I don't trust people or life again.

[Fino]

I have found that some of the most judgmental people are those who loudly proclaim themselves to be pure and holy and that everybody else is a sinner doomed to Hell unless they follow the bloviator's extremely narrow view of Christ. In Matthew 5 Jesus labels as "hypocrites" "those who pray on street corners". And also keep in mind that there will be many false prophets before the Second Coming, those who loudly claim to be holy men but who are anything but. And IMO that doesn't just go for the guy up in front giving the sermon, but his deluded followers as well.

Linus Torvalds, the creator of the Linux operating system who later immigrated to America to work in Silicon Valley, once said that he found it extremely odd the way so many Americans are so eager to shove religion in people's faces. In Finland there's an official state church, but one's beliefs are one's personal business and are kept to oneself and one's family. In America you can walk down the main downtown corridor in any good sized city and get religious pamphlets shoved in your face and people going out of their way to "share the Gospel" with you.

Jesus told his followers to pray alone in dark rooms. The fact that so much of American Christianity is the direct opposite makes me question how true to Christ the whole mess really is.

If I'm reading between the lines correctly, it seems as if you heard people cussing in a church. I agree that that is extremely disrespectful.

It looks like perhaps you've confused "prayer" with "sharing the gospel," which are not the same thing.

Matthew 24:14
“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

Psalms 96:3 NKJV
“Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all peoples.”

Mark 16:15 NKJV
“And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”

Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Give praise to the Lord, proclaim His name; make known among the nations what He has done (Psalm 105:1, New International Version).

2. Philemon 1:6 and I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ.

There's a lot more, I just got tired.

 

[Fino]

Recently a dying Methodist congregation in a ghetto area here sold their church-to an Islamic congregation. The Muslims tried to plaster over the big METHODIST sign engraved in the side of the building, and when that didn't work as planned they put a huge sign on top of it with the name of their mosque. They ripped out all the pews, of course, and hauled away the wood to the dump.

But I think the prize for weirdest reappropriation to a mosque is a mosque on Sacramento's South Side that was built around 1970 as a discount retailer called Best Products that was similar in concept to Target or Walmart. Best went out of business in the early 80s and the building went through several different owners until it finally became a mosque. From temple to consumerism to a gathering place for followers of a religion that openly disdains materialism (and is far more serious about it than Christianity). I think that takes the cake.

I wonder if some of those centuries-old churches in England that are sold to Muslims retain at least some of their ornate interiors. Muslims don't like that sort of thing, and most mosques in the West tend to be very plain and utilitarian inside.

Isn't it normal to openly disdain materialism? Is materialism not objectively bad?
Or is it the philosophy your refer to?

 

[Autistamatic]

RFrom temple to consumerism to a gathering place for followers of a religion that openly disdains materialism (and is far more serious about it than Christianity). I think that takes the cake.
.

There's something quite beautiful in that I think. Turning a commercial building into a place of worship How appropriate. Turning a place of selfish greed into a centre of selfless kindness. Thanks for that - it instils a little extra spark of hope in my soul. You've made my day!

Yes most of the churches that have become mosques have been treated very respectfully by the Islamic congregations that have replaced the lapsed Christians that vacated them (those I've seen in the media mainly). Pews, of course, have to be removed because to Moslems, kneeling before their God is a mark of their respect and you can't do that on wooden benches Also any leftover iconography has to be removed or covered for obvious reasons.
I've only been to a few Mosques (work related mainly, and only one of them in a former inner city church) but they are lovely, spiritual and kind places. I feel more accepted in them than most places. No judgement whatsoever.

Edit: My wife just reminded me of a property programme we watched a few weeks back wherein a Moslem congregation had bought a run down church and founded a Mosque there. They had to do some conversion work for obvious reasons, but they chose to cover the Christian symbols and icons with either panels or plaster of paris (not construction plaster).
The presenter asked about their unusual choice for construction because it actually cost them a significant sum to do it the way they did, what with custom moulds and highly skilled artisans to pay. Their answer? They wanted to preserve the building in it's original form should it ever be restored to it's original function as a Christian church. They wanted those possible future owners to know that they had respected what the building was originally and make restoration as easy as possible. THAT is what I call respect.

 

[Nauti]

"Forgive them, for they know not, what they do"
Jesus/Yesus/Yeshua

In other words, lots of people have been taught wrong things, so their behaviour reflects that, they aren't actually bad people, but they haven't been taught better, yet, so we should forgive them and realise that "It is better to take the log out of our own eye, rather than worry about the splinter in someone elses" This is about how it is better to focus on our own shortcomings than it is to get all judgey and uptight about other's perceived shortcomings.

It isn't empowering or useful, or helpful to focus on other people's behaviour, overall, because we can't change other people and make them act better, but we CAN address our own shortcomings and make the world a slightly better place by doing so. And he said LOG in our own eyes because he knew/knows that we are flawed, often erronous beings and we have A LOT of shortcomings and unloving behaviours to address, in general.

 

[Pats]

Recently a dying Methodist congregation in a ghetto area here sold their church-to an Islamic congregation. The Muslims tried to plaster over the big METHODIST sign engraved in the side of the building, and when that didn't work as planned they put a huge sign on top of it with the name of their mosque. They ripped out all the pews, of course, and hauled away the wood to the dump.

But I think the prize for weirdest reappropriation to a mosque is a mosque on Sacramento's South Side that was built around 1970 as a discount retailer called Best Products that was similar in concept to Target or Walmart. Best went out of business in the early 80s and the building went through several different owners until it finally became a mosque. From temple to consumerism to a gathering place for followers of a religion that openly disdains materialism (and is far more serious about it than Christianity). I think that takes the cake.

I wonder if some of those centuries-old churches in England that are sold to Muslims retain at least some of their ornate interiors. Muslims don't like that sort of thing, and most mosques in the West tend to be very plain and utilitarian inside.

Best and Brendle's - I remember them. I wouldn't consider them like Walmart or Target. They had jewelry, china, crystal, silver things for the household and baby things like strollers and stuff. You walked through the store, pulled of a tag with the number of the item you're going to purchase and someone would bring it out to the cashier and you pay for it. I remember you had to be 18 unless accompanied by a parent. I was carrying my baby, but had my mom not been with us, guess I couldn't have gone in. lol But I also remember when they went out of business because their closeout was great - got some really nice, expensive stuff real cheap. Matter of fact, I recently gave my son a set of crystal champagne glasses that I had gotten in their close out.

 

[Xerces Blue]

I consider most Religions to be nonsense.
The ones that survive have something decent to teach you but they come with a lot of faults.
from my view religions try to teach you how to not be a worthless human.

Here's my rules... not in any particular order.
Don't hurt people who don't try to hurt you.
Don't kill people if you don't have too.
If You don't want it happening to you don't do it to other people.
protect yourself and the people you love.

 

[Fino]

I consider most Religions to be nonsense.
The ones that survive have something decent to teach you but they come with a lot of faults.
from my view religions try to teach you how to not be a worthless human.

Here's my rules... not in any particular order.
Don't hurt people who don't try to hurt you.
Don't kill people if you don't have too.
If You don't want it happening to you don't do it to other people.
protect yourself and the people you love.

The problem with these beliefs, which may seem lovely on the surface, is when it comes to the differences between individuals.

How a person defines "trying to hurt you," may not be as obvious and objective as one may believe.

"If you have to," has the same problem. "I had to do it," might be a common reason for murder, and your response to them might be, "No, you didn't," but is it objective?

Sometimes something we wouldn't mind happening to us is terrible for another person. I've experienced this many times, so the "golden rule" is great but certainly doesn't cover everything.

And the "faults" you find with each religion are defined by you, I assume, so what that means is hard to say.

 

[Kayn-Ishmael]

You're a Christian? Why are you a Christian? How did you come across the information you know about Christianity? How do you know that the information you received is true? How is that distinct from the basis other religions use to claim their legitimacy? How do you know that you are correct in your religious beliefs and that people of other religions are wrong? If you had been born into an Islamic family in Iran, would you still be a Christian if you came across the information about Christianity? Is it possible that you're wrong?

It's like you're beginning with the proposition "There are magical little people." One group says "The magical little people are gnomes." Another group says "The magical little people are leprechauns." What basis is there for believing that there are magical little people at all?

Try to consider and re-consider these points. It would be a shame for you to propagate a delusional system of values that conflates morality with it's fiction. I've been culturally indoctrinated as a child to believe in things that only brought me neurosis and social isolation; i know how you feel. Don't advocate for cultural delusions just because it's "PC"; be honest with yourself.

As you examine each of the rules you’ve been living by, ask yourself: Are the rewards and punishments attached to the rules vague and intangible? Or do the rules point to specific happiness I can achieve or unhappiness I can avoid?

Truste me, that is going to free your conscious greatly. Let the self-righteous metaphysics and the lack of consistency for the politicians. Just ensure your happyness.

 

[Nauti]

You're a Christian? Why are you a Christian? How did you come across the information you know about Christianity? How do you know that the information you received is true? How is that distinct from the basis other religions use to claim their legitimacy? How do you know that you are correct in your religious beliefs and that people of other religions are wrong? If you had been born into an Islamic family in Iran, would you still be a Christian if you came across the information about Christianity? Is it possible that you're wrong?

It's like you're beginning with the proposition "There are magical little people." One group says "The magical little people are gnomes." Another group says "The magical little people are leprechauns." What basis is there for believing that there are magical little people at all?

Try to consider and re-consider these points. It would be a shame for you to propagate a delusional system of values that conflates morality with it's fiction. I've been culturally indoctrinated as a child to believe in things that only brought me neurosis and social isolation; i know how you feel. Don't advocate for cultural delusions just because it's "PC"; be honest with yourself.

As you examine each of the rules you’ve been living by, ask yourself: Are the rewards and punishments attached to the rules vague and intangible? Or do the rules point to specific happiness I can achieve or unhappiness I can avoid?

Truste me, that is going to free your conscious greatly. Let the self-righteous metaphysics and the lack of consistency for the politicians. Just ensure your happyness.

Who are you referring to here?

 

[Fino]

You're a Christian? Why are you a Christian? How did you come across the information you know about Christianity? How do you know that the information you received is true? How is that distinct from the basis other religions use to claim their legitimacy? How do you know that you are correct in your religious beliefs and that people of other religions are wrong? If you had been born into an Islamic family in Iran, would you still be a Christian if you came across the information about Christianity? Is it possible that you're wrong?

It's like you're beginning with the proposition "There are magical little people." One group says "The magical little people are gnomes." Another group says "The magical little people are leprechauns." What basis is there for believing that there are magical little people at all?

Try to consider and re-consider these points. It would be a shame for you to propagate a delusional system of values that conflates morality with it's fiction. I've been culturally indoctrinated as a child to believe in things that only brought me neurosis and social isolation; i know how you feel. Don't advocate for cultural delusions just because it's "PC"; be honest with yourself.

As you examine each of the rules you’ve been living by, ask yourself: Are the rewards and punishments attached to the rules vague and intangible? Or do the rules point to specific happiness I can achieve or unhappiness I can avoid?

Truste me, that is going to free your conscious greatly. Let the self-righteous metaphysics and the lack of consistency for the politicians. Just ensure your happyness.

You should read the Bible! It'll be fun!

 

[Kayn-Ishmael]

Who are you referring to here?

Sorry. I forgot to specify; i was only refering to the guy that created the thread - the one complaining about crises of faith. And, as it is evident, i only read the first post that OP made, so i don't know how relevant my post could've been.

 

[Fino]

Who are you referring to here?

I spent like five minutes wondering that!! Then I remembered the OP stated he's Christian and figured it was directed towards him.

But I imagine it could be directed at anyone who identifies with any religion.

They're all the same points and questions everyone argues though, so you could probably google for an answer rather than thinking of one yourself.

 

[Kayn-Ishmael]

You should read the Bible! It'll be fun!

I've been forced to read that book multiple times.

 

[Fino]

I've been forced to read that book multiple times.

You've read all 1,000+ pages multiple times??
Or you mean the same dozen parts multiple times?

 

[Kayn-Ishmael]

You've read all 1,000+ pages multiple times??
Or you mean the same dozen parts multiple times?

Yes, all the 1,000+ pages multiple times.

 

[Fino]

Yes, all the 1,000+ pages multiple times.

That sounds awful!
You must be quite familiar with it!

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Thanks to fellowship from the great Church I attend not that Alpha program which is not related to Trinity Grace Church and I don't attend anymore after the Pastor said to avoid itI am doing much better.

I am on about four groups. A prayer group 1, Bible Study Group 2, Thursday night dinner 1st week month 3, another dinner fellowship group 4 that I have not attended will this next Tuesday so yes dispite hearing swearing around non believers well one thorn at Alpha which I avoid and one crazy guy on the street screaming and swearing up a storm I am handling it with prayer and meditation.

I also still wear headphones out of choice since Aspies have really good hearing and the honking of car horns and EMS sirens bother me.

 

[oregano]

There's something quite beautiful in that I think. Turning a commercial building into a place of worship How appropriate. Turning a place of selfish greed into a centre of selfless kindness. Thanks for that - it instils a little extra spark of hope in my soul. You've made my day!

Yes most of the churches that have become mosques have been treated very respectfully by the Islamic congregations that have replaced the lapsed Christians that vacated them (those I've seen in the media mainly). Pews, of course, have to be removed because to Moslems, kneeling before their God is a mark of their respect and you can't do that on wooden benches Also any leftover iconography has to be removed or covered for obvious reasons.
I've only been to a few Mosques (work related mainly, and only one of them in a former inner city church) but they are lovely, spiritual and kind places. I feel more accepted in them than most places. No judgement whatsoever.

Edit: My wife just reminded me of a property programme we watched a few weeks back wherein a Moslem congregation had bought a run down church and founded a Mosque there. They had to do some conversion work for obvious reasons, but they chose to cover the Christian symbols and icons with either panels or plaster of paris (not construction plaster).
The presenter asked about their unusual choice for construction because it actually cost them a significant sum to do it the way they did, what with custom moulds and highly skilled artisans to pay. Their answer? They wanted to preserve the building in it's original form should it ever be restored to it's original function as a Christian church. They wanted those possible future owners to know that they had respected what the building was originally and make restoration as easy as possible. THAT is what I call respect.

The Muslims in the US seem to be rather kind people. A lot of the ones in Europe, however, seem to be far more judgmental and angry and into beheading everybody they don't like including fellow Muslims if those Muslims disagree with them even slightly.

I think the difference is that the Muslims in America are from the upper classes in their homelands, while the ones in Europe were from the bottom of their societies. Think of, say, the Unitarians vs. the "hillbilly Christians" of the US Deep South. Same book, same god, very different outcomes. The difference IOW is socioeconomic, not religious.

It's been noted that many top jihadis have advanced degrees, but few mention that these people got advanced degrees at the urging of their govts and then found absolutely no jobs and themselves back in the slums they came from. They latched onto extreme faith out of rage and a sense of betrayal. It's sort of like white American kids graduating with degrees and student loans they can't pay, and then becoming far left communists because abolishing money would also get rid of their loans.

I noticed that the former Methodist church I mentioned has been modified only slightly on the outside, of course I don't know what it looks like inside. The building dates from the early 1950s and thus doesn't have a lot of really ornate features.

Another problem that Muslims face in converting former churches is the requirement to face Mecca while praying. I know that the old Roman Catholic cathedral in Benghazi, Libya, was abandoned because it was built in such a way that facing Mecca during prayer would be very difficult. The cathedral in Tripoli, however, was able to be used as a mosque. The church I mentioned is built in a way that facing Mecca would be doable, albeit it would result in the congregants kneeling diagonally in the sanctuary.

That old Best store, however, is built in such a way that making it into a mosque was simple. The problem it has is that it is in a heavily trafficked area and thus tends to attract vandals. There have been instances of bigots setting Qurans on fire in front, in one case a Quran was slathered in lard and attached to the fence. Fortunately there is a big parking lot between it and the street.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Could any building be converted to a place of worship? Trinity Grace Church I attend they use a public school since it is available on Sunday it's fine with me it's still a place of worship.