I don't feel safe here anymore

[GadAbout]

If I'm witness to a crime, I might say "the assailant was a tall black female, age about 30."

If I'm describing a lecturer, I might say "the speaker was a distinguished looking woman."

Context is everything.

 

[Juliettaa]

I often say "female" to mean both girls and women, such as when I say "female aspies". It feels awkward saying "girls and women" all the time. Same as when I say "male" to mean both boys and men.

I'd rather be called a female aspie than an aspie girl in view of the fact that I'm a woman, not a girl.

 

[the_tortoise]

I wasn't calling you out @the_tortoise, I thought your replies were respectful and took on board other perspectives, even if it wasn't something you'd thought about before.

I don't agree about intent being the only thing that matters. While I do agree that the "right" words can be used with ill-intent, I don't think that once something has been pointed out to someone as being not okay, them refusing to listen and breaking down the ways that actually it's fine and it's just semantics and you're being oversensitive is okay. But again, I was more talking about Judge's reply, which I see has now been edited.

I agree with you about intent.

I don't think intent is the only thing that matters, I didn't mean to imply that, I just think it's extremely important.

I am suspicious of people who claim to have only the best of intentions while refusing to ever even try to modify their language (I mean, I get the thing about "old habits die hard" but refusing is not the same as having difficulty); If you actually care about the feelings of others than why are you so resistant to modifying the words you use? What does it cost you? Why are your preferences or habits for word-choice more important than the other person's feelings/dignity? When someone is adamant that they be allowed to continue, unchallenged, to use a particular term that hurts the people it's applied to, it seems quite hypocritical and garbled to me when they claim that the words they use don't actually matter, only their good intent.....if it's true that the words don't matter, why is it such a big deal to use a different word? If intent is the most important thing, why would you not want to try to use a word that everyone will clearly interpret in the way you intend instead of one that more and more people will interpret in a way you do not intend? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Juliettaa]

If I'm witness to a crime, I might say "the assailant was a tall black female, age about 30."

If I'm describing a lecturer, I might say "the speaker was a distinguished looking woman."

Context is everything.

Interesting ........... your post could be deemed as racist being as the example criminal is black.

Where do we draw the line?

I know/assume you weren't being offensive and no offence has been taken but can you see how things can be misconstrued?

 

[Judge]

One thing to be mindful of is that online it's often difficult if not impossible to fully comprehend one's intent and context with words alone. This reminds me of the reality tv series "COPS". Where years ago the announcer would mention that "All suspects are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law".

What was of real notice weren't the words used, but rather how the announcer said it. Which so much sarcasm that even I could sense it. And what was most noticeable within the context of this thread is how the show's producers went on to redo the audio so the announcer sounded neutral instead of doubtful.

I can only say on my own behalf, when someone uses the word "female" alone, it doesn't instantly conjure up thoughts of misogyny, unless the poster in question has already overtly put such thoughts out there. Which on occasion has happened here. Though in most cases those personalities have moved on when they discover that such a perspective really isn't welcome here.

I also can't help but consider societal standards in terms of changing how we speak and conduct ourselves in terms of generally accepted forms of courtesy. With both law and culture, such things usually take the consensus of an overwhelming number of people to be acknowledged and practiced. And one other thing- a great span of time to observe that society is collectively evolving.

In essence such concerns and values are very important. However that they must be values held by the many- not by the few for them to become universally accepted. A social and political dynamic that is understandably difficult at times for both individuals and social minorities to deal with. Something we on the spectrum struggle with most every day. I respect what the OP is saying, however I also feel that I must mitigate it given the social and political realities of our time.

I suppose what concerns me most is that IMO such distinctions are the type that encourage those who fundamentally oppose political correctness on general principle alone. I also respect a certain sense of political correctness as a matter of basic civility- equally on general principle. But also recognize that we risk losing it when we apply it to extremes recognized by only a few rather than the many. Especially given the trend of our highest court which has reduced the standards of what used to constitute a "clear and present danger" in favor of nearly unabashed free speech to a point of overt prejudice, allowed to fester as long as it doesn't constitute "an imminent, lawless action". Constitutional free speech has been broadened to the point of being quite intimidating at times. Far beyond the point of being offended by the term "female" where context is either uncertain or simply unknown.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

The word itself is not offensive, however, I could be wrong but I think it has something to do with some of the fringe groups that have popped up over the internet. I'm not here to discuss politics, so you can research that yourself if you wish. These groups take misogyny to an absolute different level. Women are never talked about as humans. "Female" is one way of doing this, however it doesn't stop there. They have even molded this into other words because it just wasn't dehumanizing enough. There is much celebration of violence against women in these places and if you find yourself using any of their rhetoric, intentionally or otherwise, it's likely best not to.

 

[Judge]

The word itself is not offensive, however, I could be wrong but I think it has something to do with some of the fringe groups that have popped up over the internet. I'm not here to discuss politics, so you can research that yourself if you wish. These groups take misogyny to an absolute different level. Women are never talked about as humans. "Female" is one way of doing this, however it doesn't stop there. They have even molded this into other words because it just wasn't dehumanizing enough. There is much celebration of violence against women in these places and if you find yourself using any of their rhetoric, intentionally or otherwise, it's likely best not to.

I've been in this community for several years. As I posted earlier, such persons who hold such views don't last very long here. While such behavior is quickly noticed, it never lasts long enough to be really problematic IMO. Not to mention that the mods have always been effective at policing such personalities.

I'd hate to see much of anyone begin branding members as misogynists based only on the words they choose, where intent isn't abundantly clear. That would be as unfair and prejudicial as those who speak disparagingly of entire genders or sexual orientations.

Though in the event anyone perceives such negative perspectives, it never hurts to privately discuss them with our mods rather than debate them in an open thread. After all, the posted terms and conditions are rather explicit about this. Though it is our mods who ultimately have the last word over such concerns.

 

[oregano]

The issue is likely the tendency in the USA in general and some parts of the internet in particular as of recently to split the terms "woman" and "female" and assign different connotations to each. In extreme-right circles, for example, "man" and "woman" are implied to carry a certain connotation of superiority as opposed to "male" and "female". And then there's the related "manosphere" internet subculture which is an offshoot of the extreme right where, as noted, "female" is used to disparage women, to reduce them to their sex organs, as part of the general extreme misogyny/woman hatred epidemic in the manosphere. A lot of auties are likely not plugged in to internet culture and subcultures due to our tendency to isolate ourselves online like we do offline, and thus many of us likely don't know about the different meanings that "woman" and "female" have acquired.

 

[Vindicator Phoenix]

Unfortunately, I just cannot understand why all of a sudden "women" have been demoted to "females".

I agree with you completely, Pinkie B. The term, "female," is quite derogatory, as it emphasizes that a woman is just her anatomy, which is false. Women are every bit as good as men.

I appreciate you, for drawing attention to the negative connotations associated with the latter term.

It's common, in the autism community, to offend people unintentionally, which doesn't excuse the pain it causes. A little nudge, in the right direction, helps us improve our conduct.

You're helping to educate people on the social perceptions that words carry. By starting this thread, you've helped to educate us on respectful diction. You're a positive crusader, on our site, and we'd love to see you again.

 

[Isadoorian]

So....the gist of what you're saying is... you're threatening to leave the site over people using the word Female? Is that correct?

You've been a great addition to the site, but if you want to leave over a word that represents a certain gender well... I don't know what to say as I'm just absolutely stunned that this is such a huge deal for some reason...

Also, if you have an issue with someone or a certain post, why not Report it? There's a Report button on every post and comment made. You can also PM one of the Staff about it.

But alas, if this is what you want to do, this is your decision to make.

 

[Starfire]

I’m amazed that something like using woman or female interchangeably has caused so much debate and controversy!

There is another thread on this forum where it has been suggested people with addiction problems deserve to be killed, beaten into a coma by baseball bat wielding possies, have poisonous spiders thrown on them, be attacked by dogs and are called cockroaches etc etc.

As so few people have commented it’s interesting to see where people’s priorities are. It must be more important not to mistakenly hurt someone’s feelings, than to suggest killing thousands of people because they have the misfortune of being addicted to drugs.

 

[GadAbout]

Interesting ........... your post could be deemed as racist being as the example criminal is black.

Where do we draw the line?

I know/assume you weren't being offensive and no offence has been taken but can you see how things can be misconstrued?

I figured someone would pick up on that. Okay, so the lecturer was a distinguished looking black woman and the suspect was a tall, Caucasian female, age about 30. Is that better? Seriously, if you're giving a description to the police and you don't mention race, isn't that a bit ineffective?

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

must be more important not to mistakenly hurt someone’s feelings, than to suggest killing thousands of people because they have the misfortune of being addicted to drugs.

Good example of the personal versus the general.

There is a poisonous argument outside of this forum and gaining traction I the wider world regarding who has the rights to call themselves a 'woman'
Arising from biological sex based rights versus that of a persons right to be respected for the gender they present as.
The political solution is ot find a way to respect both peoples rights.
A polarising argument, with lots of horror stories within that will be revealed in time.

Best left of the forum,but perhaps the use of the word woman was relevant to that debate.

What a world we live in star fire.

 

[Starfire]

Good example of the personal versus the general.

There is a poisonous argument outside of this forum and gaining traction I the wider world regarding who has the rights to call themselves a 'woman'
Arising from biological sex based rights versus that of a persons right to be respected for the gender they present as.
The political solution is ot find a way to respect both peoples rights.
A polarising argument, with lots of horror stories within that will be revealed in time.

Best left of the forum,but perhaps the use of the word woman was relevant to that debate.

What a world we live in star fire.

Indeed, I despair! It’s no wonder people use drugs to try and cope with this insanity.

 

[shysnail]

The tone on this thread is really off-putting in a lot of places. It seems there's a whole lot of "oh it's just political correctness gone MAD!" rather than actually trying to listen to and understand people with a different point of view. Either that or people have completely misunderstood what is being said. No one is saying you can't use the word "female" in any contexts. What they're saying is that sometimes the word female is used in ways to dehumanize women, and that should not be acceptable. If you don't understand, why not try and listen and learn rather than be like "lol this is so stupid"?

 

[Tom]

If you want an option @Pinkie B, you can put the people that you would rather not see posts from, cause you stress, etc, on your 'Ignore list'. That way you can continue interacting with others.

 

[WildCat]

Did you ask the person or people in question about this, and if so what was their intent?

I highly doubt it's to offend anyone, but if it's bothering you that much you should probably try that.

 

[Judge]

If you want an option @Pinkie B, you can put the people that you would rather not see posts from, cause you stress, etc, on your 'Ignore list'. That way you can continue interacting with others.

Indeed. The best alternative if one chooses not to engage a moderator over any perception of the terms and conditions possibly being violated.

Keeping in mind though that the mods are reasonable folks and are willing to discuss such things even on a theoretical level, as long as it remains a private message.

 

[Catana]

Tsk, tsk, where are the gender police when you need them to protect tender sensibilities?

 

[shysnail]

One thing I like about this thread is how it so perfectly demonstrates exactly what @Pinkie B was saying about this forum not being a safe space for women.