think the world needs a certain amount of narcissists (or, those with narcissistic traits) and possibly even sociopaths in order to function correctly, so I don't always see those as a complete negative. Our temperament can be a strength or a weakness depending on how we use it.

(I do think the hypothetical number 100 is fairly high, though. Mine always sits right at zero.)

IMHO the best way to find out, if you really want to know, is to ask a professional who specializes in it point-blank. If they're trained to spot it and they know you want the truth, they're not going to lie to you.

 

[trustinnerwisdom]

I look at some of the things I feel and fantasize about, and I think they can't be normal. I read articles on covert narcissism and mostly, they sound just like me. I absolutely cannot take criticism from anyone I don't know. Everyone says I have a "big heart" but that's one part knowing how humble I need to pretend to be so people don't bother me about it, and one part viewing the entire world as mine and trying to fix the wrongness on "my property". It's like mowing the lawn or pulling up weeds.

But at the same time, so many people act just like me and a lot of people act worse. People who act like their entire country belongs to them and want to punish anyone who doesn't match their extremely narrow set of values. People who go around on social media, proclaiming their judgements from on high, talking like they're going to censure world leaders when they're just like the rest of us. People who clearly have a few hundred people they want to kill, but they pretend like they're pacifists just because they never got the chance. Others I can't think about right now.

Am I actually normal and other people just won't admit it?

There are many diagnoses out there, like avoidant personal disorder or CPTSD which also are connected to criticism.

And I have never seen narcissistic people (or other related) being mention so many times as in this forum. Maybe a trendy, simple word to solve the issue as impossible to solve?
I know that if you are diagnosed as an empath or highly sensitive personality, there is a higher chance to meet people who are/feels narcissistic. I presume it must be the same with some other diagnoses too.

 

[Luca]

I agree with AngelWitch that if you truly believe this is the case, you should speak to a professional.

But I also agree with trustinnerwisdom that there are a number of disorders that can cause one to be deeply hurt by criticism (CPTSD, BPD, anxiety, any type of trauma disorder, and, well... even autism)

I think a lot of autistic people probably question if we are narcissists or have narcissistic tendencies because it's something a lot of us have likely been accused of at some point (see any number of other threads on this topic on here.) We tend to talk a lot about ourselves and our interests, can struggle with seeing things from another perspective, sometimes don't seem empathetic (even if we actually are), and can appear very self-serving and arrogant. A lot of people find autistic people very unpleasant for these reasons alone, we don't have to be narcissists too lol

Autistic people are also often easy victims for people who genuinely have narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies. I could write a whole autobiography of all of my accounts of dealing with genuine narcissists and/or sociopaths (in my therapist's opinion) like my mother, my cousin, some of my ex-friends, and a long list of other abusers.
Which, ironically, traumatized me to the point that now I also struggle with judgment or criticism, because it was used to abuse and bully me. This is a work in progress in therapy.

Something helpful my therapist said to me once about a similar issue is "If you are actually a bad person, you probably wouldn't be sitting there thinking 'Am I a bad person?' and feeling guilty and remorseful about it, nor would you want to get help and change it."
One of the hallmarks of both sociopaths and narcissists is being NOT remorseful, and even thriving on the chaos and drama they cause in other people's lives.

And social media brings out the absolute worst in humanity, that's why I don't use it anymore. Now I get vicariously offended through seeing what my friends have to deal with in toxic cesspools like Twitter and Tiktok. I'm always shocked by how mean and cruel the comments are on all social media sites, and how noticeable the overall lack of empathy and respect is. It's appalling, and it's getting worse.
I know ditching social media is way easier said than done for most people, but if it's really making you question yourself as a person, and making you so angry at other people, maybe it isn't a positive force in your life.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

For the most part, people suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder and psychopaths don't tend to self-diagnose. I don't really see anything in your post indicating something other than overthinking and ragging on yourself. Allowing yourself to be selfish (which I don't think is necessarily harmful) is not the same as suffering from a personality disorder.

 

[Misty Avich]

I often worry that I'm a narcissist. Often in conversations I say my experience (for example, if someone said "my baby has learnt to walk today", I might say "aw that's great, I first learnt to walk at ____"). I'm not sure if this is normal or not to do in conversations. I do see others doing it sometimes but I don't always take a lot of notice. I just like people to know me, if that makes sense.

 

[Luca]

I often worry that I'm a narcissist. Often in conversations I say my experience (for example, if someone said "my baby has learnt to walk today", I might say "aw that's great, I first learnt to walk at ____"). I'm not sure if this is normal or not to do in conversations. I do see others doing it sometimes but I don't always take a lot of notice. I just like people to know me, if that makes sense.

Not a narcissistic tendency per se, but 100% an autistic tendency! Almost all of us do it...
This is just a simple way to relate to the world. It's not just you.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't talk about myself as much as some people do though. I just habitually bring my experience into conversations. I worry that others think I'm a self-obsessed narcissist.

I think I've dealt with a narcissist before. She was very fake, as in would go the extra mile to be friendly to people but would slag them down the minute their back was turned. She often made up lies, and was always very smug about guys liking her (even though she was in her 60s). I started to notice her true colours and saw right through her lies, and as soon as she knew that she didn't want to speak to me any more. But she'd lure elderly ladies to her and they all thought she was so sweet and kind. I felt like telling them that it's all false and that she probably makes fun of them behind their backs, but I didn't.

I'm nowhere near like that.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

This is probably the most comprehensive discussion explaining the specific differences between the "apparent" overlap between narcissism and autism. To the untrained eye, there may be similar behaviors, in some cases, but the intellectual drivers are quite different. One is NOT the other.

 

[Magna]

I think an unofficial rule of thumb for narcissism is that if someone is worried that they might be one...they're likely not because narcissists reject any notion that they're narcissists. I've heard the same general rule of thumb goes for psychopathy; if someone is worried that they might be a psychopath, they're likely not one.

I grew up/lived with someone for 18 years who I'm certain has NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). A few traits that stand out in my experience:

> The world revolves around them in some fashion. Always.

> They are expert manipulators.

> They have "photographic" memories in relation to what you say to them. They can and will remember something you said to them years prior and bring it up when it benefits them. They are like a video recorder.

> The world and the people in it, even their loved ones are for their benefit.

> First and foremost, they process anything in relation to how it may or may not benefit them.

> When they do have to do something selflessly for someone else, even if it's no big deal...it's a huge ordeal for them.

> They are absolute professionals in being determined to win any argument, discussion, disagreement and to have the "last word". They can't handle if/when a person isn't affected by them.

> They do need near constant attention and validation (aka "narcissistic supply") from people. As such, if it's clear to a narcissist that a person won't provide them with attention and validation, those people are often quickly and callously discarded. Their "friends" and acquaintances are people they can manipulate. They have no need and no time for people they can't manipulate. In real life as well as on social media and in online forums, narcissistic supply can sometimes be evident if an individual has a large number of people who are "yes-men", lick-spittles, gushingly positive and encouraging at everything the person does, posts about, etc.

>"Flying Monkeys" (A referenced used in relation to narcissism and taken from the The Wizard of Oz): Narcissists can use other people (often unsuspecting) to not only do their bidding but also us other people in relation to character assassination of someone who doesn't play by their rules. The narcissist does "damage control" by maligning the non-compliant person to other people or...uses others as go-betweens or messengers (ie "flying monkeys") to the non-compliant person, attempting to turn the person from non-compliant to compliant

> They often craft a "victim" persona in order to draw as many people as possible to them for the attention, validation and support that they want.

> They are actually very insecure about themselves and as such, if there's a situation that makes their insecurity, lack of ability or failure obvious to others, they can exhibit narcissistic rage.

> According to a therapist I had, narcissists almost never seek counseling for being a narcissist and if the narc is aware of being a narcissist (ie through therapy for something else), they very rarely stay in counseling for long. In other words, it's extremely rare for a narcissist to change.

 

[Misty Avich]

I think it's because I was called a narcissist on another autism forum and I panicked. The traits given in the post above don't describe me but I have unintentionally appeared narcissistic sometimes on the other autism forum. Perhaps our internet personas can be different to how we are offline?

 

[WildCat]

Not saying this to be a smart alec in any way, but I think the answer lies in your question, the "clinical" part of "clinical narcissist". I'd think it would take a psychological assessment and some probing into your past by a professional to figure it out. That also means spending money and going through the hassle of the entire process, which I think those here who got professionally diagnosed with ASD would know a thing or two about.

I'd imagine someone with actual clinical narcissism wouldn't be very interested in doing this, or may even try to take on the role of psychologist themselves and decide that they're really not that big of a problem. Only a guess though, as I've not had any experiences that I know of with narcissistic people. Self-absorbed people whose issues have nothing to do with narcissism? Yes, but nobody I know of who I'd think would fit into the spectrum of actual narcissistic behavior.

 

[Dagan]

I'm still trying to process a relationship ended with a narcissistic woman. It messed me up. I realize more and more each day how much I need to still heal. You all here are who I really only talk to the most lately...besides a therapist or my kids, of course.

Everything was fine until it just wasn't. Criticism, mocking, belittling, doubting and questioning everything I said, did or even thought was how it started...slow and just built up faster and more. The climax of it was my finally getting upset at the treatment and voicing it. Well, apparently I'm not allowed to even be upset. I was blamed for everything she could think of. I was blamed for what she doesn't have or have better. I was given demands and ultimatums. She tried to claim and make me believe that what she was doing to me...that I was actually doing to her...!!?? It was a two month long, never-ending, 24/7 rage against me just trying to not deal with her attacking me on every platform available...telling others we both know that I am horrible...claiming faults, flaws, failures and so on. All the while, claiming she is the victim. All the while, ending every block of circle conversations with herself, basically, resulting in "what about me?" Her reality is one where she is what matters most and what everyone and everything should benefit. It has been chaos in my brain. There's just now any actual silence...just now, finally "no-contact" to where I can finally calm down and truly process it all and think straight. I was given hypertension medicine, even.

I don't think you are a narcissist because you have given no reason to think you'd do these kinds of things to people and make them miserable and actually unhealthy.

 

[Aspychata]

If you truly believe you are a narcissist and it doesn't make you feel anything, then yes, you might be that. If you aren't a narcissist, you would feel bad about being classifed as one and would decide to change your behavior. A true narcissist isn't going to truly care what you call them. No judgement here. Please don't take this as me saying you are or aren't. Sometimes l have a hard time trying to decipher, how much can l be out for myself, and is this acceptable or not? The will to survive over everything else is a strange alter ego.

 

[Magna]

A true narcissist isn't going to truly care what you call them.

Or, perhaps they would care but they would go into "damage control" mode and justify, explain away, deflect from their actions and attempt to convince whomever that they were not a narcissist up to and including accusing you of the same. Narcissists are deep down very insecure people and tend to care very much what people think of them. For example, a person who is disinterested and not impressed by the narcissist at all is madly frustrating to the narcissist. From my understanding in contrast, a psychopath literally doesn't care what others think of them.

 

[Aspychata]

 

[Rodafina]

It is not nearly as commonly diagnosed as it is discussed.

Approximately 0.5% of the United States population, or one 1 in 200 people, has the disorder. There are significant gender differences when it comes to the prevalence of the disorder; about 75% of people with narcissistic personality disorder are men.

The prevalence of narcissistic personality disorder is higher in certain demographics, including:

• 2–6% of those seeking help from mental health clinics
• 6% of forensic analysts
• 20% of people in the military
• 17% of first-year medical students

Usually, narcissistic personality disorder first appears in early adulthood. It is not more common in any ethnicities than others.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/npd-statistics/

 

[Misty Avich]

So if you said to a narcissist that they're a narcissist, how might they respond compared to saying that to a person who isn't a narcissist?

 

[TBRS1]

Do you have flying monkeys?

Flying monkeys are people you manipulate into doing crappy things, or saying crappy things to (or about) victims you select.

If you don't have them, you're not the wicked narcissistic witch.

 

[trustinnerwisdom]

I agree with AngelWitch that if you truly believe this is the case, you should speak to a professional.

But I also agree with trustinnerwisdom that there are a number of disorders that can cause one to be deeply hurt by criticism (CPTSD, BPD, anxiety, any type of trauma disorder, and, well... even autism)

I think a lot of autistic people probably question if we are narcissists or have narcissistic tendencies because it's something a lot of us have likely been accused of at some point (see any number of other threads on this topic on here.) We tend to talk a lot about ourselves and our interests, can struggle with seeing things from another perspective, sometimes don't seem empathetic (even if we actually are), and can appear very self-serving and arrogant. A lot of people find autistic people very unpleasant for these reasons alone, we don't have to be narcissists too lol

Autistic people are also often easy victims for people who genuinely have narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies. I could write a whole autobiography of all of my accounts of dealing with genuine narcissists and/or sociopaths (in my therapist's opinion) like my mother, my cousin, some of my ex-friends, and a long list of other abusers.
Which, ironically, traumatized me to the point that now I also struggle with judgment or criticism, because it was used to abuse and bully me. This is a work in progress in therapy.

Something helpful my therapist said to me once about a similar issue is "If you are actually a bad person, you probably wouldn't be sitting there thinking 'Am I a bad person?' and feeling guilty and remorseful about it, nor would you want to get help and change it."
One of the hallmarks of both sociopaths and narcissists is being NOT remorseful, and even thriving on the chaos and drama they cause in other people's lives.

And social media brings out the absolute worst in humanity, that's why I don't use it anymore. Now I get vicariously offended through seeing what my friends have to deal with in toxic cesspools like Twitter and Tiktok. I'm always shocked by how mean and cruel the comments are on all social media sites, and how noticeable the overall lack of empathy and respect is. It's appalling, and it's getting worse.
I know ditching social media is way easier said than done for most people, but if it's really making you question yourself as a person, and making you so angry at other people, maybe it isn't a positive force in your life.

Of course, one should speak to a professional!
And the best is to have a translator in such situations, a person who knows when to take you out from the situation and who can translate what’s going on inside of you.
But honestly, be careful, because if your inner alarms go off when you meet a professional, then it is time to say: Thank you and proudly walk away.
I often get clients which haven’t been seen, heard, witnessed and are in a fight/flight mode. As a professional, I have to find a way to support them out of that mode before we even can have a proper conversation at all.
And often they have a lot of triggers too, trust, love issues and so on.

I mean despite that I have supported a lot of clients and succeeded, despite all the hours spent on learning more to be a better professional, I judge myself when I fail to support one client. And I take another course so that I may support that type of client better next time. And honestly, if a client doesn’t follow my advices and the people around the client go against my advices, then I should accept that I did the best I could.

And it seems easy to just play the narcissist card on every person who aren’t perfect or which are fighting their own inner issues.
What are the true criteria to be a narcissist?
A person who easily finds your flaws and errors and use them against you ? And equal much finds everything else about you and play evil puppeteer with it?
And you follow until you realise it and begin to set yourself free.